What large pack do you use for extended missions?

alfred10

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Jan 16, 2010
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I was wondering what size pack you use for an extended mission. I just bought a Kifaru EMR which is 7500 CUI. I will only load it to 4,000 CUI but like the ease of packing. Its a pain to pack your stuff in a smaller pack. I find it easier to take the same ammount into a larger pack. This allows me to compress and load it faster. Also gives me the option to short term carry more.

What pack do you use and why?
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

It is very hard not to pack too much stuff in a pack. It seems you always find a something to put in it. If you want a smaller load get a smaller pack. That way you can only stuff so much in it.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ALICE Pack, Large.

If you can't fit it in, or hang it on the Large ALICE then you probably can't hump it for any real distance.

Of course it's not anywhere near as "tacticool" as other options. But it's cheap and it works.</div></div> Definitely agree there, and they last forever.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ALICE Pack, Large.

If you can't fit it in, or hang it on the Large ALICE then you probably can't hump it for any real distance.

Of course it's not anywhere near as "tacticool" as other options. But it's cheap and it works. </div></div>

If you have ever used a really nice pack the correct way, you would realize the error of what you speak.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

Waht kind of missions? I usually only venture from the <span style="text-decoration: line-through">hotel room</span> forward tactical base <span style="text-decoration: line-through">to the range or match venue</span> outside the wire for a day or so at a time.
SpecOps T.H.E. Pack or Eberlestock Gunslinger have been good for me, and I can carry enough gear in either for a 3 day <span style="text-decoration: line-through">weekend</span> patrol.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ALICE Pack, Large.

If you can't fit it in, or hang it on the Large ALICE then you probably can't hump it for any real distance.

Of course it's not anywhere near as "tacticool" as other options. But it's cheap and it works. </div></div>

If you have ever used a really nice pack the correct way, you would realize the error of what you speak. </div></div>

If you knew the uses the poster puts his geart to you would realize the error of what you type.....
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Jong said:
If you knew the uses the poster puts his gear to you would realize the error of what you type.....</div></div>

they never realize
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ALICE Pack, Large.

If you can't fit it in, or hang it on the Large ALICE then you probably can't hump it for any real distance.

Of course it's not anywhere near as "tacticool" as other options. But it's cheap and it works. </div></div>

If you have ever used a really nice pack the correct way, you would realize the error of what you speak. </div></div>

If you knew the uses the poster puts his geart to you would realize the error of what you type..... </div></div>

Didn't make any error whatsoever.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

I still use a Lowe Vector like this.

02290a.jpg


It can be cinched down to take ALICE-size loads, or expand out to take bulky winter equipment.

You can carry spine, hip, and knee-wrecking cargo weights with a higher-riding and more comfortable suspension.

ALICE, while cheap and durable, has wrecked more Special Forces spines (besides jumping) than any other piece of gear besides body armor. It balances poorly (when stuffed to over-capacity), the frame is relatively fragile (Bent frame? Just DX it at S4 or get a new one off-post).

From someone intimately familiar with The Green Wart and The Dome of Obedience.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

I am pretty sure LW knows alittle about humping gear.

I have long had a love/hate thing with the ALICE.

They are damn near indestructable,cheap and can pack almost anything that you could fit in them.

I still use one for work and love it.

However I a not wearimg an LBE anymore so all that weight on my shoulders is unnecisary.


Mystery Ranch makes some nice stuff and with the Wolfpack you can add 1900 to the main packs 4100.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wirehand</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am pretty sure LW knows alittle about humping gear.

I have long had a love/hate thing with the ALICE.

They are damn near indestructable,cheap and can pack almost anything that you could fit in them.

I still use one for work and love it.

However I a not wearimg an LBE anymore so all that weight on my shoulders is unnecisary.


Mystery Ranch makes some nice stuff and with the Wolfpack you can add 1900 to the main packs 4100.
</div></div>

Really he does? The guy just bought a Kifaru and he is recommending an alice pack. That is like someone talking about federal gold medal match and then coming on here and recommending some random ammo they bought at Walmart.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have ever used a really nice pack the correct way, you would realize the error of what you speak. </div></div>

You are right brother, I don't know anything about rucks, or living out of them for weeks at a time. Or packing tons of radio gear, batteries, water, etc. I haven't blown the seams out of "really nice" rucks only to return to "tried and true".

My mistake.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ALICE Pack, Large.

If you can't fit it in, or hang it on the Large ALICE then you probably can't hump it for any real distance.

Of course it's not anywhere near as "tacticool" as other options. But it's cheap and it works. </div></div>

If you have ever used a really nice pack the correct way, you would realize the error of what you speak. </div></div>

If you knew the uses the poster puts his geart to you would realize the error of what you type..... </div></div>

Didn't make any error whatsoever.
</div></div>

I'd say LW has you beat in the practical shooting and gear selections. He is more then qualified to spread his opinion about choices on packs. Watch who you disrespect around here, they might save your life one day.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

Well lets see the OP wanted a larger pack ( the ALICE is a cavern)
The OP is going for a short term haul ( ALICE again).

A grab and go senario is what the OP is after so ALICE is a fine choice.

The OP never mentioned pleasurable hauling.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

Like Most Marine grunts im sure LW is partial to his Alice packs.
Im pretty partial to my Tactical Tailor Malice pack.Its definitely an improvement over the standard Alice pack, material and design wise. They are great for strapping a rifle onto also.. and a little cheaper than the excellent LBT ruck..
For serious mountainous terrain an internal frame mountain pack is preferred. I use this and it holds the weight closer to the body for better balance.
http://kitup.military.com/2009/07/arcteryx-tango-pack.html
before that used a Lowe Alpine Saracen for a few years and that was GTG too but I feel the Arcteryx design is better and more comfortable..

THe Alice types are great for hauling shit from point A to B but you better have a strong back and ankles because loaded past 80 pounds its not very stable over very rugged terrain. but it keeps your back cool because of the big space between your back and the pack. also allows the use of wearing heavy body armor. and the short design allows firing from the prone with the pack on.
The Mountain style packs while comfortable mostly doesnt lend itself well to hard body armor and can get hot and the tall design makes it hard to shoot while prone..But its way more comfortable.allows faster movement over rough terrain becuase its hugs closer to the body and balances heavy loads better.
Why limit yourself to only one pack. terrain and mission should dictate what pack will be used.

 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

I will admit that the ALICE as it comes from Supply leaves a lot to be desired. I acquired some straps and a waist belt from one of the early MOLLE rucks and installed them on my Mountain Ruck. It makes it quite a bit more comfortable. Sometime soon I am going to swap out the ALICE frame for the Down East frame I have sitting here and see how that goes.

I don't hump a lot in rucks anymore. Most of the weight on my back these days is in the form of ballistic armor.

Bear in mind that a lot of the civilian type, military colored packs use lighter fabric for an overall lighter weight. This is fine until you carry stuff with hard edges (radios and batteries are a HUGE offender). Then they like to chew through the material or over-stress seams. Higher end niche gear makers will use the fancy design features of the civilian packs, but do so with heavier materials and reinforcement in the right places. I have been researching my own pack design so I have been looking closely at some of this stuff.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338$</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If you have ever used a really nice pack the correct way, you would realize the error of what you speak. </div></div>

If you knew the uses the poster puts his geart to you would realize the error of what you type..... </div></div>

Didn't make any error whatsoever.
</div></div>

I'd say LW has you beat in the practical shooting and gear selections. He is more then qualified to spread his opinion about choices on packs. Watch who you disrespect around here, they might save your life one day. </div></div>

Actually it would be the other way around since I used to be a corpsman and am now a medic in Iraq. So I guess the only way you get respect around here is to put some crap in your signature block about stuff you used to do.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Actually it would be the other way around since I used to be a corpsman and am now a medic in Iraq. So I guess the only way you get respect around here is to put some crap in your signature block about stuff you used to do.</div></div>


NOPE, around here you earn respect by proving yourself, not talking shit about some who already has... and being a medic in Iraq, I'm sure humping your pack around the aid station, or to the vehicle for a convoy, has given you untold experience...

why don't you STFU and lean a little from the guys that have been out in the field for extended periods
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

Dude..come on..was that necessary? We are on the same side no?
And Ive worked with Medics/Corpsman/PJs that carry carry rediculous loads..I think anyone thats humped a ruck for a living has something to contribute to this thread..
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

I think we can all learn a little from each other.

Just remember that because someone has a difference of opinion doesn't make them wrong.

Some of our Docs humped just as much as we did if they went out with us. Although the battlefield has changed a bit now and there is quite a bit of difference in gear between combat patrols in Iraq and bugging out of a US city.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

I have an allice but it wont hold enough for me. I use a Kifaru EMR for 1-2 weeks of gear and a Kifaru navigator for a 3 day pack. Do any of you guys not like Kifaru?
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

Remember what most call "THE" ALICE pack is actually the ALICE Pack "Medium". The Large ALICE carries quite a bit more. You can visually tell the difference by the three snap pockets above the front pocket.

Most units doing long range patrolling migrated to the large because once you get mission essential gear for a few days you don't have any room for chow or snivel gear.

If you can't pack enough for a week in the field with a Large ALICE then you are carrying the wrong stuff.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

Why is it everything in here turn's in to a who has the biggest baddest cock on the block conest..?

Why doesn't the dude that started this thread specify what an extended mission is? I'm sure there is more experienced in here than I am, but the more shit your carrying the more your going to sweat and go through the most important thing you need; water. Which isn't a problem if your in the right area.

And wtf's wrong with a standard issue pack? Hold's a lot of shit and I humped with one for years before it was finally replaced.

If you want to be all tacticool than buy your 5000 ci. hippy ruck, that's going to carry way more shit than you'll ever need than get it. I would love to pack one of monstrosities up for someone and see them make it 10 mile's.

MS
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

The OP is looking for a pack to use as a "bugout bag" when "TSHTF". He has the desire to be prepared for "TEOTWAWKI", but not yet the knowledge to properly do so, or the the realization that there are some things he can't be ready for.

To the OP. If you already have a Kifaru EMR, why are you asking what folks here would use for a never-come-home bag? You already have a good one. (I know, I have a Pointman and a ZXR, although neither is part of a plan to walk away from my home in the middle of a disaster.) Rock what you have, train to use it effectively, and learn more about the percieved threat you are preparing for, as in how to survive it long-term. Here's a clue- you'll need friends more than high-speed gear.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

I started with just Web gear, boot string's for lashing and a Butt pack. My first "Alice" was great I could get everything I thought I needed in it. Soon as I got back from the first 2 week gig with that Alice, I pulled my old gear back out.

Lite was right for me. I always made do with what I could get lashed and packed, I did carry extra, double M14 mag pouch's, for 0200 snivel gear. An extra poncho and liner went everywhere as well.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

I have absolutely no idea what your guy's love with the alice is all about. I really don't care how many days you have lived out of one. I have spent a few out of one myself and if I never see another alice pack again I won't shed one tear. The alice pack was made by the lowest bidder, and I have seen many frames break. The only advantages I can see in an alice pack is that you can get one dirt cheap and if you need to jump out of a plane it is certified to do so, not sure if you can jump out with a Kifaru.

If you have never tried a Kifaru, then you have no idea what you are missing. Much better quality, fit, comfort, and am fairly certain will outlast a cheaply made alice pack by a long ways. There are other well made packs out there mystery ranch being another one that I also have that are way nicer and more dependable than any alice pack that I have ever seen.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

Man you really are clueless. I really dont think Alice packs are even issued anymore. What are issued are newer improved versions of Alice packs made by TAG.LondonBridge.Tactical Tailor.And these are far from being cheap packs. As far as your Kifaru. Try wearing it over hard armor or using it for amphibious op. and its fucking heavy..even heavier than the old Gregory Spear pack. But yeah Kifaru and Mystery ect ect suit the needs of civvies very well..
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

I used a blackhawk SOF through sniper school and on stateside training, this had the ALICE frame and a highspeed gear (mean gene) Allypad. It worked fine. In Afghanistan I used a Spec ops "The Pack" on the Alice Frame with Allypad. On a standard 4 day op the average load was at least 135 pounds (only had a 3 man team). The black hawk ruck was overkill and to large (would have been useful in winter months). Going over hard terrain you learn real quick you do not need half the shit you think you need. The only thing that was not Ammunition, explosive, weapons, water (4 gal),4 MRE's or radio related was a poncho and liner. That is the only completely non mission essential gear that I carried. Don't get caught up in what you are able to fit in a pack and concentrate on what you can comfortably carry and what you can live without. I am not familiar with Kirfu's equipment, however there is a HUGE difference between the operations of a Corpsman and a Sniper and I will just leave it at that.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

I blew a disc out with my ALICE pack on the standard metal frame, recently upgraded to the DownEastInc ALICE compatible composite frame, it's a TONNE comfier. You can really feel it flex with you as you move along.

Having said that, it's still an uncomfortable piece of shit compared to some other civi frame style mil packs I've had.

All the pressure is transferred directly down and BACK on your shoulders with the rest being pushed right into your lumbar spine, ready beat you into submission.

I'm bitter, ALICE should die.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

I camped for years out of an ALICE pack. Medium for short stuff, Large for longer trips of a week or more. Then I found Kifaru. I can pack all I need for a week or longer in my ZXR, and it seems to be as durable a pack as a person can get, plus being a near pleasure to carry. I could be wrong, but I tend to think 1000D Cordura beats the old ALICE bag material for durability, and I would say this goes for hauling anything but 16th century Katanas minus sheath. Stronger is stronger, no matter what you put in the pack. For every soldier who hates Kifaru, I suspect there are three more who swear by it. If you like the ALICE pack, no problem, to each his own. But those of us who run Kifarus, both in and out of the services, are not idiots or mama's boys for running something other than the ALICE. Even Uncle Sugar has move on, in large part, although not necessarily up, in many cases.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think we can all learn a little from each other.

Just remember that because someone has a difference of opinion doesn't make them wrong.
</div></div>

+1

That's the problem with all forums! To many people are to quick to run their mouths or offer up a smart ass grammar correction to other members. As a result many threads like this one are ruined and off topic.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

Quick question, as an old(er) user of the large ALICE when I was in, I always heard it was made the way to keep the ability to see over it when glancing behind you. Anyone using one of the updated packs that are taller than shoulder height ever have a problem with visability? Or does the much improved load-bearing characteristics blow that capability away?
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

For me, the Kifaru Pointman (slightly larger capacity than Med. ALICE) is below my shoulder. The ZXR(Lg. ALICE capacity) is slightly above shoulder height. Neither affects peripheral vision over the shoulder. The MMR I used to have did, slightly. Never bought an EMR, partly because I don't need that much capacity, but also because it would block my rearward view. Most I.F. packs in the civilian market, and a lot of the military ones do the same.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

As LoneWolf points out, there are differences between missions...
I see people hauling around rucks with straps and buckles flying everywhere on "missions" where a regular deployment bag with a shoulder strap would work way better...

When moving around,however,especially in more remote areas, possibly skiing, riding snowmobiles, crossing rivers etc, a tight pack sitting real solidly to the body is great.
To maintain balance and comfort a high center of gravity on the pack, with weight distributed nicely between shoulders and hips, is a good thing.

I would like to see a pack with the following;
-a state-of-the art carry system with aluminum support frame, all padding covered with "breathing" soft mesh or "mesh-surface" material..hard to explain really, sorry
-wide waist belt adjustable in height relative to the frame and rotating left/right to allow bending sideways at the hip, solid D-rings and attachment points.
-wide well padded shoulder straps with a common padded connection point to the frame, adjustable in height, tube tunnel for camelbak in both straps, plenty of D-rings and/or attachment points (MOLLE?) on straps, lower part 2" wide (hate those flimsy 1" lower straps on many packs)
-YKK zippers with large teeth
-all high quality aluminum buckles everywhere
-possible to open the lower part from the rear by means of zipper and buckles (for extra retention)
-2 side pockets attached with MOLLE (zippers break...)
-large external lid pocket attached with MOLLE, smaller internal lid pocket.
-MOLLE pockets can be removed to allow external gear or thrown together as a makeshift e&e-bag, some strap on the ruck should double as strap for this type of use.
-Internal waterproof divider, large enough to allow use as one compartment but as things get wet they can be stuffed behind this keeping the rest dry. Possibly be able to tighten this up with paracord and a locking buckle.
-snow lock under the lid, also tighten with paracord, as the regular compression cord.
-as waterproof as possible, with one internal waterproof compartment complete with rubberized zipper (drysuit type)
-possible to compress the lower part of the ruck when not fully loaded to distribute weight higher instead of forming a clump at the bottom.

In general designed to survive at all temperatures and all conditions;heat, sand, snow, frozen to a chunk of ice (try to rope your gear across a river wintertime and you will see what I mean...),salt water etc.
In addition, the belt should be equipped with buckles to quick-attach leg straps and thereby form a climbing harness, the waist belt with buckles would have to be solid enough and the pack equipped with a quick/emergency release to dump the pack itself if falling and needing to drop weight.
Before you laugh; when crossing glaciers,rivers or otherwise moving around in other interesting places a climbing harness is required or at least a great asset, and a waste of space for the rest of the hike.
If taking a fall there is a great chance one would have to drop the pack anyway so that would make no difference at all.

Another thing is that if a plate carrier/vest with built in retention and suspension system (e.g.Archangel/Crye) had been developed, the pack could be quick-attached directly to the carrier with the standalone carry system removed.

Just something I have been thinking about anyway...feel free to use ideas (and give me a discont when they reach the shelves)
smile.gif


John - out
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

I have to agree w/ my fellow Marine on this if you cant get it in or on a large alice you proably shouldnt have it. But as always the mission dictates. I can say from experiance if setup correctly and loaded right the large alice w/ the external aluminuim frame is very comfortable, and is tougher than nails. There is also a lot to be said for a external frame pack , they some times come in very handy!

However there are some realy nice pack out on the market now. Good luck with your selection. My only advice is if you are planning on REALY using the pack load it heavier than you expect will be your normal load and wear it everywhere! By that I mean get use to it before it time to depend on it.
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Waht kind of missions? I usually only venture from the <span style="text-decoration: line-through">hotel room</span> forward tactical base <span style="text-decoration: line-through">to the range or match venue</span> outside the wire for a day or so at a time.
SpecOps T.H.E. Pack or Eberlestock Gunslinger have been good for me, and I can carry enough gear in either for a 3 day <span style="text-decoration: line-through">weekend</span> patrol. </div></div>

funny as shit!
 
Re: What large pack do you use for extended missions?

Im a Scout Sniper in Afghanistan and I use an ALICE. I have a bunch of different packs and rucks, but I ALWAYS end up going back to the ALICE. Depending on mission durations, Ill either use the small ALICE or large mountain ALICE. Now that its getting cold, Ill probably have to use the larger one exlusively.

Wearing a pack over body armor always sucks, no matter what pack you choose. I havent found a comfortable pack to wear over body armor. When carrying the m40a5 T boned over the pack, you do want stability when traveling over heinous terrain with no illumination, and jumping over deep canals. If I didnt think the ALICE pack was perfect for my current missions, I wouldnt use it. Is it the most comfortable pack, no, but like I said, with body armor, no pack is comfortable. The only thing I changed out is a nice set of shoulder straps. The large bulky padded kidney pads dont work, while they may be comfortable, they dont sit well with armor on. And shoulder pads need to be relatively thin as well, because if you get hit moving to your hide site, its impossible to shoot your m4 with bulky pads worn over body armor. Any types of rucks that have either bulky shoulder or kidney pads do not meet mission requirements for me.