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What methods do you use for truing 22lr DOPE?
- Thread starter J_D
- Start date
I do it exactly the same way lots of people do their centerfire rifles.
I take a full sized IPSC and either paint a crisp, horizontal line in the middle, or put a piece of thin, blue painters tape in the middle.
Then I put it out at 125 yards, dial, fire ten shots, and confirm where I'm hitting above or below the line. Then I do the same at 175, and on out to 250 yards. Keep a record of how this diverges from your solver, and you will have your corrections and trued dope.
As always, environmentals do matter (especially temperature) so record everything. Don't be shocked if it's different in different conditions. 40gr .22s get knocked around by everything.
I take a full sized IPSC and either paint a crisp, horizontal line in the middle, or put a piece of thin, blue painters tape in the middle.
Then I put it out at 125 yards, dial, fire ten shots, and confirm where I'm hitting above or below the line. Then I do the same at 175, and on out to 250 yards. Keep a record of how this diverges from your solver, and you will have your corrections and trued dope.
As always, environmentals do matter (especially temperature) so record everything. Don't be shocked if it's different in different conditions. 40gr .22s get knocked around by everything.
That depends. I’ve always found playing with MV is easier than trying to change the BC when truing the solver. Some of them you can plug in the true values and they’ll adjust themselves…. Mine doesn’t work that way, it I’ve always believed the solver was to get you in the neighborhood, but DOPE should be the values off which you shoot. IMHO
I use StrelockPro and true the velocity. If you have very good velocity data at several different temperatures for the ammo you are using, then true the BC instead. I got a sound BC from one of my data obsessed friends and don’t have super sound velocity data so that drives my dope collection.
Kestrel 5700 Elite w/ AB
Trash Data in means Garbage Data Out.
Assuming you have correct Velocity, Zero Distance, Scope Height over Bore and ammo BC as close as possible this is what I do as well as others in my area.
50y Zero. target w/ water mark at 100 and verify that dial (1.75 @ 88* is mine ). I will dial 1.8 and verify its about 1 bullet width high. If its not adjust the Cal DSF in the kestrel from Near to Far w/ 6 inputs max. Next yardage is 150. Since and repeat. I will do this out to 400 if possible. It has worked well for me. I have done this with 1 profile from 250 IN & second profile from 250 OUT and that works just as well. There are enough drag models in Applied Ballistics to get you REAL Close on BC in the beginning they there is no need to tweak it.
A couple of guys around me verify zero as above at 50y then go straight to 200 and do a Muzzle Velocity Calibration ( Cal MV ). Adjust MV until it gives you the proper solution at 200y and verify it at 25y increments from there into 25y. Then from 200 and beyond is back to a Cal DSF as above.
Just remember large target and waterline painted on it. Example picture is of my CF at 1080y.
Trash Data in means Garbage Data Out.
Assuming you have correct Velocity, Zero Distance, Scope Height over Bore and ammo BC as close as possible this is what I do as well as others in my area.
50y Zero. target w/ water mark at 100 and verify that dial (1.75 @ 88* is mine ). I will dial 1.8 and verify its about 1 bullet width high. If its not adjust the Cal DSF in the kestrel from Near to Far w/ 6 inputs max. Next yardage is 150. Since and repeat. I will do this out to 400 if possible. It has worked well for me. I have done this with 1 profile from 250 IN & second profile from 250 OUT and that works just as well. There are enough drag models in Applied Ballistics to get you REAL Close on BC in the beginning they there is no need to tweak it.
A couple of guys around me verify zero as above at 50y then go straight to 200 and do a Muzzle Velocity Calibration ( Cal MV ). Adjust MV until it gives you the proper solution at 200y and verify it at 25y increments from there into 25y. Then from 200 and beyond is back to a Cal DSF as above.
Just remember large target and waterline painted on it. Example picture is of my CF at 1080y.
I shoot it at a target until I get to the bullseye, then I document how many MILs it took.
The ONLY way to actually verify your dope at distance...Is to actually shoot the weapon at that distance.
For example, my dope chart for my CA Ranger 22 says it needs 5.02 MILs to get to 200 from my 100 yard zero with CCI SV... But some days I actually have to dial 5.1 or 5.2 MILs to get it zero'd due to barometric pressure changes, weather, wind, gravity, etc...
I guess I wasn’t clear, I meant to state to the Kestrel. I understand shooting is the only method to get true data, but the Kestrel is off at times, and I know there are a few people who never touch MV and only adjust BC, vs some people that do both.I shoot it at a target until I get to the bullseye, then I document how many MILs it took.
The ONLY way to actually verify your dope at distance...Is to actually shoot the weapon at that distance.
For example, my dope chart for my CA Ranger 22 says it needs 5.02 MILs to get to 200 from my 100 yard zero with CCI SV... But some days I actually have to dial 5.1 or 5.2 MILs to get it zero'd due to barometric pressure changes, weather, wind, gravity, etc...
I’ll look into the Cal DSF as I read the image posted above, but haven’t looked at the exact Kestrel steps to go through that process.
On my dope charts I'll chrono my rifle and ammo, get an actual legit MV, and then input that. Then I'll use that to get close. I'll zero it, and then correct BC to my actual dope, until my chart matches really close to real-world data.
I’ve used this process with good results on several solvers and 22 rifles. relatively quick and easy
Turn off Spindrift and Coriolis if it’s an option.
zero @50
Waterline at 100 yards, adjust muzzle velocity to true actual results with solver
waterline at 200 yards, adjust BC to true actual results with solver.
Plinking for fun after a 22 rimfire match this weekend. Using applied ballistics data in 5 mile an hour crosswind hit a 5 x 7 steel at 535 yards on fourth shot. Witnessed. Vudoo/center x
Turn off Spindrift and Coriolis if it’s an option.
zero @50
Waterline at 100 yards, adjust muzzle velocity to true actual results with solver
waterline at 200 yards, adjust BC to true actual results with solver.
Plinking for fun after a 22 rimfire match this weekend. Using applied ballistics data in 5 mile an hour crosswind hit a 5 x 7 steel at 535 yards on fourth shot. Witnessed. Vudoo/center x
Just play with all the inputs until the kestrel lines up with the real world dope.
It doesn't really matter what the kestrel thinks, so long as you have reliable real world data to match the kestrel to you should be fine.
Extrapolating to further distances than you've had the ability to confirm to may be an issue but it almost always is with rimfire.
I was doing a bit of testing with strelok pro today and played with the multi BC option a bit. I managed to get it pretty damn close from 50 out to 325 yards. The true test will be a club match on Sunday. I shot at roughly 400 yards as well, but my cheap range finder couldn't get a good reading on the target, so I don't know if the difference between strelok and what was actually happening was due to that or not. It was close enough at 550 yards that I don't think it was my dope causing the issues at 400. The target at 550 was 30" tall though, and I couldn't see where I was hitting, just got a ding coming back about 3 seconds later.
Kristian
Kristian
First thing is to nail down all of the rifle details. With a 22lr because we dial such large amounts of elevation in this becomes even more critical then with a 6mm to 1200 yds.
Height over bore: If using a canted base do this at the objective lens because the line of sight starts from the last lens the light goes through on a optic.
Scope "click" value: you want to know this value or your near and far dope wont line up. Also when you switch scopes you have to retrue everything if you dont.
My procedure is to get actual velocity. Zero at 50 then shoot a couple of 20 shot groups on paper in a consistent wind condition. Calculate the center of each group and take the actual average velocity of rounds used in that group and calculate the BC. Be sure to include AJ + Cor in your calculations or you will be off. Be very precise with environmentals. Do this on a couple of days and average out.
If you true at 200 yards will be good enough for PRS/ NRL. If your just interested in 100 yds and in you may need to true at 100 yards depending on the solver used.
Use RA4 is best next G7. G1 doesnt line up the best for long range 22lr its workable to 200-250.
Using actual velocity and truing BC I never have to change anything year round. I shoot from -25⁰c to 35⁰c it works +/- 0.1 mil. I want a velocity samples at a number of temperatures. Different ammo responds different to temp changes. Around freezing some start to take a big change down so you wil need a couple of data points one just above freezing and one just below. You have to test for yourself.
Height over bore: If using a canted base do this at the objective lens because the line of sight starts from the last lens the light goes through on a optic.
Scope "click" value: you want to know this value or your near and far dope wont line up. Also when you switch scopes you have to retrue everything if you dont.
My procedure is to get actual velocity. Zero at 50 then shoot a couple of 20 shot groups on paper in a consistent wind condition. Calculate the center of each group and take the actual average velocity of rounds used in that group and calculate the BC. Be sure to include AJ + Cor in your calculations or you will be off. Be very precise with environmentals. Do this on a couple of days and average out.
If you true at 200 yards will be good enough for PRS/ NRL. If your just interested in 100 yds and in you may need to true at 100 yards depending on the solver used.
Use RA4 is best next G7. G1 doesnt line up the best for long range 22lr its workable to 200-250.
Using actual velocity and truing BC I never have to change anything year round. I shoot from -25⁰c to 35⁰c it works +/- 0.1 mil. I want a velocity samples at a number of temperatures. Different ammo responds different to temp changes. Around freezing some start to take a big change down so you wil need a couple of data points one just above freezing and one just below. You have to test for yourself.
I was doing a bit of longer range testing this week, and played with the multi BC option in strelok pro a bit. It seemed to get strelok closer to what happens in real life at longer ranges, but I need to do a bit more testing to verify. I was pretty happy with this setup though, and it seemed to hold up pretty good out to 550 yards. When I initially tried just a single ra4 BC number, it didn't really work out at long and short ranges. One of the guys I shoot with said to try setting up different profiles for inside 200 and beyond 200, but I figured it was too much to screw up during a match trying to remember which to use.
Kristian
Kristian
How did you work out the bands? Trial and error or some formula based on the velocity?I was doing a bit of longer range testing this week, and played with the multi BC option in strelok pro a bit. It seemed to get strelok closer to what happens in real life at longer ranges, but I need to do a bit more testing to verify. I was pretty happy with this setup though, and it seemed to hold up pretty good out to 550 yards. When I initially tried just a single ra4 BC number, it didn't really work out at long and short ranges. One of the guys I shoot with said to try setting up different profiles for inside 200 and beyond 200, but I figured it was too much to screw up during a match trying to remember which to use.
Kristian
Just trial and error. I shot at the top and bottom edges of some fairly big steel targets to verify my elevation, then played with the BC at various velocities to make strelok match the real world results I was getting. I've already got fairly good temperature vs. velocity data for this batch of ammo, so hopefully it all holds true in a match situation. It's tough trying to figure out if it's on though, as my range finder is only reliable out to about 350 yards, so I have to go by the posted target distances at the range, and there's nothing between 325 and 548 yards that I have a good distance for along with a big enough target that I can reliably hit it. I'm going to try to get out again this afternoon to do a bit more testing before a match tomorrow, so we'll see.
Kristian
IMHO its all glitches in the matrix from 350-400I just shoot targets out to 400 and get the actual dope at those distances.
I did a little more testing with my multi BC setup today, and it seemed to give good results. I think I'm going to use that data in the match I'm shooting tomorrow. Today I zeroed my rifle at 50m, and shot targets at 69, 100, 206, 229, 293, and 334m, all were close enough elevation wise that I think I'm where I need to be.
Kristian
Kristian
I shot a match today using the multi BC dope I figured out for strelok, and did fairly good, but I'm usually just a mid pack shooter anyway. I also graphed the multi BC dope out to 600m along with a couple other straight solutions I've tried, and strelok predicted pretty well dead on the same numbers as a .100 RA4 BC did out to 400m or so, so it might have just been pointless fiddling around.
Kristian
Kristian
If
If using RA4 I've had no reason to use multi bc out to around 550 yards if you have the rest of the details right. I've been to 680 and it would appear that multi bc have a place out there. Still working on that.
I could shoot more than 550 at my range, but I wouldn't be able to see the target in my scope, so I don't think I need to worry about that. I'll probably play with the ra4 a bit to see if it needs a bit of tuning though. It seemed good yesterday, but we only shot to 304 yards. I was able to hit a full size IPSC at that range with both shots though.
Kristian
Gleedus, what settings do you use in Strelok Pro? I assume you activate "vertical deflection of crosswind"?
Do you activate "spin drift" and "Coriolis effect" also?
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