What next after 6.5CM?

[synfinatic]

Short version is I have an RPR in 6.5CM. Loading my own since day one a little over a year ago. Learned a lot in the process, but still learning. No problems with consistently hitting 1000yds with 142SMKs. Got super lucky hitting 1mi once. Honestly, things start going to hell around 1200yds because as far as I can tell they don't like going transonic. So working on developing the 147ELD-M and 140RDF (right now looks like the ELD-Ms shoot better in my barrel).

So now I'm starting to think "wow, I've got a lot of money burning a hole in my pocket... clearly I need to build a better gun for the mile". Had been thinking of 7SAUM to be the next step up in my journey.... but looking at the ballistics of 7PRC, well that seems like a better option if I want to do the mile consistently and since I plan on buying a new action so short vs. long doesn't really matter to me. Sure I could go bigger (300NM, 300PRC, etc), but I don't see how that really helps me?

On paper it seems 7PRC is the way to go (bullet selection, velocity, recoil, efficient, barrel life), but no idea when Lapua, ADM, etc are going to offer up brass... at least 7SAUM has _some_ support there.

Thoughts/advice? Anything else I should seriously be considering as a step up? Only big rifle I've ever shot was a 300WinMag w/o a brake when 8 which was a long time ago... I don't remember much other than asking to do it again.

 

[Taylorbok]

7 PRC would be fine but wouldn't be my choice for 1 mile plus. (not to mention the brass is currently only available at RCC for like $6ea)
I would do something larger yes 300 Norma, 300 PRC, 30 Sherman would be a decent choice, Shoot the 245 Bergers. Something to consider is 33XC is dominating the King of 1 Mile but I mean it's the logical choice for that competition but it's gonna be spendy if you wanna shoot it lots.

 

[synfinatic]

Yeah... I mean I can do a 300NM/PRC. Seems like a significant increase in $$$ and recoil when I really should be focusing on range time and doing better at reading wind? Honestly 30 Sherman hadn't even showed up on my radar until you mentioned it... so far I haven't considered dealing with fire forming my own brass. There's also 7-300 and 28 Nosler but they're both a bit of a barrel burner.

 

[Taylorbok]

None of them are really going to cost much more than the other. Recoil will be greater but it’s not crazy.

 

[GIXXER2000]

If you want a good solid 1 mile+ round 300 PRC I have shot with guys at matches using 300PRC and the very well all the way out to 2700 yards. The brass is available no fire forming and you can run 215 to 250 grain bullets. I would run 230's. Just keep it simple. I have a .338LM and 300WM with a 300NM barrel coming in the next week or so.

 

[Chandalar]

7mm RASUM.

 

[babyguppy]

Short version is I have an RPR in 6.5CM. Loading my own since day one a little over a year ago. Learned a lot in the process, but still learning. No problems with consistently hitting 1000yds with 142SMKs. Got super lucky hitting 1mi once. Honestly, things start going to hell around 1200yds because as far as I can tell they don't like going transonic. So working on developing the 147ELD-M and 140RDF (right now looks like the ELD-Ms shoot better in my barrel).

So now I'm starting to think "wow, I've got a lot of money burning a hole in my pocket... clearly I need to build a better gun for the mile". Had been thinking of 7SAUM to be the next step up in my journey.... but looking at the ballistics of 7PRC, well that seems like a better option if I want to do the mile consistently and since I plan on buying a new action so short vs. long doesn't really matter to me. Sure I could go bigger (300NM, 300PRC, etc), but I don't see how that really helps me?

On paper it seems 7PRC is the way to go (bullet selection, velocity, recoil, efficient, barrel life), but no idea when Lapua, ADM, etc are going to offer up brass... at least 7SAUM has _some_ support there.

Thoughts/advice? Anything else I should seriously be considering as a step up? Only big rifle I've ever shot was a 300WinMag w/o a brake when 8 which was a long time ago... I don't remember much other than asking to do it again.

33xc
you have the bug, you might as well step up to the 375 or 416, because you're going to end up there.

 

[ForgeValley]

The 7mm are tough right now, SAUM and PRC brass is almost non existent.

One thing you might consider is if you want to do more ELR specific stuff like ko1m type events, or some of the elr-ish events like the Nightforce Challenge.

If the former, 33xc all the way, single shot.

If the latter, you'll want a repeater and probably something in 30 cal like Norma or PRC. I love the 7mm, but if you want to stretch out past a mile you will be better served with the 30 cals.

 

[cas6969]

Smaller targets would be cheaper.

 

[babyguppy]

If you want a good solid 1 mile+ round 300 PRC I have shot with guys at matches using 300PRC and the very well all the way out to 2700 yards. The brass is available no fire forming and you can run 215 to 250 grain bullets. I would run 230's. Just keep it simple. I have a .338LM and 300WM with a 300NM barrel coming in the next week or so.

@GIXXER2000 - you running an AI or Barret? what's your receiver for the above mentioned?

 

[kthomas]

The next logical step up is a .30 or .33 cal cartridge, many of which have been mentioned. If you go with the Lapua bolt face (i.e. .300NM), you can always step up to the XC cartridges. With the .300 PRC, you've hit the ceiling for that action.

7mm is too close to 6.5mm in performance to be worth the hassle and expense of building a new rifle for, IMO.

My vote is .300NM. Recoil is not bad at all, and you can always get a barrel for an XC cartridge if you ever grow beyond the capabilities of the .300NM.

 

[Taylorbok]

My vote is .300NM. Recoil is not bad at all, and you can always get a barrel for an XC cartridge if you ever grow beyond the capabilities of the .300NM.

This is really good advice. You could even just have 2 barrels.

 

[roostercogburn98]

After you get rid of your 6.5cm, starting to date women again should be your first priority

 

[nick338]

Short version is I have an RPR in 6.5CM. Loading my own since day one a little over a year ago. Learned a lot in the process, but still learning. No problems with consistently hitting 1000yds with 142SMKs. Got super lucky hitting 1mi once. Honestly, things start going to hell around 1200yds because as far as I can tell they don't like going transonic. So working on developing the 147ELD-M and 140RDF (right now looks like the ELD-Ms shoot better in my barrel).

So now I'm starting to think "wow, I've got a lot of money burning a hole in my pocket... clearly I need to build a better gun for the mile". Had been thinking of 7SAUM to be the next step up in my journey.... but looking at the ballistics of 7PRC, well that seems like a better option if I want to do the mile consistently and since I plan on buying a new action so short vs. long doesn't really matter to me. Sure I could go bigger (300NM, 300PRC, etc), but I don't see how that really helps me?

On paper it seems 7PRC is the way to go (bullet selection, velocity, recoil, efficient, barrel life), but no idea when Lapua, ADM, etc are going to offer up brass... at least 7SAUM has _some_ support there.

Thoughts/advice? Anything else I should seriously be considering as a step up? Only big rifle I've ever shot was a 300WinMag w/o a brake when 8 which was a long time ago... I don't remember much other than asking to do it again.

Actually the 142 Sierra Matchking is a very fine bullet and should fly into transonic better than most as it has more of a tangent ogive which is more forgiving than the more aggressive, high BC, secant bullets we are used to.

Saying that, you're going to have limited success at 1 mile with that cartridge to begin with and honestly if you're new to anything beyond 1500 yards don't expect much, especially with a caliber that's handicapping you to begin with.

Top notch shooter and loader on a calm day, sure have at it with your Creedmoor at a mile.

Moving on figure out what the goal is. If you want a mile rifle, then build one and that means 300 PRC or 300 Norma. Some may say 338 but the extra recoil isn't necessary and the projectiles available for the big 30's are currently better.

If you want a rifle to do everything great out to 1500 and occasionally do some work out to 2000, then my vote will be 7 PRC all day, every day for a modern case design to run the newer, sexy bullets, moderate recoil, decent barrel life and factory support. I can't think of a better cartridge that could fill so may roles across the board as this one has the potential to do.

 

[Huskydriver]

After you get rid of your 6.5cm, starting to date women again should be your first priority

How you gunna assume his gender like that? Maybe he wants to step down to a 6gay tiger?

 

[TripleBull]

No wonder the ELR forum is dying... So harsh on the poor 6.5 CM'er, lol.

OP, the recoil on the 300 PRC is not bad with a decent brake. I have an Area 419 Sidewinder and it's a total cream puff. Admittedly, it's on an AX-MC that's on the hefty side, but there you have it. Besides, recoil is one of the things that makes America great, so suck it up.

 

[synfinatic]

No wonder the ELR forum is dying... So harsh on the poor 6.5 CM'er, lol.

OP, the recoil on the 300 PRC is not bad with a decent brake. I have an Area 419 Sidewinder and it's a total cream puff. Admittedly, it's on an AX-MC that's on the hefty side, but there you have it. Besides, recoil is one of the things that makes America great, so suck it up.

Oh, I thought they were flirting?

 

[synfinatic]

Thanks everyone so far for the thoughts. Honestly, I figured between 6.5CM and an RPR there'd be a few cute comments. Not really thinking of competing right now... cross that bridge when I get there I guess. Guess I should do more thinking/research on 300NM/PRC. I believe there are some actions which would allow shooting the PRC today and say XC later with just a bolt & barrel change?

 

[GIXXER2000]

I am running an AI-PSR. The MRAD is just to hard to get Barrels. I

 

[Huskydriver]

If you want to go big later the 300norma is a no brainer.

 

[nick338]

If you want to go big later the 300norma is a no brainer.

Yup, wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[brianf]

300 PRC shooting 230 A-tips is 1 mile medicine

going to 2000 300 norma and bigger

but if 1000-1700 is your wheelhouse the norma isnt worth it dollar or recoil wise compared to the prc

 

[nick338]

300 PRC shooting 230 A-tips is 1 mile medicine

going to 2000 300 norma and bigger

but if 1000-1700 is your wheelhouse the norma isnt worth it dollar or recoil wise compared to the prc

Having owned both I did not see a significant enough difference in anything you mentioned to warrant going with the 300 PRC over the Norma, unless you already own a standard, long action magnum and want to just re-barrel.

Lapua brass, powders, primers, bullets are all interchangeable for both cartridges and honestly if you're shooting them side by side out of similarly built rifles the difference in recoil is negligible. And the Norma was far easier to tune with 2 different bullets and N570 then the PRC was with 3 different powders.

 

[brianf]

I’m just going on the testing we did on both calibers on RD rifles and multiple barrels.

Consensus was for 1200-1700 yards more or less we all agreed the 300prc was a better fit.

Both under MOA at 1 mile, but the recoil seemed less snappy, cheaper brass at the time , and a few grains less powder.

I’m a 300 Norma fan, I have a few in the safe.

The rifle I pull out more often is the prc.

 

[nick338]

I thought that was going to be the case until a 220 gr at 2850 was more unpleasant to shoot than a 245 at 2950, largely due to a 3 lb difference in rifle weight, but that just tells me there isn't much room to play with in terms of making the rifle lighter and more maneuverable.

Had the 7 PRC been announced a month earlier, it would have been the choice for that rifle in a heartbeat and I would have just kept the 300 Norma for longer range duty.

 

[Huskydriver]

I’m just going on the testing we did on both calibers on RD rifles and multiple barrels.

Consensus was for 1200-1700 yards more or less we all agreed the 300prc was a better fit.

Both under MOA at 1 mile, but the recoil seemed less snappy, cheaper brass at the time , and a few grains less powder.

I’m a 300 Norma fan, I have a few in the safe.

The rifle I pull out more often is the prc.

Exactly my sentiments

 

[jbuck88]

I went 300Norma since I already had a 338LM and only needed a barrel. I would suspect the PRC would work just as well.

So flip a coin, the components will be the same either way.

 

[Ichi]

Thanks everyone so far for the thoughts. Honestly, I figured between 6.5CM and an RPR there'd be a few cute comments. Not really thinking of competing right now... cross that bridge when I get there I guess. Guess I should do more thinking/research on 300NM/PRC. I believe there are some actions which would allow shooting the PRC today and say XC later with just a bolt & barrel change?

I've been considering the Terminus and Ruckus with this in mind. Just need to buy a few different barrels/calibers and shoot what is available.

 

[jbuck88]

Thanks everyone so far for the thoughts. Honestly, I figured between 6.5CM and an RPR there'd be a few cute comments. Not really thinking of competing right now... cross that bridge when I get there I guess. Guess I should do more thinking/research on 300NM/PRC. I believe there are some actions which would allow shooting the PRC today and say XC later with just a bolt & barrel change?

I'm not familiar with a lot of actions. But Accuracy International will be good for both with a bolt and barrel change.

I also believe the ARC Mousingfield would swing both ways with a bolt head swap.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

When 6.5CM arrived, it was largely admired as a smarter replacement for the .260 Rem. A smidge less case capacity, with a slightly longer neck. The slightly shorter cases were expected to work better in auto-loaders, but...

There were other issues that tended to be overlooked. It was very heavily supported by the industry, especially as good factory ammo was quickly available. But it also came up at that tiny bit short on velocity at 1000yd.

I ignored it because I'd largely been shooting .260 at 1000yd for about a decade, handloaded all my ammo; and I had no need to duplicate/replace my reloading gear, etc., in order to come up second in the velocity race. The industry support juggernaut prevailed. The demise of the .260 was announced with the arrival of the 6.5-284. But the 6.5-284 burned barrels too much and does not hold the limelight these days. Like my experiments with the .224 (.223/5.56, .22-250, others), it became evident that the .223/5.56 case capacity was a very good compromise for that bore diameter. I think the same relationship is true for the .260 and for the .280 Rem.

But there were some advantages to the .260 that many did not recognize or tout as much as I did.

Brass: suppose there were industry-wide shortages? Heaven forbid!!!! Nevah Happen!

Well, I could (and do) use other related cases in the interim. I can use .308, .243, and 7-08 right instead of .260 cases (7-08 in my instance). Those other cases seem(ed?) to cost less. The same powders, primers, and bullets work as well or better for .260 as 6.5CM. For 6.5CM, such case swaps are not so readily available.

I also did my obligatory venture into the 6.5 Grendel. I discovered some new (to me) problems. Dwell time, broken extractor, bolt face diameter/rim dimension questions, and pressure issues that developed before pressure signs on the cases. Once sorted out, it works; but it was not an easy process for me.

7mm? OK, but the only 7mm I ever really liked was the .280 Rem.

So right now, I'm still doing the .260 (in a 28" barrel length) ; and at the same time, interest in the 6.5CM looks like it may be waning. Who knew?

Greg

 

[ToKeepAndBear]

I mainly shot 260 Rem, 308, and 223 for years. I have a weakness for Finnish rifles and found a TRG 42 in 338LM for a good deal when looking for my first ELR rig.

I have found the 338LM is a bit less popular these days, which is a good thing if you want to find components! No problem finding brass/powder/bullets and the expense difference is a wash compared to the 300s, especially when you consider barrel life. I can reload it on my Co-ax that I already own.

I agree that the 6.5s get really difficult at/beyond 1200 yards. 338LM is a HUGE step up in performance compared to the 308 Win/6.5s at at mile! Spotting misses/hits was quite easy at a mile with 300gr A-tips. We had a heck of a time seeing misses or hits at a mile with the non-PRC 6.5 class. Recoil is there but doable with a good brake. I have shot as many as 80 rounds in a 3 hour session, slight headache, shoulder was fine.

I say go big and strongly recommend a 338LM for availability of reloading components!

 

[towerofpower93]

I mainly shot 260 Rem, 308, and 223 for years. I have a weakness for Finnish rifles and found a TRG 42 in 338LM for a good deal when looking for my first ELR rig.

I have found the 338LM is a bit less popular these days, which is a good thing if you want to find components! No problem finding brass/powder/bullets and the expense difference is a wash compared to the 300s, especially when you consider barrel life. I can reload it on my Co-ax that I already own.

I agree that the 6.5s get really difficult at/beyond 1200 yards. 338LM is a HUGE step up in performance compared to the 308 Win/6.5s at at mile! Spotting misses/hits was quite easy at a mile with 300gr A-tips. We had a heck of a time seeing misses or hits at a mile with the non-PRC 6.5 class. Recoil is there but doable with a good brake. I have shot as many as 80 rounds in a 3 hour session, slight headache, shoulder was fine.

I say go big and strongly recommend a 338LM for availability of reloading components!

I'll second the .338LM.

I'm not shooting in major ELR matches, but a local 1100yd match crew (actually, they're the owners of a dairy farm who like to build rifles in their spare time) put on a mile match a few times a year. I used this as an excuse to get a big boomer and then a big silencer to go on the end.

Nothing as satisfying as the CLANG of a 285gr ELD-M hitting at 800, 1000, 1300, and then 1760

 

[otnot]

My next step up from the 6.5 CM is going to be the 300 Norma Mag, that way if I decide I don't like it I can rebarrel it to .338 LM or 33XC.

 

[synfinatic]

Yeah, Bergers seem easier in 338 right now than 30, but seems like if your barrel likes to run the ELD-M's the world is your oyster right now. I bet my biggest issue is probably going to be finding large magnum primers. I have plenty of CCI BR2 and Fed210M which should work for 7SAUM/SS.

 

[Taylorbok]

Yeah, Bergers seem easier in 338 right now than 30, but seems like if your barrel likes to run the ELD-M's the world is your oyster right now. I bet my biggest issue is probably going to be finding large magnum primers. I have plenty of CCI BR2 and Fed210M which should work for 7SAUM/SS.

ya 245 Bergers are super hard to get right now. I switched to the A-tips because they were available. Large Magnum Primers are tough to find but popping up once in a while

 

[Rocketmandb]

Thoughts/advice? Anything else I should seriously be considering as a step up?

My take on what's been offered up so far:

7-300 or 7 PRC: Not mainstream enough yet. Equipment and components will be tougher to come by. Not sure what it gets you over a 300 PRC.

300 Norma: Excellent cartridge. Better than a 300 PRC for shooting the heavier (245/250) pills, but overkill for anything else. More expensive too. A lot depends on what max distance you plan on shooting at.

300 PRC: My favorite rifle to shoot. I've taken it to 2400, but that was just lobbing bullets in. A mile to 2k is a sweet spot. As others mentioned, recoil is tame with a good brake.

338 Lapua: More expense, more recoil (vs. 300 Norma or 300 PRC), limited ballistic benefits except within a small regime (2k - 2.2k). Lapua improved would be a better choice as that small regime of superiority over the big 300s gets a chunk wider. You have to form, but easy to do.

33XC: I shoot a 37XC and I'm seriously considering dropping to a 33XC when I rebarrel. But I'm also considering a 338 improved. I would not recommend this as a step-up from a 6.5. It is anything but mainstream, and not the easiest to load for. It is a very long case and requires some upsized reloading gear.

 

[The D]

After you get rid of your 6.5cm, starting to date women again should be your first priority

Baby steps. There’s no sense in him trying to do too much at once

 

[synfinatic]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but what advantage does say 300 PRC have other than Lapua brass over 7 SAUM? Looking at ELDM 180@2970 vs 225@2930 in Strelok and the 7SAUM retains more speed, has less drop and is less impacted by wind deflection at a mile.

 

[Long Range 338]

At this point the 7 PRC is released and would probably be a better option long term than the 7 SAUM. Lapua brass isn't going to be an option (per their own announcement) going forward for quite some time. I imagine you will see multiple brass options coming forth very soon for the 7 PRC. BC is BC no matter what caliber and the 7mm will have less recoil and use a little less powder than the 30 cal options. Of course the 300 PRC ammo/components are currently sitting on shelves.

 

[acudaowner]

take your pick and let it run

List of rifle cartridges - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

and I am sure you can find more after these .

 

[MrBlond]

Short version is I have an RPR in 6.5CM. Loading my own since day one a little over a year ago. Learned a lot in the process, but still learning. No problems with consistently hitting 1000yds with 142SMKs. Got super lucky hitting 1mi once. Honestly, things start going to hell around 1200yds because as far as I can tell they don't like going transonic. So working on developing the 147ELD-M and 140RDF (right now looks like the ELD-Ms shoot better in my barrel).

So now I'm starting to think "wow, I've got a lot of money burning a hole in my pocket... clearly I need to build a better gun for the mile". Had been thinking of 7SAUM to be the next step up in my journey.... but looking at the ballistics of 7PRC, well that seems like a better option if I want to do the mile consistently and since I plan on buying a new action so short vs. long doesn't really matter to me. Sure I could go bigger (300NM, 300PRC, etc), but I don't see how that really helps me?

On paper it seems 7PRC is the way to go (bullet selection, velocity, recoil, efficient, barrel life), but no idea when Lapua, ADM, etc are going to offer up brass... at least 7SAUM has _some_ support there.

Thoughts/advice? Anything else I should seriously be considering as a step up? Only big rifle I've ever shot was a 300WinMag w/o a brake when 8 which was a long time ago... I don't remember much other than asking to do it again.

Based on ammo/brass prices 300 PRC seems like the best choice.

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[synfinatic]

From what I've heard, ADG and Lapua have both said they don't have any plans to bring 7PRC brass anytime soon. Peterson is sometime 2023 (some mixed stories when- maybe Q1?). Of course Lapua 300 PRC brass is available today.

I sorta wonder how much work it would be to resize, trim and ream 300PRC to 7PRC? Just need the 7PRC dies or something also in between to bump the shoulder?

 

[Rocketmandb]

I sorta wonder how much work it would be to resize, trim and ream 300PRC to 7PRC? Just need the 7PRC dies or something also in between to bump the shoulder?

It's pretty easy (if it's even necessary - chamber-dependent). I used a reamer for the Forster trimmer when I was modifying 8x68S to 300 PRC when all you could get was Hornady brass. You could also neck turn after you run a mandrel through.

 

[Centurion123]

33XC: I shoot a 37XC and I'm seriously considering dropping to a 33XC when I rebarrel. But I'm also considering a 338 improved. I would not recommend this as a step-up from a 6.5. It is anything but mainstream, and not the easiest to load for. It is a very long case and requires some upsized reloading gear.

What advantages does the 33XC have vs the 37XC? I have read about others considering the same move, but on paper the 37 looks more balanced and with more energy. Kinda torn between the two myself.

 

[Rocketmandb]

What advantages does the 33XC have vs the 37XC? I have read about others considering the same move, but on paper the 37 looks more balanced and with more energy. Kinda torn between the two myself.

A number of things:

- Berger hybrids (300 gr). There is a difference between the 300 Berger and the 353 Lehighs from a ballistic standpoint, but when you factor in the higher velocity of the 338s it's not a big as you might think. Then there is the cost, dealing with seating depth is easier, etc. - ~$1 per bullet vs $2.50 is a big difference.

- Dies: I can get a 33XC seater from LE Wilson. The design of their dies precludes using larger bullets, so I'm stuck using the Tubb die - which I'm not overly impressed with. I'm missing using my Arbor press and the data it gives me. I also don't like their sizing die, but that's not going to change by going to a 33XC. I called Whidden to see if they could make me one, but they have some sort of agreement with Tubb to not do so.

- Spotting: I just went out yesterday and set a target at 2504 yards (new personal best for me). I was by myself and self spotting, and it was difficult seeing anything - hits are impossible. This is due to the nature of shooting solids vs jacketed lead core. I find it easier to spot my 300 PRC rounds (230 Bergers) than I do the 353 solids. I really want Bergers! Their 375 solids don't count I'm going to start playing with 390 A Tips. I asked Berger if they had plans for a 375 jacketed bullet and they said no.

 

[918v]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but what advantage does say 300 PRC have other than Lapua brass over 7 SAUM? Looking at ELDM 180@2970 vs 225@2930 in Strelok and the 7SAUM retains more speed, has less drop and is less impacted by wind deflection at a mile.

2x the barrel life

 

[Newbie2020]

Short version is I have an RPR in 6.5CM. Loading my own since day one a little over a year ago. Learned a lot in the process, but still learning. No problems with consistently hitting 1000yds with 142SMKs. Got super lucky hitting 1mi once. Honestly, things start going to hell around 1200yds because as far as I can tell they don't like going transonic. So working on developing the 147ELD-M and 140RDF (right now looks like the ELD-Ms shoot better in my barrel).

So now I'm starting to think "wow, I've got a lot of money burning a hole in my pocket... clearly I need to build a better gun for the mile". Had been thinking of 7SAUM to be the next step up in my journey.... but looking at the ballistics of 7PRC, well that seems like a better option if I want to do the mile consistently and since I plan on buying a new action so short vs. long doesn't really matter to me. Sure I could go bigger (300NM, 300PRC, etc), but I don't see how that really helps me?

On paper it seems 7PRC is the way to go (bullet selection, velocity, recoil, efficient, barrel life), but no idea when Lapua, ADM, etc are going to offer up brass... at least 7SAUM has _some_ support there.

Thoughts/advice? Anything else I should seriously be considering as a step up? Only big rifle I've ever shot was a 300WinMag w/o a brake when 8 which was a long time ago... I don't remember much other than asking to do it again.

@synfinatic if transonic at 1,200 is your only real challenge why not load up some 123s or 136s to push out your transonic range? Plenty of guys taking 6.5cm to a mile around the country, unless you’re sitting down at sea level maybe it’s more of a challenge?…

 

[brianf]

@synfinatic if transonic at 1,200 is your only real challenge why not load up some 123s or 136s to push out your transonic range? Plenty of guys taking 6.5cm to a mile around the country, unless you’re sitting down at sea level maybe it’s more of a challenge?…

6.5cm at a mile is artillery beaten zone accuracy...guys are shooting 22lr at 600 yards too

just because they are wasting ammo doesnt it make it the correct tool for the job

 

[Taylorbok]

@synfinatic if transonic at 1,200 is your only real challenge why not load up some 123s or 136s to push out your transonic range? Plenty of guys taking 6.5cm to a mile around the country, unless you’re sitting down at sea level maybe it’s more of a challenge?…

This is not the answer.
Yes you can shoot 6.5cm to a mile and have moderate success but if you are planning on doing it often up your odds.