I`ve noticed the 416 isn`t as popular as the 375 and 408 Cheytac. With that kind of velocity it should be more popular but the more research I do, the two problems I think it is, is with that much case capacity, it needs a bullet of around 500gr, (Hornady A-Max) would be nice. The other problem is using 50BMG primers, they are too hot which causes high ES. I even thought about necking the 416 down to 375 but back to the primer problems. What do you think?
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What`s wrong with the 416 Barrett?
- Thread starter excaliber
- Start date
Re: What`s wrong with the 416 Barrett?
The closest projectile to what you're looking for appears to be the Rocky Mountain 450 - see http://www.rmbullets.com/page9.html
In case an RWS primer would help, see TenX at http://www.tenxbullets.com/imports.html
The closest projectile to what you're looking for appears to be the Rocky Mountain 450 - see http://www.rmbullets.com/page9.html
In case an RWS primer would help, see TenX at http://www.tenxbullets.com/imports.html
Re: What`s wrong with the 416 Barrett?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: excaliber</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The other problem is using 50BMG primers, they are too hot which causes high ES. </div></div>
how do you know they are "too hot" ? and how do you know that's the direct cause of a high ES ?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: excaliber</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The other problem is using 50BMG primers, they are too hot which causes high ES. </div></div>
how do you know they are "too hot" ? and how do you know that's the direct cause of a high ES ?
Re: What`s wrong with the 416 Barrett?
Has anyone shot this cartridge (reloads,not factory) enough to have a true answer? And what yardage was the testing done? Was the ES good or bad?
Has anyone shot this cartridge (reloads,not factory) enough to have a true answer? And what yardage was the testing done? Was the ES good or bad?
Re: What`s wrong with the 416 Barrett?
Mallard, I talked to a major bullet manufacture this week and he has shot the 416 quite a bit and he was the one saying that. If you think about it, it`s like the 30-06 vs the 300 win mag, one uses mag primers and one don`t, if you run mag primers in a 30-06, the ES gets crazy. I am just trying to see if someone else has tested enough to have an answer. I am interested in the 416 but I don`t want to build a rifle on a cartridge that has problems.
Mallard, I talked to a major bullet manufacture this week and he has shot the 416 quite a bit and he was the one saying that. If you think about it, it`s like the 30-06 vs the 300 win mag, one uses mag primers and one don`t, if you run mag primers in a 30-06, the ES gets crazy. I am just trying to see if someone else has tested enough to have an answer. I am interested in the 416 but I don`t want to build a rifle on a cartridge that has problems.
Re: What`s wrong with the 416 Barrett?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: excaliber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I`ve noticed the 416 isn`t as popular as the 375 and 408 Cheytac. With that kind of velocity it should be more popular but the more research I do, the two problems I think it is, is with that much case capacity, it needs a bullet of around 500gr, (Hornady A-Max) would be nice. The other problem is using 50BMG primers, they are too hot which causes high ES. I even thought about necking the 416 down to 375 but back to the primer problems. What do you think?</div></div>
.50 BMG primers being "hot" has zero issue with SD. Necking down to .375 puts you on the edge of extreme over bore, and as I have said before you're powder selection becomes the issue. What we need is a really high BC projo 414-435gr. There is just not a huge selection of projos for the .416 that will exploit its long range capabilities. If you go to a 500 gr projo you would need an even slower powder, and a even longer barrel to burn all the powder.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: excaliber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I`ve noticed the 416 isn`t as popular as the 375 and 408 Cheytac. With that kind of velocity it should be more popular but the more research I do, the two problems I think it is, is with that much case capacity, it needs a bullet of around 500gr, (Hornady A-Max) would be nice. The other problem is using 50BMG primers, they are too hot which causes high ES. I even thought about necking the 416 down to 375 but back to the primer problems. What do you think?</div></div>
.50 BMG primers being "hot" has zero issue with SD. Necking down to .375 puts you on the edge of extreme over bore, and as I have said before you're powder selection becomes the issue. What we need is a really high BC projo 414-435gr. There is just not a huge selection of projos for the .416 that will exploit its long range capabilities. If you go to a 500 gr projo you would need an even slower powder, and a even longer barrel to burn all the powder.
Re: What`s wrong with the 416 Barrett?
i take it your planning on reloading the the 416??? if your not, buy up some barrett ammo and use it... the round is fine, shooting a 395 grain solid @ over 3K fps, why would you need or want a 400-500 grain projectile??? when the 395 solid has an amazing BC and will get you past 2k any day of the week, that is "IF" you have access to shoot that far.
i take it your planning on reloading the the 416??? if your not, buy up some barrett ammo and use it... the round is fine, shooting a 395 grain solid @ over 3K fps, why would you need or want a 400-500 grain projectile??? when the 395 solid has an amazing BC and will get you past 2k any day of the week, that is "IF" you have access to shoot that far.
Re: What`s wrong with the 416 Barrett?
Hey Skinney, my 408 Cheytac can shoot a 419gr bullet at 3000fps with less powder and a higher BC, which means there is not a powder out yet for the 416 that makes it any better. A cartridge that has that kind of powder capacity needs a bullet at least 475-500gr with a BC of 1.0 or better. Today people who shoot 375`s caliber boomers are using 400-425gr bullets. If you run the numbers, the 416 won`t do 3250fps as advertised and the BC is not as claimed. And yes, I have a place to shoot 3000yds.
Hey Skinney, my 408 Cheytac can shoot a 419gr bullet at 3000fps with less powder and a higher BC, which means there is not a powder out yet for the 416 that makes it any better. A cartridge that has that kind of powder capacity needs a bullet at least 475-500gr with a BC of 1.0 or better. Today people who shoot 375`s caliber boomers are using 400-425gr bullets. If you run the numbers, the 416 won`t do 3250fps as advertised and the BC is not as claimed. And yes, I have a place to shoot 3000yds.
Re: What`s wrong with the 416 Barrett?
if your 408 can run those numbers, your not gonna get a much better performer @ ELR... i've taken the .416 well past 1200, and could see this gun is very capable of +2K, and will have a ELR video up soon, with the 416 and the 338NM, i have ran the numbers with the barrett ammo, and with a 75 degree temp the chrony said 3200 avg with 5 rounds.
if your 408 can run those numbers, your not gonna get a much better performer @ ELR... i've taken the .416 well past 1200, and could see this gun is very capable of +2K, and will have a ELR video up soon, with the 416 and the 338NM, i have ran the numbers with the barrett ammo, and with a 75 degree temp the chrony said 3200 avg with 5 rounds.
Re: What`s wrong with the 416 Barrett?
It's been said for years...that the reason the CT dominates is absolutely due to the bullet design, and the reason it's popular is because of the powder consumption compared to the .50.
The .416 Barrett just wasn't tested enough before it was pushed out. I don't know if Barrett just thought this would be the baddest guy on the block (better than the 50) and wasn't aware that Cheytec was in the making. Don't know.
It would seem that the CT saw what the Barrett was, and had a clear picture how to make it more efficient from the get go.
I don't think there is really anything WRONG with the Barrett, but I consider it not much different than any other factory ammo. They are using a bullet that is probably middle of the road for the case design and caliber.
In my mind, it's like the 7mm and the .308 The 7mm is just doing more with less.
If you were to stuff a 475 grain sewing needle bullet into the Barret and send it at 3000, you'll have a winner.
Again, probably nothing WRONG with the Barret cartridge, but until someone starts pushing out better bullets and more test data, the CT gets the win.
It's been said for years...that the reason the CT dominates is absolutely due to the bullet design, and the reason it's popular is because of the powder consumption compared to the .50.
The .416 Barrett just wasn't tested enough before it was pushed out. I don't know if Barrett just thought this would be the baddest guy on the block (better than the 50) and wasn't aware that Cheytec was in the making. Don't know.
It would seem that the CT saw what the Barrett was, and had a clear picture how to make it more efficient from the get go.
I don't think there is really anything WRONG with the Barrett, but I consider it not much different than any other factory ammo. They are using a bullet that is probably middle of the road for the case design and caliber.
In my mind, it's like the 7mm and the .308 The 7mm is just doing more with less.
If you were to stuff a 475 grain sewing needle bullet into the Barret and send it at 3000, you'll have a winner.
Again, probably nothing WRONG with the Barret cartridge, but until someone starts pushing out better bullets and more test data, the CT gets the win.
Re: What`s wrong with the 416 Barrett?
Fairly common knowledge that the .416 was to keep a market in Kalifornia during the banning of the BMG. Barret still wanted a market in Kalifornia for the .50 but did not want to go the .50 DTC route.
Fairly common knowledge that the .416 was to keep a market in Kalifornia during the banning of the BMG. Barret still wanted a market in Kalifornia for the .50 but did not want to go the .50 DTC route.
Re: What`s wrong with the 416 Barrett?
ill have the info. shortly! i have a custom built 416B built with all match grade components. Tight neck chamber and custom built dies to match. i also have 480gr cutting edge bullets, which we think are going to be around a 1 BC. these bullets also have a bore rider built in. This has been a 2 1/2 year project and once the weather breaks ill have info. for you guys!
ill have the info. shortly! i have a custom built 416B built with all match grade components. Tight neck chamber and custom built dies to match. i also have 480gr cutting edge bullets, which we think are going to be around a 1 BC. these bullets also have a bore rider built in. This has been a 2 1/2 year project and once the weather breaks ill have info. for you guys!
Re: What`s wrong with the 416 Barrett?
Thanks for the response. Still learning all the terminology and everything that goes with this type of shooting. Good luck with the 416 from what I know about it sure seems like an awesome round hopefully everything gets worked out with the primer issue.
Thanks for the response. Still learning all the terminology and everything that goes with this type of shooting. Good luck with the 416 from what I know about it sure seems like an awesome round hopefully everything gets worked out with the primer issue.
Re: What`s wrong with the 416 Barrett?
Probably the only reason the 416 hasn't caught on more have to do with everything mentioned here... the CT can perform about as well and not use a necked down 50BMG derived case.
With the case capacity comes the weight of a 50 cal rifle. The CT rifles aren't nearly as heavy and ballistically keep up with this round and, if you get a 375CT, you can load it on your rockchucker press with magnum rifle primers and have a pretty large selection of projectiles to launch from it.
I have no idea of how many 416 projectiles are our there but, I imagine it's a short list.
I like the 416 round but, I'd hate to try to find components for it and load for it by buying a whole new set of reloading equipment to do it. The only thing I needed to reload for the CT round was to buy a high capacity case trimmer, the shell plate and the custom dies.
Not sure what kind of powder you'd use for it but, I'd imagine you'd want something slower than 50 caliber powder and, that's probably the main issue with not getting better performance from it's potential.... even if you did have the proper powder, you'd most likely need a LONG barrel too.
For now at least, the 375CT, 375 SnipeTac and 375 Versico Magnum seem to be at the top of the list for super performance, IMHO
Of the three rounds I have list above, it's not hard to get that 330gr bullet going 3200fps and have case capacity still in the CheyTac... it's the lowest performing round listed above. It's not hard to choose between a 20lb rifle and one based on a 50 caliber action, ( while using your old rockchucker to reload for it ), IMHO.
Hell, somebody correct me if I'm wrong but, I think Dave has the 375gr bullets going 3500 fps from the 375VM... I'm pretty sure you're teetering around the edge of man portable rifles and performance... at least for now with that kind of loading.
Probably the only reason the 416 hasn't caught on more have to do with everything mentioned here... the CT can perform about as well and not use a necked down 50BMG derived case.
With the case capacity comes the weight of a 50 cal rifle. The CT rifles aren't nearly as heavy and ballistically keep up with this round and, if you get a 375CT, you can load it on your rockchucker press with magnum rifle primers and have a pretty large selection of projectiles to launch from it.
I have no idea of how many 416 projectiles are our there but, I imagine it's a short list.
I like the 416 round but, I'd hate to try to find components for it and load for it by buying a whole new set of reloading equipment to do it. The only thing I needed to reload for the CT round was to buy a high capacity case trimmer, the shell plate and the custom dies.
Not sure what kind of powder you'd use for it but, I'd imagine you'd want something slower than 50 caliber powder and, that's probably the main issue with not getting better performance from it's potential.... even if you did have the proper powder, you'd most likely need a LONG barrel too.
For now at least, the 375CT, 375 SnipeTac and 375 Versico Magnum seem to be at the top of the list for super performance, IMHO
Of the three rounds I have list above, it's not hard to get that 330gr bullet going 3200fps and have case capacity still in the CheyTac... it's the lowest performing round listed above. It's not hard to choose between a 20lb rifle and one based on a 50 caliber action, ( while using your old rockchucker to reload for it ), IMHO.
Hell, somebody correct me if I'm wrong but, I think Dave has the 375gr bullets going 3500 fps from the 375VM... I'm pretty sure you're teetering around the edge of man portable rifles and performance... at least for now with that kind of loading.
Re: What`s wrong with the 416 Barrett?
If you check the history of both rounds development, I think you will find the CT has been around a lot longer than the 416 Barrett and had a lot more development time associated with it for both the 408 and 375 CTs. The 416 essentially tried to copy the CT using a 50 BMG case which made it easy in terms of drop in to existing Barrett rifles.
If you check the history of both rounds development, I think you will find the CT has been around a lot longer than the 416 Barrett and had a lot more development time associated with it for both the 408 and 375 CTs. The 416 essentially tried to copy the CT using a 50 BMG case which made it easy in terms of drop in to existing Barrett rifles.
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