What the hell just happened?

[MAGA4LIFE]

can anyone please tell me what and how this happened. I took my AR-10 to the range yesterday . sighting in my scope @100 I brought some hand loads with me. ALL loaded to Manufacturer Specs. I had some Nosler, some Hornady, Sierra, and Berger bullets ,,, 10 of each. loaded with varying powder charges... All within specs. I loaded my 10 round mag ,, slapped it in , charged the rifle and Click ,,,, nothing .... ejected it ,,small mark on the primer but nothing to indicate it was struck hard. racked another one is and CLICK ,,,,,, again . At this point I dropped the mag , hand loaded one into the chamber and closed the bolt ,, pulled the trigger and BANG , she goes off. Ok from that point i would load the first one by hand ,, then slap the mag in and it seemed to run fine.

Now,,, this is what I do not understand. On the last shot . I did the sam thing , hand loaded the first round, sent the bolt home , slapped the mag in and fired the rifle. As SOON as it went off I KNEW something was wrong. No reciprocation, no ejection , just a bigger than normal bang and recoil . The bolt was LOCKED in the battery position ,,, That ended my day and when I got it home it took and hour of tapping, smacking , and working to get it opened. and when i did ,,, I found the case was damn near seized onto the bolt face and had to be pried off . I've been reloading now for well over 4 years and have loaded THOUSANDS of rounds , both pistol and rifle . But I've NEVER seen this happen . the case was a once fired 6.5 cm case ,, cleaned resized and reloaded to proper COL. 2.800 The case was blown apart at the base,... it even bent the extractor . ( see pics) ... the chamber was undamaged , as was the carrier but the bolt took some damage, I've re ordered another bolt. So ,,, with all that being said ,, does anyone know WTF happened? you can even see where the pressure was so high it flowed the brass back into the hole where the ejector is, and pushed the ejector flush with the bolt face. Th FUK just happened?

 

[beretta_man11]

Are the loads that you had in the mag the same as the one that blew? If so, maybe pull the bullets and re-weigh everything.

 

[MAGA4LIFE]

Are the loads that you had in the mag the same as the one that blew? If so, maybe pull the bullets and re-weigh everything.

I loaded several 10 round groups..... example,, 10 of the Hornady 147 gn with 38.5 gn of IMR 4350. 10 rounds of the nosler 130 gn with win760.. ETC. but I think thats the way to go to ,,, pull em all , just want to know WHY that happened? i know you cannot DOUBLE CHARGE a case so what happened?

 

[Eric32]

Is there a thin line around the base of the case? I think your headspace might be way off causing a separation of the case.

 

[Precision Underground]

Are these the first rounds fired from the gun? Did you check headspace? If the headspace is too large the extractor will have trouble grabbing the case. It can also halfway grab it and cause it to stick out and keep the bolt from opening. I can see this causing exactly what happened here.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I’d go with a headspace problem. Also helps explain the light primer strikes.

but first... Is the gun going fully into battery as well? I ask because if your small base dies are not getting the cases “small enough” to go into your chamber, you might be getting hang-ups. Not enough to make it disconnect the sear. But enough to make your head stick out of the chamber or remain unsupported. That can also mess with things in a bad way.

Check brass is trimmed, small base resized fully and chamber clean. Unlike a bolt gun, the handloads have to be very loose as they go into the chamber on an ar10 as you have no positive cam action of closing a bolt to seat a slightly tight cartridge.

Reminds me.... bullet depth? Hitting the lands? or even carbon in the throat area? Another possible cause.

Glad it was not worse. Ar10s can be finicky with handloads. I know mine is. But it runs lake city match like they were born for each other!!

Cheers, Sirhr

 

[acudaowner]

the universe hates you . Good luck on finding out they why it did that .

 

[MAGA4LIFE]

Is there a thin line around the base of the case? I think your headspace might be way off causing a separation of the case.

I attached some pics... what say you ?

 

[MAGA4LIFE]

I’d go with a headspace problem. Also helps explain the light primer strikes.

but first... Is the gun going fully into battery as well? I ask because if you’re small base dies are not getting the cases “small enough” to go into your chamber, you might be getting hang-ups. Not enough to make it disconnect the seat. But enough to make your head stick out of the chamber or remain unsupported. that can also mess with things in a bad way.

Check brass is trimmed, small base resized fully and chamber clean. unlike a bolt gun, the handloads have to be very loose as they go into the chamber on an ar10 as you have no positive cam to seat a slightly tight cartridge.

Reminds me.... bullet depth? Hitting the lands? or even carbon in the throat area? Another possible cause.

Glad it was not worse. Ar10s can be finicky with handloads. I know mine is. But it runs lake city match like they were born for each other!!

Cheers, Sirhr

Thanks man I appreciate that ,, I had the thing cerakoted and my guy took the barrel off to do it,, I'm thinking he it may be a problem with the head space when he put it back together .

 

[Eric32]

In the last picture I kinda see a little bit. But another way to find out is a bent paper clip. Shoving that down a fired case and feeling for a ring on the inside near the base and the base wall.


The rest of the pictures are suggesting that you are not getting enough sizing on the case base to go into battery.

Are these virgin cases? Only fired in the ar-10?

 

[MAGA4LIFE]

the universe hates you . Good luck on finding out they why it did that .

the universe may hate me but your MOM LOOOOOOOVES me ,, well PARTS of me .

 

[MAGA4LIFE]

In the last picture I kinda see a little bit. But another way to find out is a bent paper clip. Shoving that down a fired case and feeling for a ring on the inside near the base and the base wall.


The rest of the pictures are suggesting that you are not getting enough sizing on the case base to go into battery.

Are these virgin cases? Only fired in the ar-10?

they are once fired winchester cases that were run up in a resizing die, are you saying that the case isn't going up into the resizing die far enough?

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I attached some pics... what say you ?View attachment 7239392View attachment 7239393

I would have the headspace checked out, but also check your dies. I am going to go with oversized brass.

One thing about sb dies is you have to get right up inside them. If you have a thick shell holder or a die that is a bit long your case may be oversized.

When setting the die in your press, use a feeler gauge! You might even need a different sizer die brand. Or have someone with a lathe and a carbide tool turn 0.025 off the bottom of your die.

Check with headspace gauge, but imho here, start with your sizing.

Question... does factory ammo give any issues at all???

Cheers, Sirhr

 

[Eric32]

Winchester case what where they fired in before?

Possibly on the base to case datum line you might be fine length wise. But what I am thinking these where not sized at the base.

What my next thought is you might have a AR-10 with a tighter that normal chamber.

BUT I think your die isn't sizing at the base properly.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

they are once fired winchester cases that were run up in a resizing die, are you saying that the case isn't going up into the resizing die far enough?

Possibly, yes.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

Possibly fired out of battery?

Was the bolt fully closed? I've had a rifle that was pretty dirty and when I released the charge handle, the bolt wouldn't fully close, but it was pretty close that I almost didn't notice it.

Your brass would separate, similarly to what's in your photos.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

And this a stupid question... you are using small base resizing die, right? Not a standard die?

Sirhr

 

[squib]

In the image of the complete case it looks like the neck has a split?

 

[MAGA4LIFE]

I would have the headspace checked out, but also check your dies. I am going to go with oversized brass.

One thing about sb dies is you have to get right up inside them. If you have a thick shell holder or a die that is a bit long your case may be oversized.

When setting the die in your press, use a feeler gauge! You might even need a different sizer die brand. Or have someone with a lathe and a carbide tool turn 0.025 off the bottom of your die.

Check with headspace gauge, but imho here, start with your sizing.

Question... does factory ammo give any issues at all???

Cheers, Sirhr

no the winchester ammo ran just fine,,, no issues at all, the reloads would not fire when fed through the mag. but would when hand fed. how can i check the head space on this ? please advise

 

[MAGA4LIFE]

The brass extrusion shows the round was way over pressure.
Have you ever fired factory ammo through this rifle?
What does the bolt look like?
Is the barrel extension damaged?
What were the handloads you were using? AR10's will blow primers and do stupid shit with powder charges that are mild in a bolt action.
What is the barrel length and gas tube length?
Like the others asked did U check head space?

will send pics of the bolt face directly stand by

 

[MAGA4LIFE]

will send pics of the bolt face directly stand by

heres the bolt face

 

[MAGA4LIFE]

will send pics of the bolt face directly stand by

i have a match ss 24" heavy bull barrel

 

[JMGlasgow]

Here is what you need to check rifle headspace and to set your resizing die so you aren't under or over sizing brass.

Amazon.com : Forster Products 6.5 Creedmoor Headspace Gauge Set GO and NO-GO : Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com : Forster Products 6.5 Creedmoor Headspace Gauge Set GO and NO-GO : Sports & Outdoors

www.amazon.com

HORNADY COMPARATOR/SET w/14 INSERTS (17-458cal) - Graf & Sons

Easily attaches to the blade of your caliper with a thumbscrew and uses interchangeable insert bushings to measure from the bullet ogive. Includes the Lock-N-Load Comparator body and all 14 bullet inserts for bullet diameters: .172", .204", .224" (5.56mm), .243" (6mm), .257", .264", .277"...

www.grafs.com

I would also use other brass besides Winchester. I've seen the same type of blowout with once fired Winchester brass and it wasn't a hot load either.

 

[918v]

You should measure the shoulder length of your fired cases and bump it .004”

Use a .40S&W case inverted over the 6.5 case.

Then chamber the sized case by hand and let the bolt fly, but not from the locked position. Get up close on the case, maybe two thirds of the way there. The bolt needs to close easily on a chambered case.

Another possibility causing your blown case was bullet setback upon chambering. Deeper bullet, higher pressure, boom!

 

[MAGA4LIFE]

no the winchester ammo ran just fine,,, no issues at all, the reloads would not fire when fed through the mag. but would when hand fed. how can i check the head space on this ? please advise

what do you mean ? Oversized brass? you saying that my resizing die is not resizing the WHOLE case?

 

[Kadams1563]

Uhh that bolt looks terrible. Maybe just the pick but it looks trashed.

what barrel manufacture?
What BCG?
What upper receiver?

this day in age buy quality parts and almost NEVER have a problem. I can’t tell you how many AR’s I have assembled and have friends assembled and never had an headspace issue.

with that being said my Dillon .223 dies don’t seems to size more then .002. I can’t get them to .004.

 

[MAGA4LIFE]

The brass extrusion shows the round was way over pressure.
Have you ever fired factory ammo through this rifle?
What does the bolt look like?
Is the barrel extension damaged?
What were the handloads you were using? AR10's will blow primers and do stupid shit with powder charges that are mild in a bolt action.
What is the barrel length and gas tube length?
Like the others asked did U check head space?

 

[Eric32]

Yes i am speaking to the sizing die doesnt match the chamber.

For this particular rifle you will be best served by a small base die.

 

[MAGA4LIFE]

Uhh that bolt looks terrible. Maybe just the pick but it looks trashed.

what barrel manufacture?
What BCG?
What upper receiver?

this day in age buy quality parts and almost NEVER have a problem. I can’t tell you how many AR’s I have assembled and have friends assembled and never had an headspace issue.

with that being said my Dillon .223 dies don’t seems to size more then .002. I can’t get them to .004.

the complete upper is Aero precision as is the Bolt, match grade Heavy SS 24" bull barrel

 

[Kadams1563]

Is the ejector not stuck in the bolt? Looks flat in the pic.

 

[MAGA4LIFE]

Yes i am speaking to the sizing die doesnt match the chamber.

For this particular rifle you will be best served by a small base die.

makes no sense to me .lol what am i looking at ?

 

[Eric32]

You need to squeeze the case more at the base rather than the headspace.

 

[High Desert duck]

What kind of neck tension are you using? Any crimp? Could it be bullet set back.

 

[srt-4_uk]

Thanks man I appreciate that ,, I had the thing cerakoted and my guy took the barrel off to do it,, I'm thinking he it may be a problem with the head space when he put it back together .

Dont blame the cerakote guy. That's not how headspace works on an AR.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Here is what you need to check rifle headspace and to set your resizing die so you aren't under or over sizing brass.

Amazon.com : Forster Products 6.5 Creedmoor Headspace Gauge Set GO and NO-GO : Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com : Forster Products 6.5 Creedmoor Headspace Gauge Set GO and NO-GO : Sports & Outdoors

www.amazon.com

HORNADY COMPARATOR/SET w/14 INSERTS (17-458cal) - Graf & Sons

Easily attaches to the blade of your caliper with a thumbscrew and uses interchangeable insert bushings to measure from the bullet ogive. Includes the Lock-N-Load Comparator body and all 14 bullet inserts for bullet diameters: .172", .204", .224" (5.56mm), .243" (6mm), .257", .264", .277"...

www.grafs.com

I would also use other brass besides Winchester. I've seen the same type of blowout with once fired Winchester brass and it wasn't a hot load either.

^^^ What he said.

I would get some better brass. Lapua, Black Hills, similar. You don't mess around with high-pressure cartridges in semi's. Bolt guns are forgiving. Alloy semi's do bad bad things!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[nn8734]

makes no sense to me .lol what am i looking at ?

For someone that has been reloading at least four years, that drawing in Eric32’s post should make perfect sense to you. Also never use Winchester brass in semis.

 

[srt-4_uk]

Possibly fired out of battery?

Was the bolt fully closed? I've had a rifle that was pretty dirty and when I released the charge handle, the bolt wouldn't fully close, but it was pretty close that I almost didn't notice it.

You cant fire an AR with it out of battery. Either the hammer wont hit the firing pin, or the firing pin wont reach the primer.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

If you are not using a Small Base sizing die... there is your problem!

The die MUST have engraved on it "Small Base" or S.B. depending on the maker.

On ANY semi rifle, reloading requires a small base die.

The bolt guns, you can get away with neck sizing for several firings because the camming action of the bolt will crush the case into the chamber (I am over simplifying) and provide a very tight fit = very repeatable (aka accurate) handloads. Semiautomatics MUST fully chamber the round so that the extractor can snap over the rim, the bolt can move forward and the lock cams can engage... without ANY interference.

So if you use a die for a bolt gun in an semi-auto... you get exactly the result you saw above.

Don't bother with headspacing until you A. Clean that bolt up! That face has enough crap on it to keep it from fully closing. B. Check if you have SMALL BASE dies and that the cartridge is fully sizing for a semi-auto!

You are on the right track and don't feel bad... this is not the first time this sort of thing has happened and nor will it be the last. I have an AR-10 and it is a cast-iron bitch to handload for. I ultimately gave up. And fire factory ammo only.

We'll help you through this! No worries!

EDIT: See below for some more up-to-date info on the need for SB dies in 'all' semi-autos. This is not true across the board. Modern chambers, tolerances, etc. allow properly-set-up FL dies to function in Semi's fine according to more recent practice. In short... I need to get out more ;-) Thanks to everyone for contributing to a great thread!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

You cant fire an AR with it out of battery. Either the hammer wont hit the firing pin, or the firing pin wont reach the primer.

Remember in his first post, though, he said he had an initial light primer strike. You CAN fire "Almost" out of battery. And if the locking lugs are only partly engaged... bad things can happen.

I think there are enough clues now that we aren't looking at headspace. Or that is the last thing to check.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[nn8734]

If you are not using a Small Base sizing die... there is your problem!

On ANY semi rifle, reloading requires a small base die.

Cheers,

Sirhr

Agree, I use an RCBS SB dies for my semis. Some here will argue (and bitch) whenever this sort of thing is said but I’ve been using them for years on suppressed 7.62 and 5.56 AR platforms and never had an issue.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

For someone that has been reloading at least four years, that drawing in Eric32’s post should make perfect sense to you. Also never use Winchester brass in semis.

NN... Plenty of folks who have loaded for bolt guns never came across small base dies... I'd been reloading for almost a decade when I got my first AR in 1988 and started to handload for it. No Internet back then. And my reloading manual was 20 years out of date. My reloading mentor, Paul, was my savior on that... and made sure I bought Small Base dies. And had no problem. Before that, I had a M700 Varmint in .223 and my dies were... not small base. Quick trip to the gun shop and I got the small base die that I still use tens of thousands of rounds later.

Lots of nuances in reloading. And one can be a master for a benchrest gun, and suddenly an AR-10 is a nest of snakes. I know my AR-10 (custom build match gun) has given me fits!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[srt-4_uk]

Remember in his first post, though, he said he had an initial light primer strike. You CAN fire "Almost" out of battery. And if the locking lugs are only partly engaged... bad things can happen.

I think there are enough clues now that we aren't looking at headspace. Or that is the last thing to check.

Cheers,

Sirhr

You cannot fire it if the bolt lugs arent at least partially locked, which means the case is fully in battery.
Remember, the carrier moves back well before the bolt fully unlocks. The firing pin stops reaching before the bolt fully unlocks. I agree that partial lug contact is bad for the long term life of the bolt. That's why people lap the receiver face.

 

[nn8734]

NN... Plenty of folks who have loaded for bolt guns never came across small base dies... I'd been reloading for almost a decade when I got my first AR in 1989 and started to handload for it. No Internet back then. And my reloading manual was 20 years out of date. My reloading mentor, Paul, was my savior on that... and made sure I bought Small Base dies. And had no problem. Before that, I had a M700 Varmint in .223 and my dies were... not small base. Quick trip to the gun shop and I got the small base die that I still use tens of thousands of rounds later.

Lots of nuances in reloading. And one can be a master for a benchrest gun, and suddenly an AR-10 is a nest of snakes. I know my AR-10 (custom build match gun) has given me fits!

Cheers,

Sirhr

The chamber pressure curve is more volatile in a semi auto compared to a bolt gun; once you are just a tad on the high side of pressure, it lets you know. A load that works great in a bolt gun may be way too much for the semi.

When working up loads for anything, I measure all my unfired rounds at the base of the case, just above the extractor groove then measure again after firing...any expansion beyond .0015 and I know I am over pressure and back the load off by .2-.3g

 

[sirhrmechanic]

what do you mean ? Oversized brass? you saying that my resizing die is not resizing the WHOLE case?

Exactly. And it MAY be resizing the whole case... if it is going in a bolt gun. See earlier comments.

The point of a small base die is that it makes the case even smaller... so it is guaranteed to fit into the chamber on a semi... far enough that the bolt can close without any 'extra' pressure of a bolt operated by hand. While the springs in an AR may seem strong (and there is momentum from the bolt slamming forward) the semi auto will NOT press a case into its chamber.

So the purpose of the small base die is to make sure the cartridge goes in and might even 'rattle around' a few thousandths to allow the bolt to close. On firing, the case will expand, momentarily 'stick' itself to the chamber walls and seal, then shrink back to its 'larger' fired state (it expanded beyond its elastic limit, so will not return to its original size). When the case walls retract after pressure drops some, the walls of the cartridge release from the chamber walls, allowing it to be extracted. When you resize, you have to shrink the brass back to a size that will guarantee it chambers.

In addition, your bullet seating depth matters. A lot. Because if the ogive of the bullet makes contact with the rifling or with crud in the chamber throat, then you have a similar problem. The case sticks out the back of the chamber enough to keep the rifle from going fully into battery. Again, with a bolt gun, getting that bullet to 'just touch' the rifling is a great way to increase your accuracy. On a semi, it's a bad thing! One of the reason most semi's can't 'quite' be tuned to the accuracy of a tier-one bolt gun. I say most. They are getting better.

Anyway... hope that helps. You need an SB die. And need to clean that bolt face and, perhaps, your throat area.

I wouldn't be looking at headspace yet. If it's running with factory ammo, you need to look at your reloads.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

The chamber pressure curve is more volatile in a semi auto compared to a bolt gun; once you are just a tad on the high side pressure of pressure, it lets you know. A load that works great in a bolt gun may be way too much for the semi.

When working up loads for anything, I measure all my unfired rounds at the base of the case, just above the extractor groove then measure again after firing...any expansion beyond .0015 and I know I am over pressure and back the load off by .2-.3g

Very good advice as well!!!!

I started loading for my first Semi AR in 1988. No Interwebs. Very, very small community of people loading for those things. But there were some good books. But as a starving recent-college graduate... I could buy 2 pounds of powder and 1000 bullets... or a loading manual. Guess which I did?

There is, fortunately, a ton of good info out there now. Much of it here. If Doc76251's "Reloading Basics" posts are still here, they remain some of the best material ever published on the Internet for getting into reloading for precision. They used to be a sticky in the reloading area. Doc was not just the master of the reloading side of things... he could put it into terms everyone could understand!

Thanks NN!

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

You cannot fire it if the bolt lugs arent at least partially locked, which means the case is fully in battery.
Remember, the carrier moves back well before the bolt fully unlocks. The firing pin stops reaching before the bolt fully unlocks. I agree that partial lug contact is bad for the long term life of the bolt. That's why people lap the receiver face.

We are in violent agreement! Right on.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[nn8734]

Very good advice as well!!!!

I started loading for my first Semi AR in 1988. No Interwebs. Very, very small community of people loading for those things. But there were some good books. But as a starving recent-college graduate... I could buy 2 pounds of powder and 1000 bullets... or a loading manual. Guess which I did?

There is, fortunately, a ton of good info out there now. Much of it here. If Doc76251's "Reloading Basics" posts are still here, they remain some of the best material ever published on the Internet for getting into reloading for precision. They used to be a sticky in the reloading area. Doc was not just the master of the reloading side of things... he could put it into terms everyone could understand!

Thanks NN!

Cheers,

Sirhr

Thanks, @sirhrmechanic, and likewise!
I was around in the age with no net but can’t imagine life without it now, haha. I also have quite a few reloading manuals/books but the web has made them collect dust to some extent.

I believe Doc’s tutorial is still out there and well worth the read.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Lots of good information here.

What does the back side of the bolt lugs look like?

@sirhrmechanic and others. How would a partial bolt lock or even the lack of SB die sizing cause the over pressure and catastrophic failure?

Imo, this looks like maybe the bullets jamming the lands and or an over charge.

Just spitballing here but if your jamming the bullet, it could cause the bolt to not go into battery enough to fire and thus explain you FTF from the mag. Single round fed and sending it home would definently cause more closing force to be applied vs a mag fed. But it just jams it more or pushing the bullet into the case increasing pressure.

Measure your hand loads BTO vs factory loads.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

One more bit of advice... while there is TONS of load data out on the Internet... use Reagan't motto: "Trust but Verify." My reloading books are front and center. And I keep an up-to-date one handy as well.

Any reload data from the Internet is only as good as the person posting it. Most are probably excellent, thoughtful and careful reloaders. But it only takes one twat-waffle sitting at his reloading bench in nothing but a muscle shirt and a pair of Flip-flops with a mickey of Wild Turkey and a can of Bullseye who thinks he has developed a round that will achieve escape velocity and shoot down the Space Station.... " and posts it up to his Internetwebs. And suddenly you have something not just stupid but dangerous.

The good thing about a book is that it comes from a company that develops the standards. It is reviewed. it is the result of millions of rounds and 'decades' of testing. And, yes, it is conservative. If I compare the same loads from my 1960's loading manuals to my modern ones... the loads are all definitely more conservative! Even with the same components and charges. Maybe they've changed over the years... but I suspect lawyers and a more litigious society make the companies cautious.

And, yes, I will occasionally go back to an 'old' manual to see what the maximum's are. But since the most accurate loads are generally nowhere near the top pressures, I rarely see a need for higher-end rounds. On the other hand, I have a 9mm AR pistol that likes 'hot' loads to cycle. So going back to an old manual gave me something that makes it run like a top!

But, folks, reloading manuals are cheap, easy to buy and they all have 300 pages of load data and 100 pages of HOW to reload! Those pages are gold! The Internet is a great place to search for a lot of stuff. But be cautious about using Internet Data without hard-copy backup of the 'recommendations' you are fed.

Just my two percent of a dollar. YMMV, Offer not valid on Guam. As seen on TV, etc.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[sirhrmechanic]

One more bit of advice... while there is TONS of load data out on the Internet... use Reagan't motto: "Trust but Verify." My reloading books are front and center. And I keep an up-to-date one handy as well.

Any reload data from the Internet is only as good as the person posting it. Most are probably excellent, thoughtful and careful reloaders. But it only takes one twat-waffle sitting at his reloading bench in nothing but a muscle shirt and a pair of Flip-flops with a mickey of Wild Turkey and a can of Bullseye who thinks he has developed a round that will achieve escape velocity and shoot down the Space Station.... " and posts it up to his Internetwebs. And suddenly you have something not just stupid but dangerous.

The good thing about a book is that it comes from a company that develops the standards. It is reviewed. it is the result of millions of rounds and 'decades' of testing. And, yes, it is conservative. If I compare the same loads from my 1960's loading manuals to my modern ones... the loads are all definitely more conservative! Even with the same components and charges. Maybe they've changed over the years... but I suspect lawyers and a more litigious society make the companies cautious.

And, yes, I will occasionally go back to an 'old' manual to see what the maximum's are. But since the most accurate loads are generally nowhere near the top pressures, I rarely see a need for higher-end rounds. On the other hand, I have a 9mm AR pistol that likes 'hot' loads to cycle. So going back to an old manual gave me something that makes it run like a top!

But, folks, reloading manuals are cheap, easy to buy and they all have 300 pages of load data and 100 pages of HOW to reload! Those pages are gold! The Internet is a great place to search for a lot of stuff. But be cautious about using Internet Data without hard-copy backup of the 'recommendations' you are fed.

Just my two percent of a dollar. YMMV, Offer not valid on Guam. As seen on TV, etc.

Cheers,

Sirhr

P.S. Keep NOTES on your loads. Label everything. Every box of bullets comes with more labels than you need for... a box of bullets! Save and use them. Keep a notebook or use pages in your Databook. Record everything. What dies you used. OAL (everyone keeps a Vernier in your reloading room, right?) I also keep a clip-board hanging in my reloading room an on that is my 'reloading schedule.' If i want 1,000 .300 BLK's, to shoot next summer, I will write that down with all the details of WHAT I am loading. I Put down load I plan on using with components needed. That way I can check my inventory and make sure I have enough of the right components so when I start, I don't run out. I don't put a "when I am going to reload it" date. I'll get to it. And after I reload that lineitem, I will cross the line out, but with a Thin Line. So I can still read it. I can go back years on that clipboard and know what I loaded and what loads I used. It all part of keeping records on your handloads. Because once they are in an ammo can... what were they again??? Label and record everything!!!!