Advanced Marksmanship What would cause this?

[jacq220]

I began my load development for my savage 10. its a 24 inch 1x10 barrel w/ muzzle break. I have been trying to work up a 155 scenar load at the upper end of the spectrum (2850fps+) and am not getting my desired results.

when i first shot this rifle i shot three ten shot groups, w/ 168 FGMM the last group being right at .5 inchs. i had one flier opening the group to 1 moa but i put an 11th shot in the same hole as the others so i discounted the one (called) flier.

so the guns shooting so so (the other two groups were JUST sub moa w/ 10 shot groups) began working up a load and i found the best results at 46 grains of varget which even though i dont know what velocity it is (no chrono at that range) i think its going to be slower. either way out of the 40 or so 5 shot groups i made i kept seeing two distincly different groups. three in one hole, then two in another, most total sizes were around 1 moa some being slightly more.

my cheek piece was pretty flimsy and i am thinking that it may have been a parrelex issue w/ my cheek not going to the same place. so i am thinking that may cause the two differant groups. another theory is the 155s were too light for a 10 twist barrel.

the action was sitting an an aluminum accustock which works great but is not for me, so i have a manners t4 coming w/ pillars and it will be glass in.

am i expecting to much out of the rifle? should i go w/ something heavier? was it the changing cheek weld? 1/2 moa to 3/4 moa consistantly would be exceptable but i need a decent velocity for my class coming up where we will be shooting to 1,025 yards.

is my new stock REALLY going to make that much of a differance?

anyways, since i dont have a rifle to just take to the range now (waiting on a stock) i guess i will try and hash out my concerns here on the hide.

the reason i put this in this section was to get comments specifically about the cheek weld/stock causing my problems, but i can post this in a differant section if you guys think that will be a better place.

I also ruled ME out of the equastion. after i got similar results over and over w/ the 155's i ran out of bullets to try, so hopped on a buddies custom stiller action and right off the bat in the same position range shot a sub .5 moa group.

thanks for the input, now that i can't shoot and figure it out for myself, cabin fever is starting to set in.

 

[SavageSlayer]

Re: What would cause this?

Hey JACQ,

I have a Savage 10 FP with 24" barrel in .308 with 1:10 twist. I shoot the 155 Scenars with 45.4 gr. of Varget and get a consistent 2800 +/- 10 fps out of my loads. I use Lapua brass and CCI BR-2 primers. I think you will be getting the velocity you are looking for in your loads.

I think your problem could be from cheek weld issues and perhaps grip issues. I have recently been working on my shooting position and technique. I was getting the same results you were with 3 in the same hole and 2 others about 1/2 to 3/4 MOA away. Mine were always slinging to the left and I noticed that my rifles POA would always be to the left after recoil. I was told not to push so hard on the stock with my cheek and make sure everything in nice and relaxed.

I read the posts in this thread and watched the videos on youtube put on there by Sniper's Hide. I learned a lot. I started practicing and emplementing what I was reading and seeing and it worked to great effect. This last weekend I shot a ragged one hole 10 shot group that was probably about 3/4 MOA maybe less at 100. In fact, I shot several 5 shot + groups that were all less than 3/4 MOA one less than 1/2 MOA. I had one that was greater then 1 MOA because of a called flier. I jerked the trigger and sent it low and right.

After employing the new techiniques, I noticed my POA does not shift off of the original POA by very much at all after recoil and follow through. Before, there were times I would loose sight of the target after recoil and follow through.

Hope this helps.

 

[jacq220]

Re: What would cause this?

could have been a ME issue, but i am leaning against that since i was able to shoot a 10 shot 1/2 minute group w/ factory ammo. and i shot another 1/2 minute group same day differant rifle. ill admit i skipped the 45's all together. 46 shot so well i started there and worked up... might just need to back it down a tad and go from 45.5-46 and see what happens.... i have some 175 smk's and 178 hornady bthp's coming, and dont know if i can justify another 50 dollars in 155s since after 100 of them i couldnt get them to shoot.... also a new savage factory barrel... possibly break in?

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: What would cause this?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JACQ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">could have been a ME issue, but i am leaning against that since i was able to shoot a 10 shot 1/2 minute group w/ factory ammo. and i shot another 1/2 minute group same day differant rifle. ill admit i skipped the 45's all together. 46 shot so well i started there and worked up... might just need to back it down a tad and go from 45.5-46 and see what happens.... i have some 175 smk's and 178 hornady bthp's coming, and dont know if i can justify another 50 dollars in 155s since after 100 of them i couldnt get them to shoot.... also a new savage factory barrel... possibly break in?</div></div>

Dude, make no mistake, unless your ammunition and/or rifle is defective, the bullet will always go in the direction the barrel is pointed. Of course, that should be obvious, but laying blame on the equipment here makes me think you may want to revisit that fact. Shooting error is always about YOU. And, from what you've described, I'd say you have a parallax and/or a control issue. However, only by calling the shot, and plotting the call/strike corollary for each shot will you be able to properly analyse shooter/target error. Remember too, your control must be consistent: stock-weld, elbows, non-firing hand, butt-to-shoulder, and grip must be maintained from shot to shot until recoil has subsided, through conscientious follow-through. I'm not doggin' ya, but, you do need to get on track, as right now, you are being distracted by things that are not important. And, even if groups were to be of a size acceptable to you, it would be largely from your intuitive capability, which would unravel at distances where intuitive shooting no longer works.