Gunsmithing What would you do?

[BrianOravetz]

I'm at a loss here.
Last March, I was getting spun up to go on a big game trip to Africa, so naturally that's a great excuse to get a gun made. So I did. I went to an outfit called C-Precision in Dallas GA. (Mods if name needs to be removed, I'm happy to do so, or obviously your powers of deletion). I ordered a 300wm on A MacMillan A4, and loaded out on components. The owner tells me that it'll take him a month to even get started, but promised delivery in two months.

Fast forward till yesterday, I went to finally pick my gun up. yes, you read that right. Literally over a year later and he finally lets me know the gun is done. In that time, I did not sit silently pining for my gun. Starting on 3/30, when it was obvious travel was going to be blocked, I requested a refund. Mind you, at that point, he didn't even start working on the gun. He ignored my email requesting the refund. He subsequently ignored another 10 emails, a few texts and a few phone calls all requesting a refund or at the very least some sort of status. Not a damn thing.

So the hunting trip was rescheduled to be a big game trip here in the States last October/November. The guy that referred me to him, pissed, went into the shop to find out WTF was going on; and he made the guy call me on the spot. The guy said that he'd have the gun done by the time the rescheduled hunt went down. The hunt went off, but guess who could not go because the smith failed to deliver again; me. I prepaid for ammo, food, room, board, transport and airfare. Guess what I'm out? The money for all that stuff.

So I go up to get the damn gun yesterday, thinking at least I'll have a bad ass new magic wand. F-no... He hands me this thing that looked like every other Rem 700 on a gun shop rack somewhere. No MacMillan A4 stock, no threaded barrel, and it was that cheap ass looking, black stock that comes on any base rifle. His response is... well... It's what has me pissed.

I told him the rifle is wrong and why. He said "Not my fault, or my problem, it was delayed". He literally did nothing on it for over a year until the guy who referred him to me went into his shop and chastised him. Not only is he currently refusing to at least put it in the correct stock, he's telling me that I owe him $700 more! He missed the delivery date of two months by a full year, he caused me to miss the trip that the rifle was purchased for, as well as losing the cash for the pre-paid expenses.

As of right now, he's giving me the finger. I'm going to small claims, however here is the issue that I have. Last year was tumultuous and my copy of the receipt is "somewhere". When we were in the shop writing down the specs, my friend was also in there. And I did tell him what stock I wanted in OD, and to use black for some camo contrast (I'm an old Army guy, no need for fancy). He didn't write that down on the receipt, and because I was making the mistake of thinking we were among friends, I didn't hover over him writing that receipt and therefor it's my word against his on the stock issue.

I was paying to have something similar to a piece that I had in another life. I am not a fan of black Rem700 aesthetic, it reminds me off a cheap BB gun. So I am positive of what I told him I wanted.

What would you do?

 

[pmclaine]

What does your written contract indicate?

What? Dont have one?

 

[powdahound76]

I wouldnt post on the internet.

 

[hafejd30]

If you don’t have it in writing then it never happened

 

[Im2bent]

As for missing the hunt because this rifle was not ready, what you don't have any other rifles or your buddy that refered this guy could not loan you one? If I had spent that kind of money on the trip I would have taken what ever i could get my hands on and enjoy the trip/hunt. As for the rest of it did you pay him anything up front? If not don't pay a dime. If you paid with a cc and still within the dispute time frame dispute. If all else fails take him to small claims court. Its you said he said as far as how it was built but I think you can prevail based on the time frame involved and the email trail of refund requests that were ignored. Also if your buddy was present when you told the guy what you wanted and can get him to back you up in court that could tip the scales of justice in your favor.

 

[BrianOravetz]

To those saying "no contract" didn't happen, guys, I get that. Which is why I'm asking the question here in the event that someone's had something similar happen. That said, I do have the receipt/contract, it's a matter of finding it; but the past year was tumultuous on top of Covid. I almost took a forever sleep thanks to a TBI awarded by some teens who played "The knockout game" on the left side of my skull; and I went through a divorce.

@Im2bent thank you for that. Yes, I could have borrowed a rifle, and would have if the lockdowns did not occur. I used the lockdown wait to try to get a hold of this guy. He never answered his phone, emails, texts; and the shop was 60 miles away. Where I live, traffic makes that a hard trip. So when the hunt got repositioned from Africa to Colorado, I upped my efforts to find the guy. My friend went to his house, got him on the phone, and I thought it would be a chance to still get the gun; so he promised to have the gun to me within the month. That month came and went, so did the hunt. The loss of funds was that I missed the cut off to get $$ back for the hunt because of the timing he agreed to, promising to get the gun to me. Which left no time to borrow a gun.

Small claims seems to be the way to go. My buddy that knows him has agreed to speak on my behalf if that's necessary. It's a shame because this guy is REALLY good when he's "on" apparently. I've seen his other work, and the people that actually got their guns are happy with them.

 

[Maurygold]

what did you pay? where is the work contact?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

If what you’re saying is true, that’s fucked.

The hunt is not his fault though. You should have had a backup plan for a rifle when going on a hunt, hell you should have had a contingency plan for a backup rifle for a hunt even if you did have the rifle in time. You could have very easily bought, borrowed, or used another rifle for your hunt.

You’re not completely fucked without a receipt but it would make things a whole hell of a lot easier if you can find it.

 

[theLBC]

ask him if he wants to work at a massage parlor.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Yes, I could have borrowed a rifle, and would have if the lockdowns did not occur. I used the lockdown wait to try to get a hold of this guy. He never answered his phone, emails, texts; and the shop was 60 miles away. Where I live, traffic makes that a hard trip. So when the hunt got repositioned from Africa to Colorado, I upped my efforts to find the guy. My friend went to his house, got him on the phone, and I thought it would be a chance to still get the gun; so he promised to have the gun to me within the month. That month came and went, so did the hunt. The loss of funds was that I missed the cut off to get $$ back for the hunt because of the timing he agreed to, promising to get the gun to me. Which left no time to borrow a gun.

Ok, this whole thing right here stinks.

The shop is 60 miles away from you, this guy is building you a custom rifle so he should have thousands of dollars of your money, and he's ignoring your calls and emails for months and you don't go to his shop? 60 miles is nothing, I know a few people who get up every morning and commute 3hr to work, yes 3 damn hours each way every day of the week. 600 miles wouldn't be too far to go to the guys shop in this event, let alone 60. This is a huge red flag to me and makes me think there's more too it, not even the biggest push over in the world wouldn't just go see whats going on, if the place closed up, guy had and accident, or something... but for months you didn't go there...

Which is it though, did you not go on the hunt because of the lockdowns or did you not go on the hunt because you didn't have a rifle? You start the quoted paragraph by making it sound like you either couldn't borrow a rifle due to the lockdowns or didn't go because of the lockdowns.

So how much money did you pay this guy, what if any parts did you supply, and what parts was he supposed to supply and what work was he supposed to do exactly?

 

[308pirate]

At this point, after years of reading on here about fucked up custom job after fucked up custom job after blown deadline by years, I seriously doubt I would ever order a custom rifle from anyone.

 

[308pirate]

What would you do?

I would have bought a Winchester Model 70 and called it good.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Sorry to say that without a contract to put down and compare to you're screwed. Odds are you're screwed anyhow. Best you'll get in court is a refund on the rifle and legal fees, if you win. PS: I also have to ask did you accept it as a transfer already? If so, you may have already lost.

 

[nksmfamjp]

I ordered a 300wm on A MacMillan A4, and loaded out on components.

First I would drive there and ask for the document, notes he built the rifle to.....take a picture. If he refuses, ask him what he built and document that on paper with the value of components and labor separated out.

Then bring that home and figure out what it is worth. Now you have a number, might be different than his number. You can work that out.

Every rifle has a street price. Figure that out and discount it based on the screw up.

Rem 700 $500; trigger?;bottom metal?;magazines?
top shelf barrel $350; std chambering $350; muzzle brake $250 installed; sights?
McMillan A4 $600-$1000 depending on options; Pillar bedding $250
finish Cerakote $200-$350
Scope mount $200
Scope??
other assembly work $250

screwed up order you are willing to pay for....-$500

Honestly, I think from this post I see what is wrong with your rifle. You only gave him 2 specs....McMillan A4; 300 WM....what did he have to go off of?

On my last build I wrote 3 pages of specs on every part and how I wanted it done. I didn’t tell the smith how to do his job, just what I wanted, where I wanted it and how it should work. I even spoke to the reamer designer to make sure I didn’t want it throated different. If I don’t get what I want, we’ll go back to the email. He doesn’t even really use email, but somebody printed it out for him! I may be on here with the same story, but I think I’m covered from a communication point of view!

 

[Jefe's Dope]

If you used a CC, file a dispute. This should work out well except for the time. You might be able to convince your CC that you're due a refund although beyond the normal dispute time due to his lack of response and having to wait the length of period due to his scheduling. And file in small claims as well as I see you've already done. I'd bet dollars to donuts he doesn't even show and you'll get default judgement. If he does, you'll have done your homework gathering receipts and emails and witness testimony if allowed.

 

[hafejd30]

It doesn’t matter what you say. It’s what you can prove. Even if you put money down and the receipt shows $2000 paid for a Rem 700 in 300 WM. If there’s not details listed on what you paid for then he’s only obligated to provide you with a Rem 700 in 300 mag.

If you don’t find that receipt then get on the smith to provide what he owes you. Be professional and work something out.

Telling him you’ll file a lawsuit without any real proof he owes you anything will not gain you anything

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Be professional and work something out.

I think he's demonstrated that in spades considering all the emails and phone calls that went unanswered. This is clearly a one way problem. He wants to pay for his completed rifle, it's not completed.

 

[hafejd30]

I think he's demonstrated that in spades considering all the emails and phone calls that went unanswered. This is clearly a one way problem. He wants to pay for his completed rifle, it's not completed.

Right

Thats my recommendation if he can’t prove payment. Before filing a lawsuit.

If he goes to court with proof he paid and didn’t get what he paid for he’s golden

If not, working something out is the best possible scenario