Whats a sporty target size?

[Jackomason]

Well I've found coming to you guys extremely helpful and sometime even encouraging.

I've been gathering dope on a hunting rifle out to 1k. I was shooting this afternoon and took 15 shots at the 12" gong I had placed at 1k and boy can I say the wind kicked my butt! Yup... I only hit the target once! Man I was angry by the end. I was holding 1.5 to 1.9 mils @ 8-10 mph 90° the plate measured about .3-.35 (I guess I could match it but that's just what I measured) I kept hitting on either side but elevation seemed good.

Would you guys shoot a bigger target at that distance? Is my struggle today normal or is that a chipshot for most?

Ps.
I was playing with two ways of bracketing wind and the BC method seems a lot better than simply changing the wind value in the calculator to see what moves the bullet 1 Mil at 1k yards.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Well I've found coming to you guys extremely helpful and sometime even encouraging.

I've been gathering dope on a hunting rifle out to 1k. I was shooting this afternoon and took 15 shots at the 12" gong I had placed at 1k and boy can I say the wind kicked my butt! Yup... I only hit the target once! Man I was angry by the end. I was holding 1.5 to 1.9 mils @ 8-10 mph 90° the plate measured about .3-.35 (I guess I could match it but that's just what I measured) I kept hitting on either side but elevation seemed good.

Would you guys shoot a bigger target at that distance? Is my struggle today normal or is that a chipshot for most?

Ps.
I was playing with two ways of bracketing wind and the BC method seems a lot better than simply changing the wind value in the calculator to see what moves the bullet 1 Mil at 1k yards.

First, shooting a 12" plate set in the middle of the prairie in 10 mph winds isn't a chip shot for anyone. Try this again on a calm day.
2nd, have you ever checked to see how your load holds vertical at that distance? Shooting and spotting for yourself can result in total frustration as you found out. You very well could have been high or low in conjunction with left and right. It does look like you set your plate on a slight rise, which is a good thing, helps. On that day, having a 15 or 18" square plate next to it may have salvaged your trip. Shooting at and hitting smaller plate makes us better shooters, but throwing lead at smaller under the guise of being better, not so much.
I would actually try find out just how good my load and gun are at that distance before beating yourself up.
I have no clue what you are talking about concerning bracketing wind or bc method, any shot needs a certain amount of correction, do not over think this.

 

[Fig]

It’s easy to spot for yourself on a heavy, low-recoil rifle. Its a lot harder (if even possible) on a light, magnum rifle. I think you would benefit from bringing a friend to spot for you. It’s all relative, but to me a 12” target @ 1000 yds in the wind is a small target...very small. I usually shoot a full IPSC out there. Reading wind is everything once you get your fundamentals down.

 

[maverickasu]

Thinking that's a pretty sporty target at 1k...

 

[pmclaine]

What caliber, what projectile, what is the rifle set up.

Winchester 30-30 lever action with soft point lead Id say you did pretty good.

 

[BW64]

First, shooting a 12" plate set in the middle of the prairie in 10 mph winds isn't a chip for anyone. Try this again on a calm day.
2nd, have you ever checked to see how your load holds vertical at that distance? Shooting and spotting for yourself can result in total frustration as you found out. You very well could have been high or low in conjunction with left and right. It does look like you set your plate on a slight rise, which is a good thing, helps. On that day, having a 15 or 18" square plate next to it may have salvaged your trip. Shooting at and hitting smaller plate makes us better shooters, but throwing lead at smaller under the guise of being better, not so much.
I would actually try find out just how good my load and gun are at that distance before beating yourself up.
I have no clue what you are talking about concerning bracketing wind or bc method, any shot needs a certain amount of correction, do not over think this.

Nailed it. For my hunters I always use a paper target (4x4 cardboard with white paper)at 1000 to check dispersion. On a clam day. Then go after the moa plate. Why waste a bunch of ammo & frustration chasing something you're not going to get much of in that wind. Yes wind practice is good but not for setting up your rifle.

BW

 

[MarkLeupold]

I'd say 1.5 MOA targets out in the wind and in real conditions is pretty sporty for most people at any distance. You've got smaller than that.

 

[308pirate]

The 10 ring on the NRA LR (1000 yd) bullseye rifle target is 20" in diameter. This is the one that sling shooters use with both iron sights and optics.

The LR-F (1000 yd F class) target's 10 ring is 10" in diameter. F class shooters (including F-TR) use some seriously sophisticated equipment (compared to a Harris or Atlas bipod) to hold and aim their rifles.

Just bringing that up to give some perspective as to what should be hard and what should be a chip shot at that distance.

OP, now that you've done this, what do you consider to be your max effective range with the rifle in question (details?) under field conditions?

 

[Milo 2.5]

It’s easy to spot for yourself on a heavy, low-recoil rifle. Its a lot harder (if even possible) on a light, magnum rifle. I think you would benefit from bringing a friend to spot for you. It’s all relative, but to me a 12” target @ 1000 yds in the wind is a small target...very small. I usually shoot a full IPSC out there. Reading wind is everything once you get your fundamentals down.

I'm not criticizing what you're doing with the IPSC at 1K, I know it is great to learn on, but continually relying on it at some point becomes a crutch.
We have a 24x36" plate at 500 for load dev, you would not believe the clowns that just have to shoot at it for good measure. Wow, you hit a small car at 500, good job. When there is 1 and 2 moa plate just to the left of it with a huge berm. If you can't spot your shot on 5 ft high by 12' wide berm, by all means lob one at a plate w/o anything behind it, lmao

 

[Fig]

Crutch?... Bitch?

I hear you. Not my problem. I push myself.

I shoot a full sized IPSC with a 2”, blaze target spot so I can see my “misses” on the steel, not because I can’t hit a 1 or 2 MOA target at a grand. I’m aiming at .2MOA target... I don’t get to do it often enough because my home range is only 800. I just like a big target for spotting in practice. If you don’t see where the shot went it’s hard to fix what went wrong. I’m fine with the leetle ones in the match.

I don’t practice a lot of prone, because I shoot prone pretty well. I practice the things I suck at.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Crutch?... Bitch?

I hear you. Not my problem. I push myself.

I shoot a full sized IPSC with a 2”, blaze target spot so I can see my “misses” on the steel, not because I can’t hit a 1 or 2 MOA target at a grand. I’m aiming at .2MOA target... I don’t get to do it often enough because my home range is only 800. I just like a big target for spotting in practice. If you don’t see where the shot went it’s hard to fix what went wrong. I’m fine with the leetle ones in the match.

I don’t practice a lot of prone, because I shoot prone pretty well. I practice the things I suck at.

Oh, ok

 

[Jackomason]

The rifle is a 7mm mag pushing 162 eldx ar 2940fps. I've printed groups out to 570 yards and it's been consistently around 1/2 moa. I have it set up with a PVA shockwave brake and it hardly kicks, that combined with some recoil management hasn't been an issue at any distance. Didn't look like much verticle dispersion but I'd like to get in printed on a target.

What i call the BC method is what Frank and Mike have been suggesting in the podcast. Taking the first number of the ballistic coefficient and using that as your wind constant. So mine would be a .673.
So a 6 or 7mph wind should move the bullet .1 mil per yard mark. The other way is to find out what moves your bullet 1 mil at 1000 yards and work back. My ballistic calculator was suggesting that to be 10mph which didn't line up.

Thanks for the input guys. I'll go get a bigger target!

 

[hlee]

@Jackomason

A target design that I think would be right up your alley...

 

[Jackomason]

Well, quick update. I got two 66% ipsc targets (3/8" ar500) and i bolted them together. This should solve my problem giving me a managble target size for carrying and also let me get good dope. For $90 I figured this is a good solution.

Together they are 24" wide.

 

[Fig]

I think that’ll really help. Your wind calling only gets better when you see where your miss went, and bigger steel targets are great for that.

 

[Mike_Honcho]

Looking at your photo, if you shoot that spot some you really ought to take a mattock and clear a fan behind the target. Doesn’t have to be big, but 100 sqft behind the target and you’d probably spot most of your mikes.

 

[Jackomason]

Mike, I already carry too much haha this big target sure helped and I was able to fine tune my wind calls a little. had first round hits and shot enough to get a good center on my verticle spread. Im pretty happy with how it turned out. I see very good splashes with my origonal set up my it was 1" off this side then 1" off the other. or so it seemed. it was good to print on steel.

I'm going out tomorrow morning and ill try a wind constant of 6mph on a single 66%

 

[ForgeValley]

The range I frequent has full ipsc side by side with a 10*10 square at 1000. I use the ipsc to calibrate my wind call and see how I'm doing that day, then switch to trying for the moa.

 

[Mooncake]

I started shooting 308 at 1K with a 30" round steel target. It wasn't very challenging, even though we all know 308 is worthless past 800yds. So I ordered a 20" steel circle and when it arrived I was like "woh...that's quite a bit smaller". Then I remembered the formula for area of a circle. Oh yeah, duh. But it was a great switch as it is now a good bit more challenging. With 308 and some wind anyway. Hitting it with the 338LM is still too easy. But I give it a fresh coat of paint so I can see the group and it's still SO much better than shooting paper.

The 30" went to 1800yds. Eventually I may put a 20" at 1800 for just over 1 moa and put the 30 out further but I'm not that good yet. The wind is almost always blowing at least a little where I live...or the mirage is out of control.

So, I think a 2MOA target is sporty enough -- paint it so you can see your impacts. Gives you a lot more info than misses of a smaller target.

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I l

I started shooting 308 at 1K with a 30" round steel target. It wasn't very challenging, even though we all know 308 is worthless past 800yds. So I ordered a 20" steel circle and when it arrived I was like "woh...that's quite a bit smaller". Then I remembered the formula for area of a circle. Oh yeah, duh. But it was a great switch as it is now a good bit more challenging. With 308 and some wind anyway. Hitting it with the 338LM is still too easy. But I give it a fresh coat of paint so I can see the group and it's still SO much better than shooting paper.

The 30" went to 1800yds. Eventually I may put a 20" at 1800 for just over 1 moa and put the 30 out further but I'm not that good yet. The wind is almost always blowing at least a little where I live...or the mirage is out of control.

So, I think a 2MOA target is sporty enough -- paint it so you can see your impacts. Gives you a lot more info than misses of a smaller target.

I like the targets that have 'sub' target. Like gongs with holes in the middle for little gongs held behind. I think every shot you don't get feedback on is a wasted shot.

 

[Jackomason]

I started shooting 308 at 1K with a 30" round steel target. It wasn't very challenging, even though we all know 308 is worthless past 800yds. So I ordered a 20" steel circle and when it arrived I was like "woh...that's quite a bit smaller". Then I remembered the formula for area of a circle. Oh yeah, duh. But it was a great switch as it is now a good bit more challenging. With 308 and some wind anyway. Hitting it with the 338LM is still too easy. But I give it a fresh coat of paint so I can see the group and it's still SO much better than shooting paper.

The 30" went to 1800yds. Eventually I may put a 20" at 1800 for just over 1 moa and put the 30 out further but I'm not that good yet. The wind is almost always blowing at least a little where I live...or the mirage is out of control.

So, I think a 2MOA target is sporty enough -- paint it so you can see your impacts. Gives you a lot more info than misses of a smaller target.

I started the exact opposite way, for economical reasons. my first target was a 33% ipsc and I had shot that with a .308 out to 1200 yards while I lived in Canada. Mind you the wind was quite a bit better than here in colorado where there seems to always be a 7-20mph wind. And at that point I thought hitting the target once was great and I definaly never realized how much I shot through out the day.

Getting larger targets has been incredably valuable. Sometimes printing a group tells you a lot more than adjusting for the impact. Can you tell I don't go to a square range much? I dont plan on living off confidence boosters but they have their place. I may shoot larger targets further out but 1k and in I think that vital zone size targets are very practicle for me. Thanks again everyone for their input!

 

[TomH Tx]

I only have safe line of fire to 750 yards at my place. I use 12" "splatter" targets and for me, as a relative newb, that is pretty sporty, but i prefer the challenge s I try to improve my skills. Shooting an RPR in 6.5CM.

 

[Jackomason]

I only have safe line of fire to 750 yards at my place. I use 12" "splatter" targets and for me, as a relative newb, that is pretty sporty, but i prefer the challenge s I try to improve my skills. Shooting an RPR in 6.5CM.

12" Gong is what I've been using for a couple years now and its fairly easy 800 and in, maybe its mental but I feel like it was much much harder further out. We'll see how tomorrow goes. Weather says 12mph winds again.