What's very good accuracy for 22LR

[Boondoggle]

The range I belong to has recently started having monthly NRL matches. I've been looking at some of the usual quality suspects (CZ, Tikka, Bergara, etc) but thought I'd break out the Ruger American rimfire (the model 8334 HB threaded) I bought several years ago and see what it could do first. It always shot well with most ammo but I had some Eley Target and SK standard I had only shot maybe 10 rounds of.

The pic is the Eley Target at 50 yards and I was able to duplicate that group or close five out of five times. Also ran it out on spinners and other steel to 75 and 100 with very good success. Scope is a Nikon rimfire BDC so I'll need to replace that but for a base class rifle is that good enough to have a good go during a match?

I've seen the guys running Vudoo, Kids, Volquartsen, etc do that at a 100 but don't have a good base class reference.

Thanks in advance for your time and info

 

[acourvil]

Looks good to me.

 

[justin amateur]

A comparison?

Will 25 shots at 100 yards, in a tunnel, off a rest, with 4 different rifles and over 50 types of 22lr be good enough?

25 at 100

Yeah, I know, there's an ammo shortage. :rolleyes: How can I waste valuable 22lr on the same old same old. Because I won't have to fire a single shot, it's already been done. All I have to do is some target analysis. It'll take a little bit to get this completed, but not 2-1/2 years like the 50...

www.rimfirecentral.com

 

[kmckinnon]

Is the rifle still in production? Not sure if that and the manufacturers MSRP is still required for Base class. I think there are some 2021 NRL Rule changes might affect what qualifies for Base Class. I know the essence of Base Class was a 22LR where the combined MSRP of the rifle and optic did not exceed $1050. I think that has been increased for 2021.

 

[BullGear]

Shoot just to have fun. Your group looks fine.

 

[nikonNUT]

Not a benchmark but any stretch but I managed this with the CZ 457 today...

Minute of squirrel all day! And I might try a PRS Rimfire production class match this fall...

 

[Merlin O]

After carefully reviewing all 71 of the standard accuracy criteria your group shows a 83/100 final score. This puts your rifle at 94 percentile on the UncleMerlinBS standard testing ladder. Congratulations and good shooting!

 

[usafa77]

I know the essence of Base Class was a 22LR where the combined MSRP of the rifle and optic did not exceed $1050. I think that has been increased for 2021.

Looks like it's up to $1200 for 2021

 

[phlegethon]

0.5 MOA at 50 yards, 0.8 MOA at 100.

 

[brianf]

Dime at 50
Quarter at 100
Fist at 200
Small iPad at 300

 

[300ATT]

Good to great accuracy:

consistent first round hit of a 1/4"-3/8" dot at 50 yards
consistent first round hit of a 1/2"-3/4" dot at 100 yards
consistent first round hit of a 1" - 1.5" spotter at 200 yards

Wind and ammo quality/consistency makes this a real challenge as you move targets out but it *IS* very doable

 

[300ATT]

I will also say that every Bergara B14R that I have shot (all three) will consistently make first round hits on

3/8-1/2" dots at 50
1" dots at 100
2" dots at 200

with SK match ammo. This is good and possibly good enough accuracy for a 22LR.

 

[phlegethon]

Good to great accuracy:

consistent first round hit of a 1/4"-3/8" dot at 50 yards
consistent first round hit of a 1/2"-3/4" dot at 100 yards
consistent first round hit of a 1" - 1.5" spotter at 200 yards

Wind and ammo quality/consistency makes this a real challenge as you move targets out but it *IS* very doable

That is centerfire accuracy. “Consistent first round hit” would suggest that’s within the actual cone of accuracy, so that would be your 20-50 round group size. There is no rimfire that is doing any of that.

 

[DellaDog]

If nicking the edge counts, you're looking at about a minute at 50.
Not out of the realm for a Vudoo consistently.

From a recent Lapua test...

 

[learjet]

If nicking the edge counts, you're looking at about a minute at 50.
Not out of the realm for a Vudoo consistently.

From a recent Lapua test...

View attachment 7642944

Agreed! My vudoo is 1 moa every day. Cz 1.3 moa. Ive shot way better groups, even 6x5s. Any lot ive tried of cx or midas will shoot 1 moa or better w the vudoo. For better results i need better lots. The cz is the pro varmint version bone stock and has been solid at 1.3 moa with the handful of sk std lots ive bought

 

[Outdoors]

Agreed! My vudoo is 1 moa every day. Cz 1.3 moa. Ive shot way better groups, even 6x5s. Any lot ive tried of cx or midas will shoot 1 moa or better w the vudoo. For better results i need better lots. The cz is the pro varmint version bone stock and has
In NRL the 1/4” KYL takes about a 1 MOA rile at 50 yards to hit consistently. The reason is the target is .25 wide and around 6 inch tall. Figure .20 for the projectile to allow a nick So .25 + .20 + .20 = .65“ gets you on the .25 KYL left to right. Up and down, you have a lot of wiggle room.

sorry for the quote - cant get rid of it..

In NRL the 1/4” KYL takes about a 1 MOA rile at 50 yards to hit consistently. The reason is the target is .25 wide and around 6 inch tall. Figure .20 for the projectile to allow a nick So .25 + .20 + .20 = .65“ gets you on the .25 KYL left to right. Up and down, you have a lot of wiggle room.

So good accuracy for NRL would be about just over an MOA holding out to 100 yards. Some matches shoot further than 100 yards but those don‘t count at all in the points race. Of course better accuracy, allows for more shooter error.

 

[DFOOSKING]

Good enough for base. Given it shows no issues while shooting off barricades.

Plenty of Rugers floating around base class.

Get a good scope. Get a few bags or borrow a couple. Buy as much good shooting ammo as possible so your not switching during a match or a month at the least.

 

[Appalachian]

A couple days ago. I consider this “good” accuracy. 1 MOA accuracy would be a horrible day for this rifle.
.5 MOA I would consider excellent accuracy. Second pic is where a fly landed on a USBR target.

 

[justin amateur]

Time to annoy some folks.

I don't consider shooting groups a worthwhile method for exhibiting accuracy.
It's a technique for practicing hold, squeeze, breathing and dialing in a scope.
But not for showing the accuracy of the rifle, ammo, shooter.
If accuracy is the goal, ya' have to hit what ya' aim at.
In most results, those groups so proudly shown,
are not impacting at the same location relative to point of aim.
They wander up/down/left/right and if you were to build an aggregate group
from all the individual groups, y'er not going to like what you see.
If you are serious about determining the accuracy of a rifle or cartridge
ya' need to hit what ya' aim at. Shoot for score, not group size.
Exhibit the ability to actually place the bullet where you were aiming.
Don't be satisfied with a random act of a few uniform trajectories
that don't end up where y'er crosshairs were aiming.
Prove you can hit what you were aiming at.
There's a challenge worth the effort.

You want to see accuracy? Look at the scores and targets
resulting from a skilled shooter working on the USBR Green Monster.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

I've seen the guys running Vudoo, Kids, Volquartsen, etc do that at a 100 but don't have a good base class reference.

If you saw a 100-yard group the size of your 50-yard group in the photo, I'd bet $$$ that it was pure luck. Consistent 1-inch 100-yard groups are achievable with a .22LR... but 1/2- inch 5-shot groups? I've had my Vudoo over 2 years and run Lapua-tested Center-X out of it, and I can count the 100-yard, 1/2-inch, 5-shot groups on one hand.

If your Ruger is shooting those groups consistently, you're good to go in whatever class you want to shoot.

 

[BLJ]

Wife has target model Ruger American that’s a hammer. Run it.

 

[shooterb]

Sub 1” groups at 50 yards for rimfire is the standard I go with. And I shoot 10 rounds groups. I have too much wind where I am. I’ve seen people drive themselves nuts trying to shoot sub moa at 100 like it’s a centerfire rifle.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Good enough to compete.

You do need to find out if they hold up the farther you go. They're taking the NRL22 out a lot more when possible. You'll always have the 100 yard maximum, but match directors are adding as much distance as they can on the bonus stages and Nationals goes beyond 100.

I'd say take it out and find out. You can always upgrade and it's better to see what everyone is running before you go out and buy blindly. You'll be able to touch and fell and likely shoot someone's rifle before you commit.

 

[tomcatfan]

Time to annoy some folks.

I don't consider shooting groups a worthwhile method for exhibiting accuracy.
It's a technique for practicing hold, squeeze, breathing and dialing in a scope.
But not for showing the accuracy of the rifle, ammo, shooter.
If accuracy is the goal, ya' have to hit what ya' aim at.
In most results, those groups so proudly shown,
are not impacting at the same location relative to point of aim.
They wander up/down/left/right and if you were to build an aggregate group
from all the individual groups, y'er not going to like what you see.
If you are serious about determining the accuracy of a rifle or cartridge
ya' need to hit what ya' aim at. Shoot for score, not group size.
Exhibit the ability to actually place the bullet where you were aiming.
Don't be satisfied with a random act of a few uniform trajectories
that don't end up where y'er crosshairs were aiming.
Prove you can hit what you were aiming at.
There's a challenge worth the effort.

You want to see accuracy? Look at the scores and targets
resulting from a skilled shooter working on the USBR Green Monster.

I agree with you. So then what is a good score on the br target? 250 25x is perfect. Is a 230 good? How about 220?

 

[Merlin O]

Get a decent rifle, consistent ammunition, practice and learn to read the wind. Don't worry with how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

 

[sheepdog697]

If you’re 1/2 moa or better and know your holds, you’ll be right there...

 

[justin amateur]

The Green Monster is best edge scoring.
With a good rifle and decent ammo, you need to at least touch the 9 ring with every shot.
At 50 yards, that works out to a 225 minimum score for a good start.
Once you've worked out wind and ammo quality, those 10's and X's show up.
Scores in the 240's are what y'er looking for, just to be competitive.

Try this target...pdf, 8.5x11 paper, download, open, print full size, 100%

10at100black.pdf

drive.google.com

It's only 10 bulls, but you can print as many as you like.
Even shooting groups you can check to see how you'd score.

 

[Hunt_4life]

My heavily modified savage mark ii will consistently shoot .2” 5 shot groups at 50 yards and sub .5” groups at 100. For nrl if you can hit a 1/4” target on a kyl rack 5 times in a row from a prone position your gun is accurate enough.

 

[ma smith]

If accuracy is the goal, ya' have to hit what ya' aim at.

+1000

 

[ma smith]

Lets ask for dot drill proficiency, what is good strike rate out of 20 x 1/2 in dots at 50yd?

 

[justin amateur]

Half inch diameter dots, best edge scoring allows for another 0.2 inch in poi.
That provides for a 0.7 inch spread of impact at 50 yards.
You better show 20 for 20 or you got problems.

 

[RTH1800]

Time to annoy some folks.

I don't consider shooting groups a worthwhile method for exhibiting accuracy.
It's a technique for practicing hold, squeeze, breathing and dialing in a scope.
But not for showing the accuracy of the rifle, ammo, shooter.
If accuracy is the goal, ya' have to hit what ya' aim at.
In most results, those groups so proudly shown,
are not impacting at the same location relative to point of aim.
They wander up/down/left/right and if you were to build an aggregate group
from all the individual groups, y'er not going to like what you see.
If you are serious about determining the accuracy of a rifle or cartridge
ya' need to hit what ya' aim at. Shoot for score, not group size.
Exhibit the ability to actually place the bullet where you were aiming.
Don't be satisfied with a random act of a few uniform trajectories
that don't end up where y'er crosshairs were aiming.
Prove you can hit what you were aiming at.
There's a challenge worth the effort.

You want to see accuracy? Look at the scores and targets
resulting from a skilled shooter working on the USBR Green Monster.

@justinamature
I shot this from a sitting back rest against a tree at 75 yards with DOPE dialed. Two shots aimed at bottom edge 1/4” dot. This is hold I use on squirrel’s eye. Is this accurate? Just checking hunting zero.

 

[ma smith]

Half inch diameter dots, best edge scoring allows for another 0.2 inch in poi.
That provides for a 0.7 inch spread of impact at 50 yards.
You better show 20 for 20 or you got problems.

I'm good for 4/5

 

[justin amateur]

I hear ya' ma.

RT....that there's what ya' call a random act of accuracy.
It's y'er basic wallet group, unless ya' used the phrase "here, hold ma' beer" first.

On the other hand....I lack the off hand skills needed to produce anything like that.
I'd need to be belly down in the dirt using my bipod to get anywhere close.

 

[RTH1800]

It was shot resting over knees with back supported by a large tree. About like a bench rest.

 

[vinniedelpino]

My heavily modified savage mark ii will consistently shoot .2” 5 shot groups at 50 yards and sub .5” groups at 100. For nrl if you can hit a 1/4” target on a kyl rack 5 times in a row from a prone position your gun is accurate enough.

I have two that shoot lights out.

If I were looking for an accurate .22lr right now, I'd buy a bunch of mkii's with the tupperware stock for a couple hundred bucks, put them in an aftermarket stock, see which shoots the best and sell the rest.

I paid $197 for the best shooting .22lr I've ever come across. With CCI minimags, too. Match ammo from SK, wolf and eley didn't shoot nearly as well. I know it sounds absurd, but I swear it's the truth. .22lr rifles can be funny like that I guess.

 

[RTH1800]

No rifle can make mediocre ammo shoot well. If anyone thinks it does it’s on a very small sample.

 

[justin amateur]

Careful there RT!
Y'er gonna start a ruckus with that kinda attitude.
Next thing ya' know, y'er gonna point out that "find the brand y'er rifle likes" is a lie.
Not to mention that "sub-moa all day long" is just the optimism of a keyboard kommando.
Or if y'er really feeling contentious, you could be a bit snide and make a comment like....

Hey, nice 5 shot group. How come ya' didn't show us the other 45?

 

[Gleedus]

Rifle precision is over rated. Especially when your talking positional/ field shooting. There is limits of course.

I'm realistic and track a lot of data. Once your willing to accept reality. (Reality is everyone makes their rifle look like it shoots better then it really does.) You will beable to out shoot others whos rifle shoots "sub moa all day long" well yours is 2 moa. Once you get over how good does my rifle shoot and focus on the real problem. How good I can shoot and read condition is the defining factor on hits.

10 shot groups at 50 I like under 0.7"
10 shot at 100 1-1/2" is good for me.
20 shot at 200 I like to find under 4"
20 shots at 300 12" is ok.
20 shots at 400 20" is pretty good for most.
20 shots at 500 30" is where it tends to go.

 

[Merlin O]

Rifle precision is over rated. Especially when your talking positional/ field shooting. There is limits of course.

I'm realistic and track a lot of data. Once your willing to accept reality. (Reality is everyone makes their rifle look like it shoots better then it really does.) You will beable to out shoot others whos rifle shoots "sub moa all day long" well yours is 2 moa. Once you get over how good does my rifle shoot and focus on the real problem. How good I can shoot and read condition is the defining factor on hits.

10 shot groups at 50 I like under 0.7"
10 shot at 100 1-1/2" is good for me.
20 shot at 200 I like to find under 4"
20 shots at 300 12" is ok.
20 shots at 400 20" is pretty good for most.
20 shots at 500 30" is where it tends to go.

Finally someone who is touch with this reality.

 

[grauhanen]

Rifle precision is one thing. What the ammo can do is another thing altogether.

At the Lapua testing facilities, where only Lapua ammo is tested, it's been found that on average group size increased by a factor of 2.8 when doubling the distance from 50 to 100 meters. That is, a .5" 10 shot group was on average 2.8 times larger at 100 meters at 1.4". Some ammo did better, while others did worse. Finding ammo that does better than average is not predictable and can only be found through testing. The trouble with testing at longer distances is that outdoor conditions can influence results in unexpected ways.

It should be added that the factor by which group size increases beyond 100 may be more than 2.8.

 

[Gleedus]

Rifle precision is one thing. What the ammo can do is another altogether.

At the Lapua testing facilities, where only Lapua ammo is tested, it's been found that on average group size increased by a factor of 2.8 when doubling the distance from 50 to 100 meters. That is, a .5" 10 shot group was on average 2.8 times larger at 100 meters at 1.4". Some ammo did better, while others did worse. Finding ammo that does better than average is not predictable and can only be found through testing. The trouble with testing at longer distances is that outdoor conditions can influence results in unexpected ways.

You say that all of the time. But those of us who shoot long range regularly all agree. You must test at long range to pick the best ammo/ lot for long range.
You can argue this and that reason it doesnt work. But until you do it......

 

[Criver600]

Looks more than good enough to compete. I see lots of guys with decent rifles shooting mediocre ammo and most of them go home and don't come back.
Ten shots at 50 yards. Ten shots at 200 on the 6" plate. I'm lucky enough to have a range at the house and I practice quite a bit. With the rifle that shot these groups I can get 19 out of 20 on the 1/4" KYL at 50 yards. I have gone 20 for 20 a time or two. Good luck

 

[grauhanen]

You say that all of the time. But those of us who shoot long range regularly all agree. You must test at long range to pick the best ammo/ lot for long range.
You can argue this and that reason it doesnt work. But until you do it......

Perhaps difficulties associated with long range testing are overcome or mitigated by the testing itself.

10 shot groups at 50 I like under 0.7"
10 shot at 100 1-1/2" is good for me.
20 shot at 200 I like to find under 4"
20 shots at 300 12" is ok.
20 shots at 400 20" is pretty good for most.
20 shots at 500 30" is where it tends to go.

For the sake of clarity, what is below is only observation, not criticism.

A maximum size of .7" for 10 rounds at 50 and 1.5" at 100 is very near a factor of 2.1.

The doubling of the number of shots for the 200 yard standard makes it difficult to compare it to that of 50 and 100.

Nevertheless, while it's not clear by how much a 20 shot group is larger than a 10 shot group, a 10 shot group is on average about 30% larger than a 5 shot group. If that 30% holds for a 20 shot group compared to a 10 shot group (and I don't know if it does), the maximum standard for a 10 shot group at 200 would be about 3.1", again producing a factor of nearly 2.

It appears that group size can be expected to double when distance is doubled. These standards are presumably outdoors and are better than the average group size increase seen at the indoor Lapua testing facility.

For the 30% figure used above, see http://the-long-family.com/group_size_analysis.htm

 

[justin amateur]

Because I do all my shooting outdoors,
my results show if you halve the the distance, you get a third of the spread.

AT 200 yards, 9 inches of spread
shows 3 inches at 100 yards and 1 inch at 50,
when comparing large numbers of shots.
Not 5 or 10, but 50 to 100 shots sent and compared.

The best 200 yard group of 50 was 3 inches...1.5 moa. No one has posted better.
At 100 yards that'd be a 1 inch group when attempted with the same rifle and conditions.
That would be a 0.3 inch group of 50 at 50 yards.
That is about as good as it gets with the 22lr.

 

[Gleedus]

Perhaps difficulties associated with long range testing are overcome or mitigated by the testing itself.


For the sake of clarity, what is below is only observation, not criticism.

A maximum size of .7" for 10 rounds at 50 and 1.5" at 100 is very near a factor of 2.1.

The doubling of the number of shots for the 200 yard standard makes it difficult to compare it to that of 50 and 100.

Nevertheless, while it's not clear by how much a 20 shot group is larger than a 10 shot group, a 10 shot group is on average about 30% larger than a 5 shot group. If that 30% holds for a 20 shot group compared to a 10 shot group (and I don't know if it does), the maximum standard for a 10 shot group at 200 would be about 3.1", again producing a factor of nearly 2.

It appears that group size can be expected to double when distance is doubled. These standards are presumably outdoors and are better than the average group size increase seen at the indoor Lapua testing facility.

For the 30% figure used above, see http://the-long-family.com/group_size_analysis.htm

You do make some good observation.
I have not compared the difference of 10 vs 20 shot groups at 200 yards.
I use 10 shot groups at 50-100 as I find relatively consistent. At 200 10 shot groups vary and 20 shot groups are more consistent.

The numbers I quoted are from one ammo that has been treating me right well. Some ammo degrade faster then others.
If we look at ammo on average 50 to 100 is 2.8 right. 100-200 3-3.2x 200-400 varys a lot.

 

[Gleedus]

Because I do all my shooting outdoors,
my results show if you halve the the distance, you get a third of the spread.

AT 200 yards, 9 inches of spread
shows 3 inches at 100 yards and 1 inch at 50,
when comparing large numbers of shots.
Not 5 or 10, but 50 to 100 shots sent and compared.

The best 200 yard group of 50 was 3 inches...1.5 moa. No one has posted better.
At 100 yards that'd be a 1 inch group when attempted with the same rifle and conditions.
That would be a 0.3 inch group of 50 at 50 yards.
That is about as good as it gets with the 22lr.

So your increase from 100 to 200 would be 3x which would be the same that I find. And that is with 50 shot groups.
That 3" group at 200.... I wonder if you convinced him to do it again what he would score. I can get under 4 but 3....

 

[DellaDog]

Ran the batch of Center-X just received from the Mesa test center. All 10 shot groups pretty much mirrored their results .26 - .45 MOA. This is the last 10 shot group working the bolt pretty much one right after the other. Vudoo 360.

My first rimfire, and it’s a blast.

 

[BisSilent]

here is one of the better 5 shot groups at 50 yards outta my Rim-X with SK Standard Plus.

 

[justin amateur]

200 yards with rimfire

Finally had a no wind morning so I gave the Lapua Biathlon Xtreme a try. 50 shots at 200 yards with a CZ 455 Varmint, Lilja barrel, Sinclair bipod and bag This box was extremely erratic as the results and chrony numbers show. The Lapua X-Act did a bit better Brand/label/price is no...

www.snipershide.com

That is the best results at 200 yards I've seen.
Not a mere 5 shot wallet group, but all 50 on a single target.
Look at the rifle and ammo needed to get it done.
Add in the ability required to read the wind, it will be difficult to beat.