When is a DPMS LR-308 not .308 ready?

S

spooky2

Private
Minuteman
Feb 6, 2010
10
0
65
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#1
Breaking...Recent convert to this site seeks the glorious advice of the collective mind at SH....

I'm looking at buying the economical DPMS semi-auto in .308. I intend to use the rifle to hunt meaty four-legged critters (as well as defend my family against any criminally insane two-legged varmints stupid enough to cast a shadow within my front door). In my part of the country, commercial .308 Win ammo is ubiquitous. Ergo, the .308 gloriously fits within the scheme.

A gun dealer in my area has a DPMS LR-308T that he wants to sell me. However, when I looked up the specs, the DPMS 308T is chambered for 7.62 NATO.

I recall from some conversations past that those of us who are safety minded should not shoot commercial .308 rounds in a 7.62 chambered rifle. Something to do with potentially hazardous face-ripping explosions (?).

Anyway, I called DPMS and the rep said it's ok to shoot .308 ammo in their LR-308T rifles. He said, "it's still a 308". I call bullsh*t. Really?

Can someone set me or "Tony" straight on this issue?

Much obliged.
 
#6
Re: When is a DPMS LR-308 not .308 ready?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: spooky2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyway, I called DPMS and the rep said it's ok to shoot .308 ammo in their LR-308T rifles. He said, "it's still a 308". I call bullsh*t. Really? </div></div>
If you called DPMS and they told you it was fine why did you doubt them? If they told you wrong they would be liable for a lawsuit and that is bad business. I can tell you that they are pretty knowledgeable about building 308's so try not to take it for granted that you are right and they are wrong. I usually side with the experts.
 
#7
Re: When is a DPMS LR-308 not .308 ready?

telco,
Why can't I shoot nato ammo in a commercial chamber? I've got several chambers cut from various reamers and with 308 ammo and chambers it all boils down to headspace usually. It will either chamber or not. This guy can shoot nato or commercial ammo all day long. No difference.
jh
 
#8
Re: When is a DPMS LR-308 not .308 ready?

If it makes you feel better I shoot 308 in my DPMS LR-308 and even "handloaded" ammuntion which is prohibited as stated in their manual.

Seriously-its a great gun,just go out and shoot it-ALOT.
 
#12
Re: When is a DPMS LR-308 not .308 ready?

You know I was having issues with my DPMS LRT, because I was making reloads using m852 match brass. The rounds would not seat fully even though I used a small base resizing die. I sent the rifle back to DPMS with a piece of the brass and an explaination. they re-reamed the chamber for me and it funtions fine with 308 762, and reloads.
 
#13
Re: When is a DPMS LR-308 not .308 ready?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AXEMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so i cant shoot my mil surp in my NEF single shot? no nigerian, no Venezuelan? </div></div>

Most certainly you can - Internet lore will lead you to believe doing so will put you on the short path to eternal happiness with your 73 virgins, but experience suggests you'll be stuck here on earth for a bit longer.

Sorry to break the news to ya. Hugo Chavez will be happy to hear you are using his product.

hugo_chaves_militar.jpg
 
#14
Re: When is a DPMS LR-308 not .308 ready?

You have it backwards. 7.62mm NATO is higher pressure than commercially loaded .308 Winchester. NATO ammunition (that's loaded in the US) also has thicker brass than the commercial .308 Winchester. So it's okay to shoot .308 Winchester in a NATO chamber but it's not okay to shoot NATO ammunition in a .308 Winchester. You can use NATO cases to reload with though and should get good brass life even with a semi-auto.
 
#15
Re: When is a DPMS LR-308 not .308 ready?

This same issue has come up several times in the last few weeks in one form or another! ArcticFun and others are correct. 308Win from a 7.62 NATO chambered rifle is GTG. NOT necessarily true when it is reversed (i.e. - 7.62 NATO from a 308Win chamber).

Running 7.62 NATO ammo out of a 308Win can cause problems because of differences in brass dimensions/specs, pressure issues, failures to feed/chamber properly/extract, etc. This is particularly true with some foreign military ammo offerings that are known to have pretty significant variations in brass. Yes...people do it all the time and the overwhelming majority don't lose their lives, limbs, eyes, testicles, rifles, etc., but that still doesn't make it a particularly good idea to shoot 7.62 NATO ammo out of a 308Win chambered rifle.
 
#16
Re: When is a DPMS LR-308 not .308 ready?

There are tolerances in each chamber reamer spec and tolerances in each ammo spec.

The bottom line is if the barrel or rifle manufacturer says it's ok, then it's OK.

I have a 7.62 AR10 that rocks Federal Match and a .308WIN M700 that will shoot M118LR.

Believe the manufacturer.
 
#18
Re: When is a DPMS LR-308 not .308 ready?

factory 308 - OK
battle pack surplus - OK
hand loads (correct data) - OK - but may need Match Chamber sizing dies as they are tight ( my standard RCBS die wouldn't take it down, got Forester Match and it's good )
 
#19
Re: When is a DPMS LR-308 not .308 ready?

GTG. Thanks, guys.

Yeah, I should have called it good with the DPMS guy instead of relying on an opinion from an old-timer who looked like he was from the Civil War era.
 
#22
Re: When is a DPMS LR-308 not .308 ready?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticFun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have it backwards. 7.62mm NATO is higher pressure than commercially loaded .308 Winchester. NATO ammunition (that's loaded in the US) also has thicker brass than the commercial .308 Winchester. So it's okay to shoot .308 Winchester in a NATO chamber but it's not okay to shoot NATO ammunition in a .308 Winchester. You can use NATO cases to reload with though and should get good brass life even with a semi-auto. </div></div>
Why don't you do your research then come up with another post explaining how you were wrong.
 
#23
Re: When is a DPMS LR-308 not .308 ready?

Here is a response from Springfield Armory about their rifles;

<span style="color: #6600CC">All of our M1A rifles are chambered in .308 Winchester. This chambering allows both .308 and 7.62X51 NATO rounds to be safely fired through your M1A. We recommend any good quality factory loaded .308 or good quality 7.62X51 NATO ammunition be used in your rifle. Please let me know if you have any other questions. Thank you.

With Best Regards,
Terry Bowers
Springfield Armory
420 W. Main St.
Geneseo, IL 61254
1-800-680-6866
1-800-617-6597
FAX - 309-944-8490
Click to see Homepage </span>
 
#24
Re: When is a DPMS LR-308 not .308 ready?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AXEMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so i cant shoot my mil surp in my NEF single shot? no nigerian, no Venezuelan? </div></div>

Most certainly you can - Internet lore will lead you to believe doing so will put you on the short path to eternal happiness with your 73 virgins, but experience suggests you'll be stuck here on earth for a bit longer.

Sorry to break the news to ya. Hugo Chavez will be happy to hear you are using his product.

hugo_chaves_militar.jpg
</div></div>

how long has ol Hugo been in power down there? this CAVIM is old but it may not predate his rule. hell i started buying 308 ammo when i bought my CETME. now that am selling that, im not sure what to do with all my milsurp stuff. i guess i can shoot it out of my DPMS when its done or sell it to pay for the DPMS upper build, lol

its kinda like the old .223/5.56 deal huh? then they just chambered in the one thats .001 or .01 longer so you can shoot both. im guessing since i rebarreled and only plan on handloads in my savage, that my warranty is gone too.
 
#25
Re: When is a DPMS LR-308 not .308 ready?

Also got a response from Remington about the .308 stamped, model 700.


<span style="color: #CC0000">Thank you for contacting Remington, outside de mentions are going to be pretty close but you run into problems with chamber pressure the 7.62 is going to run at a higher chamber pressure and we advise you to only shoot what is stamped on your barrel from the factory. This keeps accidents from happening.</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MtnMan2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a response from Springfield Armory about their rifles;

<span style="color: #6600CC">All of our M1A rifles are chambered in .308 Winchester. This chambering allows both .308 and 7.62X51 NATO rounds to be safely fired through your M1A. We recommend any good quality factory loaded .308 or good quality 7.62X51 NATO ammunition be used in your rifle. Please let me know if you have any other questions. Thank you.

With Best Regards,
Terry Bowers
Springfield Armory
420 W. Main St.
Geneseo, IL 61254
1-800-680-6866
1-800-617-6597
FAX - 309-944-8490
Click to see Homepage </span> </div></div>



It appears that even different manufacturers give different answers????
confused.gif
 
#26
Re: When is a DPMS LR-308 not .308 ready?

According to SAAMI, the MAX pressure for .308WIN is 62,000psi. MAX pressure I found stated for the 7.62 NATO was 58,000, some sources saying as low as 50,000.

Any issues would likely be from headspace. 7.62 NATO rounds have a longer allowable length before failing headspace when compared to .308. Also military brass is regularly thicker. But most of the time they are made to the same dimensions.

Most of these issues came from firing modern full power .308 cartridges in older actions designed for the 7.62 NATO or a rebarrelled surplus action.

A modern rifle build to withstand the pressures of the .308 (as the manufacterer stated) you are fine. Especially since it is chambered for 7.62 NATO, it will allow both cartiges to headspace with less issue.

That being said, i've fired many rounds of M118 (7.62) through my .308 along with many shooters here that do the same and my ugly mug is still attatched to my skull.
 
#27
Re: When is a DPMS LR-308 not .308 ready?

Interesting, so you shouldn't shoot a .308 Winchester cartridge in a 7.62X51 Nato spec rifle since pressure is generaly more.
 
#29
Re: When is a DPMS LR-308 not .308 ready?

I believe the situation is that the ammo dimensions are the same. The Nato chamber is slightly larger than the 308 chamber to allow operation with dirty ammo in a dirty chamber.

The Nato rounds have a thicker walled case to allow for the fact that they will be shot in the slightly larger Nato chamber. The thicker-walled brass makes for longer life when sized and reloaded for a 308 chamber. Also makes for slightly less case capacity.

When the thinner walled 308 case is fired in the Nato chamber, it has what amounts to slightly excessive headspace, and will have a short life.

I understand that most chambers for civilian use have the standard SAMMI 308 chamber specs, regardless of marking. Checking a specific chamber/bolt combination with the proper headspace Go/No Go gauges will reveal whether one has a 308 or Nato chamber.

As stated above, chamber reamers may be toward the long or short end of the spec. I understand Savage bolt actions can be assembled to the desired headspace.

As also stated above, ammunition may or may not be within spec. It is possible that some surplus ammo was originally manufactured casually, and may have variances. I would expect this is more likely the cheaper the ammunition is and the more remote the manufacturing location.

IMO and FWIW and YMMV.
smile.gif
 
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