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Gunsmithing When the bore absolutely, positively has to be copper free...

BurnOut

BurnOut

DDOJSIOC
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 24, 2013
1,826
802
Dallas
#1
KG-12. Accept no substitute. :p

Seriously, though, KG-12 is far and away the best copper remover I have ever seen. My normal cleaning regimen is to use a good carbon cutter (I've been using KG-1 lately) to get the carbon trash out, alternating wet and dry patches until I get a clean dry patch. If there's a bit of crud that just isn't cooperating, I'll heavily wet a patch with the carbon cutter, run it through the bore a couple of times, and let it sit for a couple of minutes... then run a bronze brush through a couple of times in each direction (pushing/pulling the brush free before reversing directions). Usually, after a brushing like that, it only takes a few more wet/dry patches with the carbon cutter in order to get all but the most stubborn (read: pitted Mosin bores, for instance) bores clean.

Then it's a bore mop soaked with KG-12 back and forth a few times which does an absolutely miraculous job of removing copper. Dry patch, then a patch with JB bore paste on it (spun around in the chamber in an effort to clean any remaining carbon out of it) worked back and forth through the bore a few times. Dry patch out the bore paste/loose trash, followed by a patch soaked with Kroil. Let that sit for 15-20 minutes, and dry patch it one more time to ensure that the bore is *lightly* oiled. The end result is a nice, shiny bore, even before the Kroil.

I recognize that this method is likely a bit harsh for for high end/hand lapped barrels (and *may* damage the crown, with the brush pulled back through the bore; I haven't seen it, but then again I have only intermittent access to a bore scope), but it seems to work quite well for off the shelf production barrels.

What are your barrel cleaning methods?
 
#2
I shoot, shoot more, and then after a little while shoot some more. After shooting repeatedly over a period of time I run a couple patches of kroil down the bore, if it was REALLY bad I'd use foaming gunslick followed by kroil. Then shoot repeatedly again ;)
 
#4
pump it full of wipeout and go drink beer. come back in the am and some form of witchcraft happened and it magically removed all the copper, if there was any along with the carbon and other shit. then i go back out and blast the shit out of it.

i'd pull my fuckin hair out and suck start a glock if my cleaning regimen was anything like yours.
 
#7
Havent used KG-12. May pick up a bottle. Ive been using Butchs Bore Shine. Seems to work decent. But takes longer than I want to deal with.

Also, from my years of shooting, its not really a must to remove all the carbon/lead. Carbon acts as a lubricant for your next shot. If you remove it all, now you have to refoul your barrel. Although, copper removal is a must. Just not carbon. My 2 cents.
 
#9
I don't care for KG stuff. Boretech carbon cleaner for carbon, Wipeout +accelerator for copper. TM works well on copper too. Run some Iosso down in between. After cleaned, run a patch of 50/50 mix of Hoppes and Kroil down. Run a dry patch or two before shooting. Also, swab out your chamber before shooting too...

I've seen a bore cleaner that tops all, but they can't ship anymore due to a certain chemical on the revised hazmat list. Its called Warthog 1134.
 
#10
What kind of fucking barrels are you guys using that require this extensive and aggressive cleaning? If I were you I would look at your barrel maker rather then the magic bore cleansing dust.
 
#12
Killswitch Engage said:
What kind of fucking barrels are you guys using that require this extensive and aggressive cleaning? If I were you I would look at your barrel maker rather then the magic bore cleansing dust.
Click to expand...

No shit.

I put my .308 in the safe after 200rds for a year; the damn bore was copper blue. I just got done cleaning it and all it took was a shot of gunslick foaming jizz and a few patches.
 
#13
STP and I switched over to Outer's Gunslick Foaming Bore Cleaner back when we were partnered up to shoot 1Kyd F Open at Bodines. We had access to a borescope at the time and the results from the Gunslick foam were pretty amazing. That stuff gets it ALL out.

I still use it but my cleaning regimen has backed down from the 'clean after every shooting outing' to something more laid back. These days, I would only strip the bore utterly clean if I was planning to use a bore preservative treatment like the Mil-Comm series of products.

Greg
 
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#14
I'm not a fan of stripping any bore down to the bare metal as you remove the burnish that helps prevent metal to metal contact. A little copper filling in the micro grooves is a good thing, a lot of copper in the bore not so good.

When it comes to copper removal KG-12 stands alone. I've seen many tests done over the years as well as on their website and nothing else comes closes to removing the copper like KG-12. I'm with Greg on this one, I use Gunslick Foaming Bore Cleaner or Wipeout bore foam, let it soak for a couple of hours push a few patches down the tube and I'm done. I just not into stripping my bores clean or spending lots of time cleaning other than waiting for the bore foam to do it's job!

Cheers everyone!
 
#15
Killswitch Engage said:
What kind of fucking barrels are you guys using that require this extensive and aggressive cleaning? If I were you I would look at your barrel maker rather then the magic bore cleansing dust.
Click to expand...
In my case, I'm just using mostly factory barrels (there are a few aftermarket pistol barrels in the mix, though). Also, it bugs the shit out of me to have dirty guns.

I recognize that I'm going to have to get over that once I start getting in to some nicer/lapped barrels, but for my factory barrels it seems to work.
 
#16
BurnOut said:
In my case, I'm just using mostly factory barrels (there are a few aftermarket pistol barrels in the mix, though). Also, it bugs the shit out of me to have dirty guns.

I recognize that I'm going to have to get over that once I start getting in to some nicer/lapped barrels, but for my factory barrels it seems to work.
Click to expand...

i would clean even less on factory barrels. havent seen one yet that didnt perform better fouled then not.
 
#17
Killswitch Engage said:
What kind of fucking barrels are you guys using that require this extensive and aggressive cleaning? If I were you I would look at your barrel maker rather then the magic bore cleansing dust.
Click to expand...

If you're running cast lead bullets, you need the copper completely removed. Every barrel copper fouls to some extent. Shit looks like concertina wire under a bore scope (copper fouling) and with cast bullets you can lead your bore big time if its not removed.
 
#20
Interesting thread. When I shot bench rest, everybody shot expensive barrels and cleaned them down to bare metal after every match -- 5 to 15 shots. At least in bench rest, a clean barrel is more accurate than a dirty one. When groups are genuinely less than 0.2 MOA (some less than 0.1 MOA), the difference can be measured.

Now I am shooting steel (and expensive barrels) and I find that the first few shots from a completely clean .308 barrel go crazy. After about 250 rounds, the accuracy starts to deteriorate - so around 225 to 275 rounds, I clean the barrel -- for me that is every three to four weeks. The first three to five shots are not pretty but then it settles down and puts them on the same point of impact. My heavy gun (300 WM) needs to be cleaned a bit more often but its clean-barrel shots are not as bad as the 308s and it settles down faster.

I also like KG12 and Wipeout and Iosso and that other non-embedding paste - I forget the name.

A friend with a fine weapon cleaned his down to bare metal and it didn't come back the same. Even after more than 100 rounds cold bore is further off than before he cleaned it. It is a little spooky. He carried a similar weapon overseas and he almost never cleaned it.
 
#24
bax said:
Interesting thread. When I shot bench rest, everybody shot expensive barrels and cleaned them down to bare metal after every match -- 5 to 15 shots. At least in bench rest, a clean barrel is more accurate than a dirty one. When groups are genuinely less than 0.2 MOA (some less than 0.1 MOA), the difference can be measured.
Click to expand...

You are correct about benchrest shooters but it is a whole different animal, those guys are looking for consistency from relay to relay and the only way to do this is to go all the way clean. Your top guys will buy multiple barrels of there choice install them on rifle and shoot a number of shots out of them and pick best ones to shoot in competition, others get sold off or whatever. The 6mm guys are only averaging about 1200 or so shots til barrel is gone and the .22 is less than that. my point is they have to have consistency to keep load right but that does not necessarily mean that is where the barrel is most accurate. If it was best between 200 and 225 shots you cant clean it back to where it was at 200th shot and stop....lol. I don't know of any other shooters who buy 5 to 10 or more barrels at a time and test them and keep best 2 or 3....lol. Thats what the top benchrest guys are doing....pricey game to shoot them little tiny holes. So dont assume because they do something it is the way all rifles should be done to be at there peak accuracy. Cleaning is a necessary chore and sucks to do, Ive personally seen more than a few barrels get screwed up by cleaning so I believe it should only be done as necessary to maintain accuracy.
 
#27
burnout- years ago I bought the outers electrolysis cleaner. it WILL remove copper or lead. one can actually remove or leave a fouling residue that your barrel likes at a particular fouling left as many barrels like a little more than others. then I bought the neco fire-lapping kit. don't laugh. I had a custom 25-06 custom that shot great but lord I hated shooting it cuz it was such I prick to clean, till I fire-lapped. use sweets 7.62 after hoppes copper-solv. jb borepaste is great then jb bore bright. you can hand lap too, just takes time manually. lot of options for cleaning
 
#28
The KG is amazing. Take a q-tip of it and rub inside a copper washed muzzle and watch the copper disappear. On the bad side it doesnt change colors on contact with copper. It also smells strongly Of pee, and is bright yellow colored even. Lol

I've found that bore tech eliminator is as good, colors blue like other solvents on copper, and doesnt smell like pee.
 
#29
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#30
Supersubes said:
The KG is amazing. Take a q-tip of it and rub inside a copper washed muzzle and watch the copper disappear. On the bad side it doesnt change colors on contact with copper. It also smells strongly Of pee, and is bright yellow colored even. Lol

I've found that bore tech eliminator is as good, colors blue like other solvents on copper, and doesnt smell like pee.
Click to expand...

I think it smells like pee, too. The fact that it does not indicate the presence of copper is definitely a downside.

I rarely clean my barrels (why bother when they're shooting okay) but when I do I start off by removing carbon with Hoppes 9 and carburetor cleaner, then I push a patch wet with Sweets 7.62 (ammonia based) copper solvent with an aluminum jag (to avoid false positives), wait a few minutes, then push a dry patch. Any telltale blue on the patch and I run patches wet with KG-12, waiting a few minutes between patches, then dry patch and verify with Sweets. I like cleaning my guns, it's gives me the opportunity to closely examine the weapons and possibly head off developing issues.
 
#32
Killswitch Engage said:
pump it full of wipeout and go drink beer. come back in the am and some form of witchcraft happened and it magically removed all the copper, if there was any along with the carbon and other shit. then i go back out and blast the shit out of it.

i'd pull my fuckin hair out and suck start a glock if my cleaning regimen was anything like yours.
Click to expand...

This is my exact cleaning method... fuck all that other work. Absofuckinlutely not.
 
#33
Frank Green said:
That was funny!

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

P.S. I will say be careful of what you use and how you clean it! More damage done from improper cleaning than anything else.
Click to expand...

I took your advice on this topic to heart several years ago Mr Green. I figured if the maker of my favorite barrels says to quit futzing with them, then that's all I needed to justify my pre-existing aversion to scrubbing bores and silly barrel break-in procedures.

On a personal note, it's been great to see you "back" in the discussions. When we made our move home I was hoping that you and a few of the other industry pros would be involved again.

Respect,
Bogey
 
#34
bogeybrown said:
I took your advice on this topic to heart several years ago Mr Green. I figured if the maker of my favorite barrels says to quit futzing with them, then that's all I needed to justify my pre-existing aversion to scrubbing bores and silly barrel break-in procedures.

On a personal note, it's been great to see you "back" in the discussions. When we made our move home I was hoping that you and a few of the other industry pros would be involved again.

Respect,
Bogey
Click to expand...

Bogey, Was never really gone. Some times I'll pop on to see what is going on etc....but I don't check out ever forum/thread. There is only X amount of time in the day.

Also the cleaning thing has been beaten to death and always will be. I have to take my some of my FAQ's and Cleaning stuff and make it to so I can copy and paste it easily but questions still arise.

For all you guys....there is more than one way to skin a cat as the saying goes. Just because the guy next to you is cleaning his rifle differently doesn't mean he is doing it better and could be doing it worse as well. If you have a cleaning procedure that you use and your getting the barrel clean and not wrecking anything then I have nothing to say. If you start wrecking stuff and I can pin it down to the cleaning method then I've got something to say.

Later, Frank
 
#35
KG sent me a bunch of their cleaning products last year and have used all but the KG-12...only reason is because I've been sold on Wipe-Out for copper removal ever since I started shooting seriously.

I'm lazy....shooting some foam down a bunch of bores, letting them sit overnight, patch out and repeat as needed...it doesn't get any easier.
 
#37
Killswitch Engage said:
pump it full of wipeout and go drink beer. come back in the am and some form of witchcraft happened and it magically removed all the copper, if there was any along with the carbon and other shit. then i go back out and blast the shit out of it.

i'd pull my fuckin hair out and suck start a glock if my cleaning regimen was anything like yours.
Click to expand...

Fuck Yes!
 
#38
BurnOut said:
KG-12. Accept no substitute. :p

Seriously, though, KG-12 is far and away the best copper remover I have ever seen. My normal cleaning regimen is to use a good carbon cutter (I've been using KG-1 lately) to get the carbon trash out, alternating wet and dry patches until I get a clean dry patch. If there's a bit of crud that just isn't cooperating, I'll heavily wet a patch with the carbon cutter, run it through the bore a couple of times, and let it sit for a couple of minutes... then run a bronze brush through a couple of times in each direction (pushing/pulling the brush free before reversing directions). Usually, after a brushing like that, it only takes a few more wet/dry patches with the carbon cutter in order to get all but the most stubborn (read: pitted Mosin bores, for instance) bores clean.

Then it's a bore mop soaked with KG-12 back and forth a few times which does an absolutely miraculous job of removing copper. Dry patch, then a patch with JB bore paste on it (spun around in the chamber in an effort to clean any remaining carbon out of it) worked back and forth through the bore a few times. Dry patch out the bore paste/loose trash, followed by a patch soaked with Kroil. Let that sit for 15-20 minutes, and dry patch it one more time to ensure that the bore is *lightly* oiled. The end result is a nice, shiny bore, even before the Kroil.

I recognize that this method is likely a bit harsh for for high end/hand lapped barrels (and *may* damage the crown, with the brush pulled back through the bore; I haven't seen it, but then again I have only intermittent access to a bore scope), but it seems to work quite well for off the shelf production barrels.

What are your barrel cleaning methods?
Click to expand...

You don't have a family/wife or are retired.
 
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