Rifle Scopes Where is Sig on the scope hierarchy?

[TimeWillTell]

The new Tango6 is interesting to me. Like the leveling tech (though may just be something else to fail). Love the Dev-l reticle with 0.2 mil subtensions and the floating half mil dots.

But where is the glass quality and tracking on the hierarchy of scopes? Bushnell level? I assume it's not to the S&B level in glass, but maybe tracks well? Just curious what those that have experience with them all think about where Sig is falling in line with the others.

 

[glock24]

On the outside looking in . . .

 

[Bandit31]

I checked out the 3-18x when the newer gen 2's came out since they had me intrigued and compared it to a 3-18x Gen2 Razor, 4-16x Atacr, and a 3-20xPmii (full size) and to me, I felt like the glass quality was around the gen 2 razor and Atacr. Didn't do any tracking tests but played around with everything and it was nice. I felt the turrets could have been approved a little but overall the package wasn't bad.

 

[hk dave]

On the outside looking in . . .

lol

 

[tag_heuer]

On the outside looking in . . .

Agreed

 

[Mordamer]

I tested tracking on one of the first gen Tango 6's and it was pretty decent. It over tracked slightly. Every 5 mils it gained 0.1 mils. Not sure if the gen 2's are any better, but they have some great features. Glass was very good on the 2 I have looked through.

 

[D. Hargrove]

Watching with interest.

 

[reich10]

This may help. Looks like Sigs optics division is run by former Leupold product guys. They even have the engineer that designed the Mark 8.

I have been interested in the 3-18x44 since it was released.

 

[LastShot300]

On the outside looking in . . .

 

[DannC]

On a similar inquiry, is it true that their Red Dot sights are made for them by Holosun?

 

[mdmp5]

I have the tango 6. Haven’t used it very much but the glass is comparable to a NF. Got it up on a AR right now

 

[Bender]

Great article, all this does is make me proud of capitalism..... its great to have so many choices now in optics. 15 years ago there were maybe 4-5 manufacturers of decent LR optics. Now. It’s a plethora

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Ever wonder why Leupold went to shit shortly before Sig got into scopes? Look at their engineering team.

 

[Nortex]

Ever wonder why Leupold went to shit shortly before Sig got into scopes? Look at their engineering team.

Leupold was good before then?

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Leupold was good before then?

some models, now what brought them to this dance is junk.

 

[TimeWillTell]

So my motivation for this question was I'm in early search to replace a Bushnell HDMR (the original 5 mil turret one). Was strongly leaning Vortex AMG (as I like the reticle better than the razor gen2) but I can across this in the same basic price range and the features and reticle interested me. So anyone that can comment on the Razor line vs the Tango6 is much appreciated. I'm looking for a good glass upgrade from my current scope in particular.

 

[Lowlight]

I like the Sig Line of Scopes and have had really good luck with them.

The Level Plex makes it easy to mount, you turn on the level and you can set everything up perfect from behind the rifle to include Eye relief, it's an easier process overall.

I have not seen any real issues with them and have been recommending them to a lot of folks. I have the Prototype 5-30x that is actually from the first NRA Show and the only reason I did not post a real review is they changed the features for the better and the model I have does not have these same options. (prototype)

They belong right in line with the rest in this price range

 

[longshot2000]

I love this crowd. It is by far the most opinionated, but educated online firearms forum that I participate in. Tough audience. There are certain religious affiliations that simmer beneath the surface. One common theme is the bias against Leupold. I get it. They have been behind the curve in innovation for some time now. I actually have a lot of respect for Leupold, but also agree with the lack of innovation. This spills over into brands like Sig.

I have said before, I am a scope slut. I love and leave 'em the next month, so I have used many and broken many hearts. I am an equal opportunity lover.

Here is my take: First, Vortex is a fucked-up brand. In fact, there is no Vortex brand. It is an amalgamation of every level of quality and every price point imaginable. I have no clue how the maker of the Sparc and the Strike Eagle can also make the PST Gen2 and Razor scopes, let alone the scopes in-between. The Razor HD and AMG are great scopes, inspite of, and not because of, the Vortex brand name. The Razor is not only a great optic, but also if solid and robust in external construction.

The Sig Tango, I have found to be a decent scope. The Tango4 is made in the Philippines, and I found it to be a good value and decent glass. In the Vortex line, I would compare it to the PST Gen1. I had some troubles with the Tango4, in terms of movement of the zoom lens. The Tango6 was a mark better, and I found it to be a very good optic, and has some neat features, like the internal cant indicator. The turrets are not as solid as the Razor, from a standpoint of throwing the scope down the driveway or hitting in the woods. If you are at the range, I have found the Tango6 to be very good. Is it as good as the Razor? Pretty close. In my opinion (just that), I would put it more on a par with the PST Gen2 -- maybe a little better -- but not as all around good as the Razor HD or AMG.

I think both scopes are an upgrade from your Bushnell.

Just some observations and opinions based upon what brands you asked about. I might be inclined to add a quick look at Steiner T5Xi or NightForce.

 

[TimeWillTell]

I love this crowd. It is by far the most opinionated, but educated online firearms forum that I participate in. Tough audience. There are certain religious affiliations that simmer beneath the surface. One common theme is the bias against Leupold. I get it. They have been behind the curve in innovation for some time now. I actually have a lot of respect for Leupold, but also agree with the lack of innovation. This spills over into brands like Sig.

I have said before, I am a scope slut. I love and leave 'em the next month, so I have used many and broken many hearts. I am an equal opportunity lover.

Here is my take: First, Vortex is a fucked-up brand. In fact, there is no Vortex brand. It is an amalgamation of every level of quality and every price point imaginable. I have no clue how the maker of the Sparc and the Strike Eagle can also make the PST Gen2 and Razor scopes, let alone the scopes in-between. The Razor HD and AMG are great scopes, inspite of, and not because of, the Vortex brand name. The Razor is not only a great optic, but also if solid and robust in external construction.

The Sig Tango, I have found to be a decent scope. The Tango4 is made in the Philippines, and I found it to be a good value and decent glass. In the Vortex line, I would compare it to the PST Gen1. I had some troubles with the Tango4, in terms of movement of the zoom lens. The Tango6 was a mark better, and I found it to be a very good optic, and has some neat features, like the internal cant indicator. The turrets are not as solid as the Razor, from a standpoint of throwing the scope down the driveway or hitting in the woods. If you are at the range, I have found the Tango6 to be very good. Is it as good as the Razor? Pretty close. In my opinion (just that), I would put it more on a par with the PST Gen2 -- maybe a little better -- but not as all around good as the Razor HD or AMG.

I think both scopes are an upgrade from your Bushnell.

Just some observations and opinions based upon what brands you asked about. I might be inclined to add a quick look at Steiner T5Xi or NightForce.

Thanks LL and Longshot.

So in regards to Steiner and NF: I currently have the H59 and while I like some things about it, I don't like others. Love the tree style and the 0.2 mil subtensions. Hate the main horizontal reticle with all the extra stuff. I find the AMG reticle and the Dev-L and the new reticle From ZCO to get great compromises with useable main crosshair for when I want to dial elevation and hold wind, but usable trees when I want to hold both. If I didn't want a tree or if I wanted another H59 I'd jump on either a NF or a Steiner (and likely will in the future as my funds increase).

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

I love this crowd. It is by far the most opinionated,

Well I based my opinion on first hand experience. Use to be a Leupold fan boy no more. Had two 4.5x14x50 so called Mk 4's both went back 3 times each an on the third time I sold them. Bought 2, 3.5x10x40 mk4's M3 never an issue to-date an I use them like rented mules. Went back to Leupold for a 6.5x20x50 so called Mk 4, it went back 3 times as well, but this time they said they shot it on a .308 an produced a target indicating such. Told them in was on a 300wm w/a break when it arrive home for the third time, I mounted it an 4 of us went to the range with it. The first 4 groups were holes like they should be on this stick. Back to me for the 5th, 3 in the same hole 4th was 2.5moa away an the 5th was 1.75 moa from the first 3, they were all laughing until they shot it ,then I got to laugh. Pulled that POS off the stick, installed one of the 3.5x10 m3's 10 groups of 5 into ragged holes by 4 different guys, Where the problem is/was again ain't that hard to grip. All in all I think I have lost about 4-5 grand dicking with those scopes in ammo, freight, travel an match fees that were a waste using them.
Bought a 2.5x8x36 VX3i before I handled one (while the 20X was back for the 3rd time) thinking it would be the same quality as the Veri X3's I own, big mistake. To say it looks like it was made in China would be an insult to china. No more leupolds ever again.

 

[JR869]

Agreed[/QUO

On the outside looking in . . .

Funny but true. I've been a Sig Optics fan since they came out. I gave them a try and have been impressed with the quality and the glass clarity. I have two Tango 6's, a Gen1 2-12 and the Gen2 3-18 with the Dev-L. and a I have a Romeo 4M and love it. As for the Romeo, Sig publicly came out and said that Holosun do NOT make their Romeo Optics. Take it for what it's worth.

I'm baffled by Sig Sauer. They start up their Electro-Optic Group poaching experts from Leupold and they spend tons of money getting it started and yet they spend nothing on advertising and their website is HORRENDOUS as nothing is current and they don't list all the specs they should. The 3-18 part number on the box is different than what on their website, go figure. And better yet, the manual that came with the Gen2 3-18 is the manual from the Gen1 with NO reference to the Dev-L reticle. Good luck finding the reticle breakdown on their website. Their optics are very good and they would probably sell many more if they advertised and had more reviews out there.

I also have a Athlon Cronus BTR and the Sig Tango 6. The glass is comparable although I might give a very slight edge to the Cronus. But for what you can currently get a used Tango 6 for, they are a really good buy.

 

[Long Range 338]

I've got a couple of the Tango 6 5-30's and think they are great. I've also got a Tango 4 6-24 but I've not put enough time on it to give a decent opinion. The Sig scopes have a lot of features and work well. The glass is quite good - I compared it side by side with a Razor 2 and it was really too close to call as far as glass. They are not a S&B or TT but I like the turrets, the reticles, and the levelplex is pretty sweet. And they seem to be selling here on the Hide for WELL below MSRP.

 

[anginaprinzmetal]

I'll give it a try, this is for tactical scopes. This is just my humble opinion

Top tier would be Hensoldt and Premier/TangentTheta
Second tier: S&B, Kahles, USO, Nightforce ATACR/BEAST, Steiner Military line
Third tier: RazorG2, Leupold M6, Nighforce NSX
Fourth tier: Bushnell Elite, Steiner T line, Nightofrce SVH, Burris XTRII
Fifth tier: Vortex PST, Sig Tango4

In my opinion Sig Tango6 and Eotech would be in between 3rd and fourth tiers. I think they're aiming for third tier but hadn't prove they are there yet.

ZC Optics would probably aim to be in the 2nd tier but again no one has seen one in the wild yet so who knows

 

[JR869]

I'll give it a try, this is for tactical scopes. This is just my humble opinion

Top tier would be Hensoldt and Premier/TangentTheta
Second tier: S&B, Kahles, USO, Nightforce ATACR/BEAST, Steiner Military line
Third tier: RazorG2, Leupold M6, Nighforce NSX
Fourth tier: Bushnell Elite, Steiner T line, Nightofrce SVH, Burris XTRII
Fifth tier: Vortex PST, Sig Tango4

In my opinion Sig Tango6 and Eotech would be in between 3rd and fourth tiers. I think they're aiming for third tier but hadn't prove they are there yet.

ZC Optics would probably aim to be in the 2nd tier but again no one has seen one in the wild yet so who knows

In your scenario, the Tango 6 would fall in the 3rd tier. It's better than the Luepold Mk 6 and better than the NF NSX.
I haven't looked through an Eotech Vudu but I know it's Japanese glass and made by LOW so I'm sure it's good but not sure of their specs on the glass.

I'm sure you're going to get an ear full as glass is subjective. But IMO there is a fairly clear line of what's top tier and second tier (are many scopes and people will have their options based on their experience), Third tier (are many scopes and people will have their options based on their experience) and and then all the rest.

 

[Bender]

Vortex PST about 29th tier.

SWFA, Weaver 3rd to 4th

 

[mdmp5]

Just used my tango 6 today. Glass is great. Knobs are nice too and I believe it tracks well based on my shots.

 

[Glassaholic]

If I remember correctly I believe ILya reported last year that the Tango 6 models were made by LOW, same group that makes the Razor Gen II's. They sound like they are good scopes and have good specs if but a little on the heavy side, but for Gen II owners this would not be an issue

 

[snarkscarbine]

Does anyone have a decent picture of the DEV-L mil reticle? The only one I can find is the one from Sig’s website and it looks like they ran it through the fax machine a few times before they put it up.

 

[mdmp5]

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/finally-sig-sauer-tango6-dev-l-reticle-diagrams.6544472/

 

[Dthomas3523]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/01/foghorn/hands-sig-sauers-new-tango6-5-30x56-scope/

MOA version, but not a bad picture in the article

 

[snarkscarbine]

That’s great. Thanks!

 

[BigJimFish]

Sig's Tango 6, Vortex gen2 Razor, and Nightforce ATACR all use Light Optics as the OEM and all are using Light Optics highest end line. These scopes also all have in common that each brand does a more significant amount of the design work than most brands do. So, they are in a way the same but also in a way different. Beyond that I can't really tell you as I haven't tested a Tango 6. My expectation is that you will find it most similar to those optics I mentioned. I would also expect for you to find the optics better than anything Bushnell puts out (they sometimes use the same OEM but don't seem to be able to get as much out of it) and less than most S&B.

Tracking is trickier because that really comes down to what makes or does not make QC spec for a particular scope from a particular brand as well as where the particular scope you buy happens to fall in that range. Sometimes, it even comes down to just how diligent the QC inspector was that day as I have had scopes from brands that are actually outside of their acceptable range land on my doorstep. I'll bet you that caused a stir around the office when they got their advance copy of the review. I have also had $1,200 scopes that tracked perfect and $3,000 ones that were 5% off. I have not seen a sample size sufficient for any brand to make some sort of generalization for how their scopes track.

Hope that helps.

 

[bigjake83]

I'll give it a try, this is for tactical scopes. This is just my humble opinion

Top tier would be Hensoldt and Premier/TangentTheta
Second tier: S&B, Kahles, USO, Nightforce ATACR/BEAST, Steiner Military line
Third tier: RazorG2, Leupold M6, Nighforce NSX
Fourth tier: Bushnell Elite, Steiner T line, Nightofrce SVH, Burris XTRII
Fifth tier: Vortex PST, Sig Tango4

In my opinion Sig Tango6 and Eotech would be in between 3rd and fourth tiers. I think they're aiming for third tier but hadn't prove they are there yet.

ZC Optics would probably aim to be in the 2nd tier but again no one has seen one in the wild yet so who knows

Honestly unless you have all these scopes on hand, our can actually make an informative decision your post is nothing but an opinion, and fruitless to say the least.

As stated above from Big Jim fish who hit nail on the head, and has more time behind glass then probably most of us combined.

Everybody use the Vortex Gen 2 RZ as the Gold Standard and for good reason keep that in mind...

 

[anginaprinzmetal]

^ please read my second sentence, and I re-quote it... "This is just my humble opinion"...