Are there any ammunition depots where you can buy different lot # of Lapua and SK ammo for testing that sells 50 round boxes for each lot # instead of the 500 round box?
Where to buy different lot # for Lapua and SK ammo
- Thread starter TackDriver2
- Start date
While the concept of lot testing is definitely valid, the limited availability of match grade 22 ammo the last few years makes it near impossible. you order some and roll the dice.
I have used SK pistol match special ( out of stock everywhere for the last 18 months ) biathlon ( down to my last brick and also OOS) and will be switching gears to SK long range soon, as I found a source for it and got the last 3 bricks before it also went OOS.
I have used SK pistol match special ( out of stock everywhere for the last 18 months ) biathlon ( down to my last brick and also OOS) and will be switching gears to SK long range soon, as I found a source for it and got the last 3 bricks before it also went OOS.
Fortunately I have been able to buy in times of plenty, but am waiting on a case of xact. Thought it may be a while. Creedmore has some, bit more expensive but it is out there, just not for lot testing.
Very few retailers will sell a single box when it is flying off of the shelves by the brick (500 rounds) or case (5000 rounds). Even if they did, by the time it shipped, arrived at your door, you tested and got back to them with a preference, it would be long gone.
I am going to go slightly off topic.
Contrary to what seems to be the general consensus, lot testing is overrated for most rifle and shooter combinations. It's a waste of time and money. The reasons for this are as follows.
Many seem to think they will find some cheap ammo in a magic lot that will make their average or less rifle shoot like a match rifle.
This is not at all true. No rifle/ammo combination will outshoot the weak link. Ammo is not always the weak link. Any of the usual suspects could be the cause.
Lot testing helps in limited circumstances for a rifle that is picky about ammunition to shoot slightly smaller groups. The normally small differences must be tested over a LOT of groups in many various conditions. More than the five you get out of one box of ammo. The differences are often so small that only a match shooter could tell or it would matter.
Shooting a couple of 5 shot groups from a few different boxes of ammo and saying one is statistically better than another is not possible.
I think the common idea is that some inexpensive ammo is going to shoot "above its pay grade" is a common misconception. It might outshoot some great ammo for one or possibly two groups at best and normally will not even do that.
I will also say that truly accurate rifles shoot most good ammo well.
Long to short is you will need at least a 500 round quantity to get any meaningful data. "Data" arrived at with a box of ammo only shows a few random acts,.
Contrary to what seems to be the general consensus, lot testing is overrated for most rifle and shooter combinations. It's a waste of time and money. The reasons for this are as follows.
Many seem to think they will find some cheap ammo in a magic lot that will make their average or less rifle shoot like a match rifle.
This is not at all true. No rifle/ammo combination will outshoot the weak link. Ammo is not always the weak link. Any of the usual suspects could be the cause.
Lot testing helps in limited circumstances for a rifle that is picky about ammunition to shoot slightly smaller groups. The normally small differences must be tested over a LOT of groups in many various conditions. More than the five you get out of one box of ammo. The differences are often so small that only a match shooter could tell or it would matter.
Shooting a couple of 5 shot groups from a few different boxes of ammo and saying one is statistically better than another is not possible.
I think the common idea is that some inexpensive ammo is going to shoot "above its pay grade" is a common misconception. It might outshoot some great ammo for one or possibly two groups at best and normally will not even do that.
I will also say that truly accurate rifles shoot most good ammo well.
Long to short is you will need at least a 500 round quantity to get any meaningful data. "Data" arrived at with a box of ammo only shows a few random acts,.
For the most part I agree. Most who lot test are not looking for the cheap solution they are looking for the lot that will give them one more point on a target. They often go in requesting lots of a certain grade ammo (best of midas, or Xact) for their Match gun. Most (probably all) of the smallbore shooters that will compete in Paris will have lot tested their rifles at either Eley or Lapua. For others it is not as critical, I just pick a case or two of my chosen Lapua ammo (went from CenterX to Midas+ and am now waiting on a case of Xact). the casual lot testers who expect a lot of cheap ammo to shoot above it's grade are as you suggested wasting their time, but hey shooting is fun, so why not.
Whidden Gunworks is lot testing now and selling SK and other match 22 by lot numbers
By and large, this is very true, but I’ll tell you that sometimes there are noticeable differences from one lot to another.
Part of your premise is that people are buying subpar ammo and expecting to find a good lot in their sub par rifles. It’s a flawed premise and results in a skewed conclusion.
Part of your premise is that people are buying subpar ammo and expecting to find a good lot in their sub par rifles. It’s a flawed premise and results in a skewed conclusion.
I second Whidden Gunworks as well. Recently bought 3 bricks of the same lot number that I got from a different vendor.
If you wanted to go with Eley there's a few that offer by lot on their sites. Lapua it seems sells out faster than it stays in stock the past few years.
That said, why not just send it to one of the Lapua testing centers? They'll only test lots they have some stock of so you could look the sheets over and then just pick the one you like the best.
That said, why not just send it to one of the Lapua testing centers? They'll only test lots they have some stock of so you could look the sheets over and then just pick the one you like the best.
@RTH1800, I agree with much of your post above, but I do have to take exception to the statement above. I believe even one 5-shot group can be statistically significant.
Before I retired, my job required that I use create and use statistical tools. Your statement got me curious. I was used to working with a minimum of around 1,800 samples. Usually it was more like 4,500 to 10,000 samples. Sometimes it was 50,000 plus. So, would 5 or 10 shots be adequate? I just had to look. So, I dug out one my old tools and plugged in the numbers. Yes, even groups of only 5 shots could demonstrate a statistically significant difference in lots - enough of a difference to make an informed purchase choice.
Since I ran across several posts discussing shot counts for lot testing, I created a new post to show my conclusions. Please take a look. I'd appreciate your thoughts - especially on the limitations of such an analysis.
Andrew
The post: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/lot-testing-what-is-statistically-significant.7231560/
