Are there any ammunition depots where you can buy different lot # of Lapua and SK ammo for testing that sells 50 round boxes for each lot # instead of the 500 round box?
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Join the contest SubscribeFor the most part I agree. Most who lot test are not looking for the cheap solution they are looking for the lot that will give them one more point on a target. They often go in requesting lots of a certain grade ammo (best of midas, or Xact) for their Match gun. Most (probably all) of the smallbore shooters that will compete in Paris will have lot tested their rifles at either Eley or Lapua. For others it is not as critical, I just pick a case or two of my chosen Lapua ammo (went from CenterX to Midas+ and am now waiting on a case of Xact). the casual lot testers who expect a lot of cheap ammo to shoot above it's grade are as you suggested wasting their time, but hey shooting is fun, so why not.I am going to go slightly off topic.
Contrary to what seems to be the general consensus, lot testing is overrated for most rifle and shooter combinations. It's a waste of time and money. The reasons for this are as follows.
Many seem to think they will find some cheap ammo in a magic lot that will make their average or less rifle shoot like a match rifle.
This is not at all true. No rifle/ammo combination will outshoot the weak link. Ammo is not always the weak link. Any of the usual suspects could be the cause.
Lot testing helps in limited circumstances for a rifle that is picky about ammunition to shoot slightly smaller groups. The normally small differences must be tested over a LOT of groups in many various conditions. More than the five you get out of one box of ammo. The differences are often so small that only a match shooter could tell or it would matter.
Shooting a couple of 5 shot groups from a few different boxes of ammo and saying one is statistically better than another is not possible.
I think the common idea is that some inexpensive ammo is going to shoot "above its pay grade" is a common misconception. It might outshoot some great ammo for one or possibly two groups at best and normally will not even do that.
I will also say that truly accurate rifles shoot most good ammo well.
Long to short is you will need at least a 500 round quantity to get any meaningful data. "Data" arrived at with a box of ammo only shows a few random acts,.
I know what I have seen dozens of times. You have other experiences apparently.By and large, this is very true, but I’ll tell you that sometimes there are noticeable differences from one lot to another.
Part of your premise is that people are buying subpar ammo and expecting to find a good lot in their sub par rifles. It’s a flawed premise and results in a skewed conclusion.
I second Whidden Gunworks as well. Recently bought 3 bricks of the same lot number that I got from a different vendor.Whidden Gunworks is lot testing now and selling SK and other match 22 by lot numbers
@RTH1800, I agree with much of your post above, but I do have to take exception to the statement above. I believe even one 5-shot group can be statistically significant.Shooting a couple of 5 shot groups from a few different boxes of ammo and saying one is statistically better than another is not possible.
Wow, I’ll defer to you. I’m a complete amateur .@RTH1800, I agree with much of your post above, but I do have to take exception to the statement above. I believe even one 5-shot group can be statistically significant.
Before I retired, my job required that I use create and use statistical tools. Your statement got me curious. I was used to working with a minimum of around 1,800 samples. Usually it was more like 4,500 to 10,000 samples. Sometimes it was 50,000 plus. So, would 5 or 10 shots be adequate? I just had to look. So, I dug out one my old tools and plugged in the numbers. Yes, even groups of only 5 shots could demonstrate a statistically significant difference in lots - enough of a difference to make an informed purchase choice.
Since I ran across several posts discussing shot counts for lot testing, I created a new post to show my conclusions. Please take a look. I'd appreciate your thoughts - especially on the limitations of such an analysis.
Andrew
The post: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/lot-testing-what-is-statistically-significant.7231560/