Which 700 to buy?

T

thebda

Private
Minuteman
Apr 23, 2012
33
0
36
Jacksonville, FL
#1
I'm looking at buying my first bolt gun for long range shooting. Near me there's a 1000 yard rang that I'd like to at least make an attempt at in the near future. I'm looking at a few different models of 700 and not sure if the difference in barrel lengths will be a deciding factor in me getting to 1000 or not. Some really quick (and probably inaccurate) comparisons using online ballistic programs show only a 75-100 yard increase in distance at which the bullet becomes sonic (using factory spec's then minus 200 fps for the shorter barrel). In the few loads I checked this seemed to happen in the 900-1000 yard range so I'd be transonic anyways. A few other things I'm considering are 1:10 vs 1:12 twist (for heavier, high bc bullets) and if getting a stainless model is worth the extra cost. I'm using Buds gun shop prices because he had all the models listed and the prices seem to be about the best on the internet that I've found so far. Here's the models

700 SPS: 24" Barrel, 1:10 twist (doesn't explicitly say heavy barrel, is it?) $555
700 SPS Stainless: Same specs, $632
700 SPS Varmint: 26" Barrel, 1:12 twist $577
700 Tactical: 20" Barrel, 1:12 twist $606
700 SPS Tactical AAC: 20" Barrel (Threaded), 1:10 twist $645

It sounds like the Hogue stock is slightly better on the models that have it but either way I'll need a new stock on the gun. Thoughts on which to get?
 
#8
Re: Which 700 to buy?

Some advice I will give you I didn't get when I 1st went to purchase my 1st stick.

Take your time! Exaust your researches before you make a decision.

Save your money and get what you want out of your rifle. I would start out like you are and if you get into this sport science you can always upgrade later on. If you decide you really like shooting the 1000 yds. "most become addict's" you can put some $ aside for a really nice custom stick or purchase from a high quality builder. There are to many to choose from.

And just what the other's here said; 5R!

Good luck to you!
Much respect,
-Sv
 
#10
Re: Which 700 to buy?

The 5r is a little out of my price range for what your getting. I realize it's a slightly different twist rate and the stock is way nicer but if I got with a cheaper one i can pick almost any stock and still end up ahead money wise or for a little more get a chassis system.
 
#11
Re: Which 700 to buy?

5R, the barrel is the heart and soul brother. Get stainless if you can't get 5R though. My Riflesmith swears their stainless barrels are much better?

Better stock, better barel, threaded for brake. Even if you don't want a can, an AAC brake will make that gun much smoother to shoot. Mine cleans up real fast too.

That 5R barrel will shoot more variety ammo better than a standard barrel. All you need after that is a $125 Timney. And your golden. Well glass.....
 
#12
Re: Which 700 to buy?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thebda</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 5r is a little out of my price range for what your getting. I realize it's a slightly different twist rate and the stock is way nicer but if I got with a cheaper one i can pick almost any stock and still end up ahead money wise or for a little more get a chassis system. </div></div>

Man... Listen... Problably the most important part of your rifle "as far as accuracy" is your barrel. The 5r's are not that expensive at all. Stocks/chassis can be expensive or cheap depending on what you want as far as customizing etc. There are 100's of people on the Hide here that know tons more than I do, but I think they would agree to research some more. This is what I would do in pecking order if I were you since you want to seave some $.

-Find a used stock inletted for a R700 5R .308 barrel. You can find them for dirt cheap used and you can have it refinished and just like as if it was brand new for way less than a brand new one.

-Pick out a barrel you want eg:

<span style="color: #FF6666">Rock Creek Barrels</span>
http://www.rockcreekbarrels.com/ one of the most popular barrel companies out there right now IMO. Rock develops some real world class barrels.


<span style="color: #FF6666">Bartlein Barrels</span>
Precision single-point, cut-rifled barrels, from .20 to .338 caliber, plus .50 Cal, starting at $245. Wide variety of contours, very exact twist rates.

Benchmark Barrels
Benchmark built its reputation with record-setting rimfire barrels, and now they are producing excellent centerfire barrels as well. Contact Ron Sinema or Barry Graber at (360) 652-2594 or email benchmarkbarrels[at]yahoo.com. No website yet. Location: Benchmark Barrels, 1105 Pioneer Highway East, Arlington, WA 98223.

Border Barrels
Traditional Obermeyer-style "5R" cut-rifled barrels made in Scotland. Long barrel life, high quality. Distributed by O.K. Weber in the USA.

<span style="color: #FF6666">Brux Barrels </span>
Brux produces very high-quality cut-rifled barrels. Recent records have been set with Brux 6mm and 6.5mm barrels, and the 7mms have performed well in F-Class applications. Brux is located in Lodi, Wisconsin. Call (608) 592-3324.

<span style="color: #FF6666">Broughton Barrels</span>
Conventional and canted land (5C) pull-buttoned barrels. Stress-relieved and meticulously hand-lapped, Broughton barrels clean easily and the 5C offers enhanced velocities. Broughton Canted Land Barrels.

<span style="color: #FF6666">Hart Barrels</span>
High grade push-button, hand-lapped barrels. Long, effective barrel life. Along with Shilen, Hart barrels have dominated 100/200yd BR for decades. Great choice for 6mm BR varmint guns too.

Kostyshyn Precision Barrels
Excellent hand-lapped buttoned barrels that have been winning matches, particularly in 30BR IBS competition.

<span style="color: #FF6666">Krieger Barrels</span>
Cut-rifled barrels with very long barrel life. Top smiths say Krieger barrels are almost always straight and true. Fewer duds than some other brands. Hard to go wrong with a Krieger.

Lawton Rifle Barrels
Barney Lawton's barrels have been quite successful in long-range BR matches. Lawton Machine, LLC offers both cut-rifled and pull-buttoned barrels in 6mm through .408 bore sizes.

<span style="color: #FF6666">Lilja Precision Rifle Barrels</span>
Hand-lapped button rifled barrels. Lilja's 3-groove 6BR barrels are very accurate and clean fast. Lilja's rim fire barrels are among the very best.

Pac-Nor Barreling
Barrel-maker and chamberer. Conventional barrels plus pre-fit, three-groove, and polygonal rifling.

<span style="color: #FF6666">Schneider Rifle Barrels</span>
1403 Red Baron
Payson, AZ 85541
Phone: (928) 474-2852
Hand-lapped, pull-buttoned barrels with superb accuracy. Conventional and 5-land Polygon (P5) rifling options. Good prices ($254/blank). David Tubb uses Gary Schneider's barrels exclusively. Enough said.

<span style="color: #FF6666">Shilen Barrels</span>
Big-name Texas barrel-maker still produces the lion's share of winning short-range BR barrels. They now offer ratchet (canted land) as well as conventional push-button rifling in 3, 4, 5 and 6 grooves.

Spencer Rifle Barrels
Accurate, button-rifled barrels available completely chambered in a wide variety of calibers. Tight control of tolerances. Considerable success in big-bore 1000yd guns and accuracy-guaranteed Varmint guns. Good value and excellent customer service.

Lothar Walther Precision Tools, (770) 889-9998
Buttoned barrels from proprietary super high-grade German steel. Polygonal rifling available in .223 and .30 calibers. Good value on prechambered and threaded barrels. Finished barrels for the M 98, Savage and CZ rifles. 54 standard contours and 1500 other contours are available.

Etc. etc. etc.

Good luck,
-Sv
 
#14
Re: Which 700 to buy?

The H-S is a Kevlar, carbon fiber, and fiberglass composite. It has aluminum bedding blocks, and does free-float the barrel.

A huge step up from the Hogue, whose material more closely resembles a municipal garbage can.

 
#15
Re: Which 700 to buy?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbsinh20</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The H-S is a Kevlar, carbon fiber, and fiberglass composite. It has aluminum bedding blocks, and does free-float the barrel.

A huge step up from the Hogue, whose material more closely resembles a municipal garbage can.</div></div>

Well said haha.

Another piece of advice, through and through.

By the looks of it, someone has a lot of research to do before they should consider buying.

Don't jump the gun. Read about stocks, than read about barrels, than read about action's, than read about triggers, than read about scope ring's, scope basis and scope's. Point is read before you waste your money. Take the advice given and run with it.

You will read this a 100 time's in this forum. Bye once cry once. If you can't afford what you want than save up for it. That is what I do. You just have to be patient. You willn't be a good shooter anyways if you are not patient.

-Sv
 
#16
Re: Which 700 to buy?

My main concern is not spending a ton of dough just to get into something that I may not stick with forever. But I guess like anything in guns if you buy quality and maintain it you can usually get most of your value back reselling it.
 
#17
Re: Which 700 to buy?

What is your total budget? I am talking:
Rifle
Scope
Bases
Rings
Ammo

That helps us a bit. I know how tight money is, and with a little patience, you can put together a sweet shooter for a few dollars more.

Stainless is the way to go, if you can afford it. Listen to the guys about the Remington 5R. It is a superior rifle to the ones you listed.

That said, the SPS Tactical (20", 1:12 rifle) is a good place to start. Find a used one. Chances are you can get into it fairly reasonably (I got one for $400 that was practically new). Look around for a good stock. Midway had a sale on HS Precision Police Tactical Stocks for under $300 shipped. That rifle is not custom, but with that set up, shoots under 4" at 400 yards. You can not ask for more than that out of a factory gun.

Take that rifle and go shoot the piss out of it, but take care of it. Learn to shoot. By the time you shoot that barrel out, you will be able to step up to a custom barrel, true your action, then have an even better shooting rifle.

Chances are, if you are just starting out, just learning, you will most likely not be able to shoot to that rifles potential. And if you can, then shoot till the rifle holds you back. Once the rifle is the limiting factor, build or buy custom.

Also, scour the for sale section here. A lot of great rifles can be had out there. Just gotta look.
 
#18
Re: Which 700 to buy?

I was thinking of staying around 1100-1200 but I could go a little higher if it'll save me some hassle later. I ordered the Viper HS Tactical 5-15 from midway ($400) and I was thinking of going with TPS rings and 20 MOA rail ($150).

It's questions on here you'll see 20 different responses but it seems like everyone loves the 5R.
 
#21
Re: Which 700 to buy?

i was in your shoes about 3 months ago. i wanted to save the money and go with the SPS-T in a threaded 20". but i waited...saved...and bought the 5R mostly for the stainless. GO STAINLESS!!! when i was looking, i guess i missed that there is an SPS with a BBL in stainless?

now, i only shot it 40 times, and still have not ordered the rings and bases yet. (self employedd and free time is at 0%) i took the nikon prostaff, $12 rings and $10 2 piece bases off of my 30-06 just to at least go shoot it. i did buy a vortex viper PST 4-16x50 MOA scope.

basically, to save you sleepless nights, hours on the internet reading, researching, thinking, and stressing...



just buy the F-ing 5R!!!



seriously

(and, as an aside, stay off of this site. you will spend too much money!!!)
 
#22
Re: Which 700 to buy?

This site's nothing. You ever watch Nutnfancy on youtube? That'll leave a hole in your wallet.

So I guess I'm looking for an R5, preferably used in good condition, possibly with a base thats already bedded.
 
#23
Re: Which 700 to buy?

5r is a shooter without a doubt. Mine is 300wm. Trigget is junk. U will want to change it asap. I have heard good things about the ltr? I think that is wat ots called. It is the one that comes from factory with square fluting.
 
#25
Re: Which 700 to buy?

I started out with a 308 varmint 26”, fast forward through 4 additional 308 rifles both factory and custom, if I were to do it all over I go with the 243 sps varmint. It’s much easier to make first round hits at distance than the 308 and it will stabilize 105 grain berger’s and Hornady A-max. Of course this necessitates reloading, but you have to be independently wealthy not to reload if you’re serious about LR shooting. At about the time you will need to replace the barrel you will have a much better idea about what exactly you want from your rifle.

That said, if you truly want to stick with the 308 cartridge the 5r is the way to go. Most of the others will require a stock swap right off the bat due to what Remington has decided put on them. But if you don’t mind swapping stocks around get either the 20” tactical if most of your shooting will be at or under 800 yards and/or you want the rifle to double as a carry gun for hunting. If it is just going to be a range rifle go with the 26” varmint.

The deference between the extra 6” of barrel is almost exactly 100fps from my personal testing with the same loads shot through both my tactical and varmint using 155 grain and 175 grain bullet/loads. I don’t have a 5r to test but my best guess due to the rifling design and barrel length leads me to believe it should be very close to the same velocity of the 26” varmint.

As for replacement stocks, if you like wood go with a laminate. Those can be found on ebay and gunbroker at ~125.00, composite’s HS precision (used 175-225) is good but I like B&C better (220ish new) and they can generally be found for a lower price than HS. All of the above will benefit from skim bedding. Whether you have it done professionally or do it yourself, do it! The improvement may not yield huge gains in group size but it has been my experience that you will gain consistency. The gunsmithing section has a sticky that will walk you through it, I do my own. If you can afford to step up to manners or mcmillan, they are worth it. Chassis look nice but are heavy and don’t always fit you. Better to try before you buy if at all possible. AICS mag systems are nice but you don’t need one if you aren’t competing in tac/sniper matches.

If you do reload, don’t worry about the overly generous chamber Remington uses in the 308’s they will shoot just fine at factory mag length, find the best powder charge then play with the seating depth. My tactical is testament to this, it routinely turns in 5 shot groups much tighter than one would think a factory rifle should with 175 smk’s at 2.825” OAL.
 
#26
Re: Which 700 to buy?

I decided to go with the SPS Tac, I figured I will just refine my shooting skills on the crappy stock Remington barrel, then upgrade to a higher quality one from one of the above listed companies. I personally hate stainless steel, and I’m not exactly that good at painting things. So the 5r was ruled out for me.

If you are just getting into shooting, I would recommend you go the same route I did, definitely do not regret my decision. The SPS Tac shoots better than I do right now.
 
#33
Re: Which 700 to buy?

So it sounds like I need to decide if I want to put more money into the initial purchase and get a stock that is usable or hold of and have to buy one soon after if I got with a base 700. I'll have to find someone locally that has a HS precision stock to see if that's something that's comfortable for me.
 
#34
Re: Which 700 to buy?

Love my 5R and I'm not too far from you. San Antonio. Since almost no one knows where Helotes is.
grin.gif


003-23.jpg
 
#35
Re: Which 700 to buy?

To answer your question 'short and sweet' ....

Just buy a basic Rem 700 SPS. You will more than likely be changing everything on the rifle anyway.

The first thing to go is the $20 Remington Barrel, although some might disagree with me. The bottom line is that the $20 barrel that Remington furnishes with their 700s leave a lot to be desired in the accuracy field.

On the other hand, the least amount of swapping you will want to do on the rifle, at minimum cost, will be the plastic stock. In other words, don't waste your money on upgrading from an SPS Varmint to a VTR. You will be sorely disappointed, and will end up buying a new barrel and stock anyway. At the minimum you will want to get an H&S Precision stock, and add something new to it yearly.

Most serious shooters by an SPS and change everything but the action, and maybe the bolt.

Hope that helps.
 
#37
Re: Which 700 to buy?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The bottom line is that the $20 barrel that Remington furnishes with their 700s leave a lot to be desired in the accuracy field.</div></div>

I'd get rid of my factory 5R barrel, but there's still over 15 bucks worth of life left in it.

20DollarBarrel.jpg
 
#39
Re: Which 700 to buy?

Yeah .3s out of a 5R, .4s out of an SPS-V big diff, might as well be drain pipe Remington is threading into these actions. Of course not everyone of them will do this and most won't with factory ammo. And the big downfall of the factory barrels tends to be extended strings, but starting out, or just shooting for your own enjoyment they tend to get the job done just fine.

The SPS stocks are garbage, add $220min to the pricetag of any SPS. The triggers are hit or miss on all new Rems. Stainless is nice if you plan to have extended stays in the bush, I know a quick wipe with an oily rag just about kills me at the end of the day. Seriously, matte bluing is an awful idea, parkerizing (700P) atleast holds oil, on the flip side the SPS metal's already sandblasted so it holds paint well, I wanted something more permanent so I had mine duracoated for $60 or $80, problem solved.

If you want to get into the spport for minimum cash outlay, get an SPS-V on sale, which happens often, and a used or B&C stock. Want a shorter barrel? cut and crown is pretty affordable. Want corrosion resistance? dura-coat or a parkerizing job is pretty affordable. Years from now when the barrel is shot out, or you decide to up your game and compete, you have a fine action to build your custom off of. Of course there's always savage too.
 
#40
Re: Which 700 to buy?

You've gotten a lot of excellent advice here. You are new to lr precision shooting and maybe on a budget (I didn't read where you wrote money is tight). I might suggest a different decision tree for you. You are building a system, yet you are only talking about the rifle. You've settled on purpose - lr shooting.

Now pick the glass, a much more important decision then which of the R700 to choose from. If money is tight, and since this isn't for hunting pick a fixed 10x with tactical turrets - Bushnell and SS are good choices here. If you are flush with money - buy as high quality as you can afford, but which still matches purpose. Next buy top quality base (20 moa) and rings - think seekins, Badger, etc.

Finally, choose the rifle based on the money you have LEFT OVER. Everything on that rifle can be swapped out at any time: stock, TRIGGER, barrel (w/ truing). Make those decisions after you put at least 1000 rnds down the barrel. Your factory accuracy will be more than enough to get you through all the leaning you will do in the first 1000 rnds.


(Remember to budget money for ammo and/or reloading.)
 
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