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Which High Quality Workhorse AR15 (or variant) for first AR?

R

richthe1

Sergeant of the Hide
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 31, 2018
337
111
#1
Most important to me:

(1) Reliability
(2) Customer Service (even if they don’t have a written warranty, I want to know that they back up their products)
(3) Easily Serviceable
(4) Availability of Parts (replacement barrels, not too crazy on proprietary parts, etc)
(5) Accuracy

Budget: $1500*** (but I’d like to stay under)

***Note on Budget: I have a 35% off one-time-use promo code at a retailer (Example: Colt Trooper Regular Cost: $1000, with one-time promo code: $650). However, they have a limited selection of models available. From highest to lowest cost they are:

-H&K MR556 A1 (over budget)
-FN 15 Competition
-POF Gen 4 P415
-CZ 805 Bren S1
-Sig MCX Vitrus Patrol
-POF Renegade+
-FN 15 Collector M4
-Barrett REC7 DI Gen II
-LWRCI DI
-Colt LE6920-R Trooper
-Colt LE6920
The retailer also carries other rifles including those from Black Rain Ordnance, Adams Arms, Spike’s Tactical, Bushmaster (ACR), Armalite, DPMS, Sig (M400), Smith & Wesson, Steyr (AUG), and IWI (Tavor X95), Ruger. However, from my limited amount of research, it looks like these are not as highly regarded as those in the list above.
I am also strongly considering the LMT DI CQB Upper on sale at Brownells.
If I can spend below my budget and not sacrifice too much, I’d prefer to do that. For example, would it be a noticeable, big jump going from a Colt LE6920 to a LWRCI DI?
I can look at others in the $1500 price range if it would be worth it, these are just the ones I can get a discount on. Thanks!
 
#3
I would do a bcm complete upper on a lower of your choice personally. Of the ones you listed lwrc di is very good, fn is also nice, I find colts to be fine but too expensive relative to components. Most listed are fairly proprietary so not sure based on your desire for ease of spare parts.
 
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#4
SporterII said:
The LMT deal gets you a monolithic car and two screw barrel bolt change?
Click to expand...
Yes, monolithic upper and easy barrel change.

Delicatessen said:
I would do a bcm complete upper on a lower of your choice personally. Of the ones you listed lwrc di is very good, fn is also nice, I find colts to be fine but too expensive relative to components. Most listed are fairly proprietary so not sure based on your desire for ease of spare parts.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input. Proprietary stuff is okay with me, as long as it’s easy to buy. Sorry I wasn’t clear. For instance, LMT looks to have great support for their barrel system, even though it’s proprietary. Whereas I had trouble finding a spare barrel option for the Sig MCX Vitrus. I will look at BCM, I’ve heard great things.
 
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#5
Everyone needs a KAC carbine.

With that said, my oldest, most beat to shit carbine that has had almost every single part of it replaced over the years due to use/wear is a Stag flat top I've had for 14 years. It's on its 4th or 5th barrel, and the only original parts in it still are the stripped upper and lower receivers and the buffer tube. It has so many different coats of paint on it that old coats wouldn't come off and now texture/raise new coats.

But, it runs everything as far as ammo there is. It likes every mag on the planet. If it malfunctions its something you did. I have KAC guns and everything there is, and this is the gun I grab the most. Don't get too hung up on manufacturers, price points and fancy shit.
 
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#6
To get an easily serviceable and durable AR on a budget, staying pretty close to Mil Spec everything is the easy way to do it.

I would probably go for the Colt 6920 and tack on a nice scope, maybe some new furniture, a bunch of magazines and a case or two of ammo (I like PMC X-TAC 62 grain) to take advantage of that 35% off.

The thing about a first AR is you don't really know what you want yet so a workhorse is a better idea than a thuroughbred.

If you can try a few to figure out what you like, you might get closer to what you'll ultimately want.
 
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#8
richthe1 said:
Most important to me:

(1) Reliability
(2) Customer Service (even if they don’t have a written warranty, I want to know that they back up their products)
(3) Easily Serviceable
(4) Availability of Parts (replacement barrels, not too crazy on proprietary parts, etc)
(5) Accuracy

Budget: $1500*** (but I’d like to stay under)

***Note on Budget: I have a 35% off one-time-use promo code at a retailer (Example: Colt Trooper Regular Cost: $1000, with one-time promo code: $650). However, they have a limited selection of models available. From highest to lowest cost they are:

-H&K MR556 A1 (over budget)
-FN 15 Competition
-POF Gen 4 P415
-CZ 805 Bren S1
-Sig MCX Vitrus Patrol
-POF Renegade+
-FN 15 Collector M4
-Barrett REC7 DI Gen II
-LWRCI DI
-Colt LE6920-R Trooper
-Colt LE6920
The retailer also carries other rifles including those from Black Rain Ordnance, Adams Arms, Spike’s Tactical, Bushmaster (ACR), Armalite, DPMS, Sig (M400), Smith & Wesson, Steyr (AUG), and IWI (Tavor X95), Ruger. However, from my limited amount of research, it looks like these are not as highly regarded as those in the list above.
I am also strongly considering the LMT DI CQB Upper on sale at Brownells.
If I can spend below my budget and not sacrifice too much, I’d prefer to do that. For example, would it be a noticeable, big jump going from a Colt LE6920 to a LWRCI DI?
I can look at others in the $1500 price range if it would be worth it, these are just the ones I can get a discount on. Thanks!
Click to expand...

I'm assuming that you don't want to build a lower & just buy a lower.

In that case, you won't find a better gun in it's price range than the Sig 400 Elite. I have an early one that is accurate & dependable.............never, ever missed a lick even with shitt ammo.

But anything from BCM configured however you like it is also top shelf, & as with the Sig, mine eats anything you feed it & never burps, accurate enough for its intended purposes.

If you like the A2 front sight, then the Colt 6920 always works & it's a Colt.

Anything FN that fits what you want will also be just fine..........some I like more than others.

MM
 
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#9
Dude buy the LMT upper deal from brownells. Then find a complete mil-spec complete lower of your choice. (Lmt, knights, Colt, bcm, FNH) (fuck Daniel defense) The MRP system is incredible.

When it comes to “top tier” AR’s there’s LMT and there’s KAC.

With LMT you get the structurally strongest and most versatile AR15 upper of all time and with the KAC you get a standard design with enhanced parts and a shittily designed hand guard system.
 
#10
With AR's its hit and miss until you go to JP price point. I've have guns that need work while a buddy buys the same one and is gtg. Don't get hung up too much on manufacturers on the lower price point. And don't get hung up on service either. Eventually you will find its easier to learn how to make them work then ship them off only to have them come back and not work. Just buy a good base platform from a manufacturer that isn't total vs and make it yours. Learn it and tinker until everytime something happens you know the reason why.
 
#11
Delicatessen said:
I would do a bcm complete upper on a lower of your choice personally. Of the ones you listed lwrc di is very good, fn is also nice, I find colts to be fine but too expensive relative to components. Most listed are fairly proprietary so not sure based on your desire for ease of spare parts.
Click to expand...
I have a BCM 12.5" on a RRA lower. Fit is perfect. 223 will Short stroke and 556 runs. I have AA4 2000 so it's great for a CQ carbine. LMTupper does sound better starting from scratch.
ETA; running A-1 stock rifle buffer.
 
#12
I'd buy the POF Renegade +. It seems to have the most and best features to cost ratio. If you can go $500 over budget then get a KAC in 20 years it will be worth more than what you paid for it and is probably the only AR that will.
 
#13
Barret rec7, or bcm. I would just buy a complete rifle . Both reliable . Would probably never shoot the barrels out. If you did they would probably Send you a free one . I have the rec16 from bcm. It shoots good, has spit out all ammo I’ve put through it .
 
#14
SporterII said:
I have a BCM 12.5" on a RRA lower. Fit is perfect. 223 will Short stroke and 556 runs. I have AA4 2000 so it's great for a CQ carbine. LMTupper does sound better starting from scratch.
ETA; running A-1 stock rifle buffer.
Click to expand...
Yeah lmt is very good but pricey and proprietary if that’s a concern. I am guessing you might need a lighter buffer for your 12.5”. To date have multiple but only 14.5, 16 and blackout pistol uppers on various lowers and all shoot anything I put in them. I generally use the carbine buffer weight range (usually h2)
 
#16
Factory BCM, don't forget to look at the LWRCs. FN makes a great rifle I doubt you would shoot the barrel out on and moving at great prices right now. lightweight....2A Armament.
 
Last edited:
#17
Colt meets your requirements and budget better than about anything I can think of. KAC makes great carbines and I use them daily. They do not meet your budget and have proprietary parts. You cannot go wrong starting with a Colt.
 
#18
LMT. The barrel is proprietary as is the monolithic upper. About any good barrel maker 'could' make a barrel for it if they're willing. Your favorite lower and a Geiselle SSE trigger group. I've handled a dozen + BCGs including two verified LMTs. Can not find a difference between any of them regardless of price as long as it's a standard FA BCG.

2nd. choice would likely be the FN.
 
#20
hypno02 said:
Dude buy the LMT upper deal from brownells. Then find a complete mil-spec complete lower of your choice. (Lmt, knights, Colt, bcm, FNH) (fuck Daniel defense) The MRP system is incredible.

When it comes to “top tier” AR’s there’s LMT and there’s KAC.

With LMT you get the structurally strongest and most versatile AR15 upper of all time and with the KAC you get a standard design with enhanced parts and a shittily designed hand guard system.
Click to expand...

This guy. For my money there's not a better AR platform on the market, LMT for the win.

P.s. LMT manufactures the KAC lowers on a variance. Only reason to buy KAC over LMT is if you have to have the KAC logo.
 
#21
LMT.

If you go the Brownells route you can get a MARS-L complete lower for under $650 shipped to your dealer if you shop around a little, and then add a LMT BCG and Geissele SCH for another $250 or so.

There was a dealer that just had the full MRP rifles with the rifle length MLOK upper, BUIS, ambi CH, and the MAR-L lower for $1500. That's an even better deal if you don't mind waiting for them to come back around.
 
#23
1.) The one you build will be better than any off the shelf rifle for your purposes. Can this "discount" be applied to parts? If so I can provide a parts list.

2.) As others have mentioned, an LMT (especially if you add their enhanced BCG to the upper) or KAC would be ideal. Can said retailer special order and apply the discount? Or you could always use the discount to flip the rifle at a profit on Armslist or something and use that to afford the KAC or LMT.

3.) If you really have to pick one off that list, then the POF Renegade Plus is best, has a good AGB and trigger out of the box.
 
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#24
Thanks for all the input. Doesn’t sound like I can make a bad choice going with LMT, BCM, LWRC, Colt, or a couple others.
redneckbmxer24 said:
There was a dealer that just had the full MRP rifles with the rifle length MLOK upper, BUIS, ambi CH, and the MAR-L lower for $1500. That's an even better deal if you don't mind waiting for them to come back around.
Click to expand...
Do you remember who the dealer was so I can keep an eye out?

Potss said:
1.) The one you build will be better than any off the shelf rifle for your purposes. Can this "discount" be applied to parts? If so I can provide a parts list.

2.) As others have mentioned, an LMT (especially if you add their enhanced BCG to the upper) or KAC would be ideal. Can said retailer special order and apply the discount? Or you could always use the discount to flip the rifle at a profit on Armslist or something and use that to afford the KAC or LMT.

3.) If you really have to pick one off that list, then the POF Renegade Plus is best, has a good AGB and trigger out of the box.
Click to expand...
1.) No parts, just factory rifles.
2.) Unfortunately no special orders, only valid on in-stock purchases
3.) Thanks for the input!
 
#26
Is this a general purpose AR?

If so, buy the Pony. The ubiquitous 6920 is at rock bottom pricing now. A 6720 is nice lt weight walker, esp if you don’t hang a bunch of shit on it. Same with the 6933.

KAC

LMT, BCM , Colt
 
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#27
For reliability believe it or not saw a video on the MP Sport went 840 rounds full auto as fast as he could do mag changes. Still fired single shot after the gas tube melted. You might as well save a little if you can. Your first one will just be a "starter Kit" anyway you are gonna make changes anyway. Think the video was on Irag veteran 888 youtube.
 
#32
LMT M4 upper
LMT Defender 2000 lower (you can get that lower with two kinds of stocks and a single or 2 stage trigger, I'd get the single stage and the SOPMOD stock).
A BCG (LMT would be nice, yeah?)
I'd get a cheap Brownell's/Geissele made trigger when they go on sale to swap out in the lower.

I've got two rifles built like this, they have the KAC M4 rails. I call 'em my "rack rifles". They're identical to, but better than, the issue M4. Better trigger, better stock, better barrel. If you buy the upper, lower and BCG separate, then it'll cost about $100 less than if you bought the rifle in the same configuration. Why pay them $100 just to stick the upper on the lower?

That's about the cheapest setup for a quality M4 and it'll keep you within your price range.

I've built most of my rifles and I use KAC stuff but truth be told, I wish I'd gotten some factory KAC rifles along the way. I have my SR25 and it's just the titties. If you can save for a NEW complete KAC rifle, I'd do that. Would take too long here to explain the differences, it's like an AR but proprietary for the most part and just WAAY better than anything I can build. Worth saving for, definitely worth saving for. You could get an upper and build a lower to save some money if you don't need the ambi lower, but for the extra $$ I'd get the whole thing.

And KAC will retain it's value better than just about any other rifle out there (a guy recently parted one out for MORE than it cost new!). So if you don't like it, sell it and get something else, have money left over.
 
#33
Honestly, at the $1500 price point you have lot of good choices - as the multiple recommendations you are getting in this thread illustrates. BCM makes a very good product that would definitely satisfy all of your criteria and would be less expensive than some of the other alternatives.

If I were you I would buy a BCM upper and then build your lower, which is very easy to do. Get an Aeroprecision or Spikes Tactical receiver, the stock of your choice, and a LaRue MBT trigger. Use any money you save on a good optic and mount - either an Aimpoint/Primary Arms red dot (depending on your budget), or an Eotech, or a 1x4 or 1x6 scope (SWFA offers a very good value).

I also own and regularly shoot a POF415, and can recommend it. I have a couple of thousand rounds through it. They are extremely accurate, and mine has been 100% reliable. However, they are heavy in general and front heavy. They also have a pretty high cheek weld with most optics (which I like but you may not). And mine came with a very nice single stage trigger - but a lot of people prefer two stage triggers.
 
#34
Also, I would spend some time thinking about what you want to do with the rifle. Your potential uses will impact barrel length, twist rate of barrel, stainless or chrome lined barrel, type of stock, and optics. Thus, if you want to shoot long range you will probably want a heavy stainless barrel, with a 1:7 twist rate, a longer barrel, and an optic with a fair amount of magnification.

On the other hand, if you are looking for a home defense, SHTF, short range rifle you will want a chrome lined barrel, that is on the shorter side, and a red dot or Eotech sight.
 
#36
Strykervet said:
If you buy the upper, lower and BCG separate, then it'll cost about $100 less than if you bought the rifle in the same configuration. Why pay them $100 just to stick the upper on the lower?
Click to expand...

LMT SPM16 $869.95

No way are you buying a defender 2000 lower, the upper, BCG, and CH for that let alone $100 less and the rifle comes with the sight which is over $100, plus some other extras. The best deal you're going to find on a standard LMT lower is going to be about $325 and then $500 for the bare upper and you've still got to get a BCG, CH, hand guard, and sight.
 
#38
Mike_Honcho said:
Wow....that’s a pretty nice price on that. It is a little cheaper than the Pony too.

Does the LMT really come with a semi auto bolt carrier (per the description)?
Click to expand...

Yes, standard is semi but if you order from LMT (dealer sales only) you can order it with auto carrier for no additional charge and you can get the enhanced carrier for like $50 more too.
 
#40
If it was I doing it all over again, my first one or two ARs would have been on the cheaper side. Unless it is a large frame AR, I will personally from now on just build it.

As long as you know you will have to make compromises on parts to meet a budget, you can still build a great functioning AR that you want exactly. Plenty of people here more than happy to help.

Like others have said though, buy the upper, build the lower. The largest portion of customization goes into the lower. Stock, grip, trigger, and saftey selector. Those are the most common items to get replaced on any off the shelf AR. After that the next common thing to replace is possibly the muzzle device, not much else to do to an upper. But back to the lower, stock and grip is roughly $100, trigger on average is $100-$250, saftey selector another $65.

Now, buying a full AR off the shelf gets you out on the range shooting now, and you can swap the aforementioned parts as money allows. Except why pay for what you are going to swap out later?
Now some parts may be just fine, like my Daniel Defense I happened to like the stock, and my Sig 716 the saftey was good enough. Everything else on the two rifles was replaced that I mentioned earlier.

Now with all that said, it's hard to find an AR at $1,500+ that I would not hesitate to depend on for my life. Your optic has a much larger chance of taking a shit than the rifle will.
If I wasn't building a SHTF gun, I would look at the BCM RECCE-16.
 
#42
I think I’m going to pull the trigger on the LMT CQB Starter Upper. I think I will really enjoy the versatility of the LMT switch barrel system, even though it’s proprietary.

I do have a question: can I use a 20” barrel on the CQB? On the website it only says up to 18”. Is this because on a 20” barrel the gas block would be unprotected on the shorter CQB handguard? Or is a 20” barrel truly not compatible with the CQB?

In my head, I picture this set-up to be a great general workhorse but also have LMT 20” 5.56 or .224 Valkyrie (and bolt) barrels and use them for some precision work from time to time. The MLR Upper reciever would be a better option for this and I might be one in the future, but I can get a better deal on the CQB right now.

Is this a good idea? Thanks!
 
#43
I'm definitely no AR expert by any means but id look into seekins rifles. Seem like they make a bad ass line of products. Backed by a lifetime warranty and Frank did an over view/interview and some shooting with them recently...it's on the hide YouTube channel....
 
#44
richthe1 said:
I think I’m going to pull the trigger on the LMT CQB Starter Upper. I think I will really enjoy the versatility of the LMT switch barrel system, even though it’s proprietary.

I do have a question: can I use a 20” barrel on the CQB? On the website it only says up to 18”. Is this because on a 20” barrel the gas block would be unprotected on the shorter CQB handguard? Or is a 20” barrel truly not compatible with the CQB?

In my head, I picture this set-up to be a great general workhorse but also have LMT 20” 5.56 or .224 Valkyrie (and bolt) barrels and use them for some precision work from time to time. The MLR Upper reciever would be a better option for this and I might be one in the future, but I can get a better deal on the CQB right now.

Is this a good idea? Thanks!
Click to expand...

This is a great starting point. You are putting yourself in a position that’s very versatile. The longer barrels will certainly work in the cqb chassis but like you said the gas block and tube will be somewhat exposed.
 
#45
I see a lot of people recommend Colt. I had one H-bar a few years ago. Didn’t run very well, and wasn’t accurate at all regardless of the ammo I put through it. Wasn’t that the point of the H-bar, to have a fairly accurate match rifle right out of the box? Also had a Combat Elite 45 from the same time frame. Gun wouldn’t run. Third smith to work on it finally figured out that the pin holes for the slide stop were drilled crooked in the frame. He fixed it and it runs great now (after spending three times the cost of the gun because I was to stubborn to give up on it), but who the hell machines pin holes cock eyed in a frame bad enough that it won’t work? Between the two, I’m done with colt. Won’t have another one. The are riding on a reputation, and I hope they are turning out a better product than they used to.
 
#46
Bolt carrier, Barrel, trigger. The only things that matter for performance of the rifle. Generally speaking. obviously gas system tuning as well depending on the setup but the rest is just creature comforts and aesthetics. My recommendation is to build an Aero Precision receiver set. Cheap but excellent craftsmanship and machine work. tight tolerances and makes a great "solid" feeling rifle. Throw a geissele in it, quality barrel, and quality bcg. you can't go wrong.
 
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#47
i’ll push a bit - i have a sig rattler. it rocks. totally awesome.

Also, the FN is going to be a pretty good gun. They kicked colt off the milspec contracts and they make a well optioned gun at a good price.
 
#48
Can't beat a DI AR from a spare parts perspective but the Bren 805s are selling under $1,500 on gunbroker. I think you would go broke before feeding one of those enough ammo to choke on. Great trigger, silky smooth action and clean piston system. I've got a full size rifle and SBR. Great rifles! FN-15's are selling on Europtic for under $800 shipped. Again, won't be able to shoot that cold hammer forged, double chrome lined, barrel out in a lifetime.
 
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