I am getting ready to buy first pvs 14. Without worrying about recoil or difference in money is there a substantial difference in an itt pinnacle tube vs l3 omni viii. With regards to clarity, brightness, blemishes any help would be appreciated.
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Night Vision Which pvs 14
- Thread starter Antelope420
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TestDoc gave you a good answer. Hunter and his staff at ModArmory have been oustanding and the customer service is great. I have purchased dedicated NV scopes, PVS-14's, numerous laser, thermal devices, etc from them and been totally satisfied.
I have both of the tube set ups you asked about and both are very good. The best is the PVS-14 RC. It is recoil rated for 7.62, and it is by far the brightest and clearest. It is also a bit more expensive.
I have both of the tube set ups you asked about and both are very good. The best is the PVS-14 RC. It is recoil rated for 7.62, and it is by far the brightest and clearest. It is also a bit more expensive.
Vic and the gang at TNVC have been nothing but awesome to me. Excellent CS, bar none actually, and they'll educate vs. sell --they don't care if you hang up without placing an order. They sort of do this NODs game a bit different than the rest of the industry it seems, perhaps because they're mostly all vets and active soldiers. I'd call TNVC if I were you, and that's just based on TONS of research and emails and phone calls I made over the summer before I pulled the trigger on my own 14's. By all means shop around, but keep TNVC in the back of your mind.
I've explained this so many times I'm bore to write it out again to be honest, but I could cut and past something I wrote to another fellow if you PM me. It outlines all the factual differences between the different models. For instance, ITT tubes use thinner film and thus can theoretically get cleaner images, but lower recoil. ITT factory models are also made by ITT in a factory clean room to OMNI7 specs, which are tighter than OMNI8, the newer ones. L3 considers the tube itself as the factory item and the monocular can be assembled by a third party and considered factory. L3 tube uses thicker film, that's how it has higher recoil rating, btw.
But bottom line, no matter what you do, get the HAND SELECT MODEL!!! L3 TNVC model, ITT factory, whatever. Fuck milspec, fuck commercial, fuck it unless it's been hand selected. TNVC extended a special guarantee to me that if I could find a better pair of 14's on all of Ft. Lewis from my buds at SF, INF. units, etc., and I just couldn't find one. The spec sheet was basically maxxed out. They'll work with you too on what specs you want.
To save money, and in retrospect, I may have gotten the TNVC L3 model that they build inhouse with spec sheets on the tube as they claim they can get numbers from time to time that literally max what factory 14's are capable of. May be a wait, but you'd have the best there is.
I'm skeptical of 7.62 recoil rated NODs. And why would you need 'em anyway! Lasers work best for head mounted NODs. Period. 14's only work good behind an EOTech or some other reflex sights in limited situations. I have a setup that I never use, so just forget about that IMO. Head mounted NODs and laser hits are good to 300m and past, depending. In short, I can't see myself ever mounting a 14 to a rifle, particularly a 7.62. Just wouldn't risk it. Clip ons are made for it, PVS-27 perhaps, yeah. 14's, no.
In addition, I'd get a GOOD mount for your NODs. Don't skimp out here. Lots of good offerings from Wilcox and Norotos. For a light and stable soft mount, no helmet, that Crye Precision soft mount is really great and inexpensive. And the mount you get for it will work with a helmet too.
In addition, most folks can't tell the difference between a hand select L3 and a hand select ITT, FWIW. In short, you can't go wrong with any of TNVC's hand select offerings, whether they're ITT factory or L3 inhouse models, OMNI7 or OMNI8.
Just steer clear of gimmicks and "designer NODs" who knows how they work over time. Get a good head mount for now, and later a clip on that can handle much more recoil, as well as being deigned for rifles, later down the road. That's my plan anyway.
At any rate, give the guys at TNVC a call. Great folks and they'll be able to get you squared away. Make sure to let them know if you are active duty or disabled vet, you may get a discount, who knows. But I must say these guys have gone above and beyond in assisting me and squaring me away. Best CS I've ever experienced from any company, ever. That's not an exaggeration either.
Good luck!
I've explained this so many times I'm bore to write it out again to be honest, but I could cut and past something I wrote to another fellow if you PM me. It outlines all the factual differences between the different models. For instance, ITT tubes use thinner film and thus can theoretically get cleaner images, but lower recoil. ITT factory models are also made by ITT in a factory clean room to OMNI7 specs, which are tighter than OMNI8, the newer ones. L3 considers the tube itself as the factory item and the monocular can be assembled by a third party and considered factory. L3 tube uses thicker film, that's how it has higher recoil rating, btw.
But bottom line, no matter what you do, get the HAND SELECT MODEL!!! L3 TNVC model, ITT factory, whatever. Fuck milspec, fuck commercial, fuck it unless it's been hand selected. TNVC extended a special guarantee to me that if I could find a better pair of 14's on all of Ft. Lewis from my buds at SF, INF. units, etc., and I just couldn't find one. The spec sheet was basically maxxed out. They'll work with you too on what specs you want.
To save money, and in retrospect, I may have gotten the TNVC L3 model that they build inhouse with spec sheets on the tube as they claim they can get numbers from time to time that literally max what factory 14's are capable of. May be a wait, but you'd have the best there is.
I'm skeptical of 7.62 recoil rated NODs. And why would you need 'em anyway! Lasers work best for head mounted NODs. Period. 14's only work good behind an EOTech or some other reflex sights in limited situations. I have a setup that I never use, so just forget about that IMO. Head mounted NODs and laser hits are good to 300m and past, depending. In short, I can't see myself ever mounting a 14 to a rifle, particularly a 7.62. Just wouldn't risk it. Clip ons are made for it, PVS-27 perhaps, yeah. 14's, no.
In addition, I'd get a GOOD mount for your NODs. Don't skimp out here. Lots of good offerings from Wilcox and Norotos. For a light and stable soft mount, no helmet, that Crye Precision soft mount is really great and inexpensive. And the mount you get for it will work with a helmet too.
In addition, most folks can't tell the difference between a hand select L3 and a hand select ITT, FWIW. In short, you can't go wrong with any of TNVC's hand select offerings, whether they're ITT factory or L3 inhouse models, OMNI7 or OMNI8.
Just steer clear of gimmicks and "designer NODs" who knows how they work over time. Get a good head mount for now, and later a clip on that can handle much more recoil, as well as being deigned for rifles, later down the road. That's my plan anyway.
At any rate, give the guys at TNVC a call. Great folks and they'll be able to get you squared away. Make sure to let them know if you are active duty or disabled vet, you may get a discount, who knows. But I must say these guys have gone above and beyond in assisting me and squaring me away. Best CS I've ever experienced from any company, ever. That's not an exaggeration either.
Good luck!
Strykervet,so either 14 I would be happy with in lowlight conditions,apples and oranges correct
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You don't have to call anyone to get a answer. Just call and order one!
L3 has impressed me more than any. The filmless tube has very good clarity and brightness. Plus in the event that you wanna mount it on a rifle it will handle more recoil. I've had a night enforcer ITT pinnacle pvs-14 for years so I'm not just bashing the pinnacle.
But Peter at I^2 has the pvs-14RC. Recoil rated to a .308 and lowlights review was pretty good on it as far as clarity.
If you call I^2 you will be glad you did. He also has a 5 year warranty on everything that leaves his shop! Hard to beat that!
L3 has impressed me more than any. The filmless tube has very good clarity and brightness. Plus in the event that you wanna mount it on a rifle it will handle more recoil. I've had a night enforcer ITT pinnacle pvs-14 for years so I'm not just bashing the pinnacle.
But Peter at I^2 has the pvs-14RC. Recoil rated to a .308 and lowlights review was pretty good on it as far as clarity.
If you call I^2 you will be glad you did. He also has a 5 year warranty on everything that leaves his shop! Hard to beat that!
Oh and by the way, you would want a .308 recoil rated pvs-14 if you want to mount it on a day scope and shoot 1000yrds.... Price a pvs-14 and then price a pvs-22. It'll be around $12,000. Don't have that much? Then buy a $4000 pvs-14 and your good.
It's possible. Trust me!
It's possible. Trust me!
Yeah, I've heard that if you get a good L3 or ITT it's hard to tell the difference between them if they're both spec'd high. The biggest thing, IMO, is to get a HAND SELECT system. There's a big difference, IMO, between regular milspec and run of the mill commercial, L3 or ITT. Hand select allows you to discuss the specs you want with the dealer.
If it matters to you, ITT models are made in their ISO cert. cleanroom, they're the only ones guaranteed to be built that way. The entire unit is, not just the tube. That combined with the thinner film, OMNI7 build and hand select tube, it was exactly what I was looking for personally. But I never intended on putting it on a rifle, that's what IR lasers are for (though I can put it behind an EOTech on a 5.56). I wanted the best head mount system for the money, and I felt this was it. It's certainly the best I've ever used and better than the issue ones I compared it to at Ft. Lewis. I have zero complaints.
But I didn't want to take any chances with my first set, I wanted a sure thing and a sealed factory ITT unit seemed to be it. Were I to get a second one though, I'd get one of TNVC's hand select L3 models and wait for the best one I could get.
Bottom line is you can't go wrong with either brand of tube. Difference between L3 and ITT tubes are film thickness, and thus recoil rating and perhaps slight image quality, and difference between 14's, the sets themselves, are basically where they are made and who made them. With some ITT stuff, OMNI7 vs. 8 can be an option too (but if it's hand select I'm not so sure this is as big of a deal if at all). At the end of the day, there are two night vision manufacturers in US: ITT and L3.
If it matters to you, ITT models are made in their ISO cert. cleanroom, they're the only ones guaranteed to be built that way. The entire unit is, not just the tube. That combined with the thinner film, OMNI7 build and hand select tube, it was exactly what I was looking for personally. But I never intended on putting it on a rifle, that's what IR lasers are for (though I can put it behind an EOTech on a 5.56). I wanted the best head mount system for the money, and I felt this was it. It's certainly the best I've ever used and better than the issue ones I compared it to at Ft. Lewis. I have zero complaints.
But I didn't want to take any chances with my first set, I wanted a sure thing and a sealed factory ITT unit seemed to be it. Were I to get a second one though, I'd get one of TNVC's hand select L3 models and wait for the best one I could get.
Bottom line is you can't go wrong with either brand of tube. Difference between L3 and ITT tubes are film thickness, and thus recoil rating and perhaps slight image quality, and difference between 14's, the sets themselves, are basically where they are made and who made them. With some ITT stuff, OMNI7 vs. 8 can be an option too (but if it's hand select I'm not so sure this is as big of a deal if at all). At the end of the day, there are two night vision manufacturers in US: ITT and L3.
L3 offers a filmless tube also, don't for get that. It is also rated for more recoil. Also you are wrong... There's 3 makers! ITT,L3 and ATN! Lol
I've got 2 tubes from Vic. 1st was a hand select ITT night enforcer PVS 14. Brilliant.... No blemishes that I can see with my naked eye. 2nd I took a chance on a TNV ITT PVS 14 non select tube. Thought I'd pinch and save a lil bit cause it was gonna be beat and banged around hunting. And it's pretty good too. 2 lil specs, i think 2 o'clock and 10 o'clock not noticeable unless looked directly at on the outer edge of the tube. I think TNVC holds high standards that you'll be happy with not matter what you order. Not leaving out Frankie AMS1, I've bought NV optics from him good guy. I've looked through both L3 and ITT, my advice, flip a coin and buy 1. Because YOU are not gonna be able to see the difference. I couldn't see the difference, it was just a quick glimpse in each.
In an Apples to Apples comparison ITT Pinnacle Vs L3 Filmed Omni 8, given matching specs and screen quality you would be hard pressed to tell a difference. In addition with variable gain the whole question of which tube is brighter is moot.
That being said (here comes the sales pitch!) we have Hand Select, Image Clean, with high specs(call and choose your specs from the many units we have on hand), L-3 Omni 8 PVS-14s in stock ready to ship. These systems are built with Current L-3 tubes and supplied with Factory Data Sheets. They are covered by our impeccable 5 year bumper to bumper warranty. In Addition, All of our PVS-14s Come with a specially engineered High Strength Infinity Focus Ring (HSIFR) for ring type weapons mounting. Our ring, through a neat physics trick combined with its specific alloy, ACTUALLY reinforces the 2400 Glass filled Ultem of the upper monocular housing. This ring was originally only intended for our PVS-14RC (.308 rated unit) but we decided to offer it on ALL of models of our PVS 14s, ITT, L-3, and of course the ICT PVS14RC.
So Why Wait? Omni-8, ready to put in a box!
Basic kit $3150
Weapons kit $3290
Full Kit $3440
As a bonus, order any kit from now till the end of the year and add an Ops Core Base Jump helmet (Tan S/M and Tan M/L instock) for only $195.00
I didn't forget 'em, I just don't think our military uses ATN for one. For two, I've also had a couple of ATN scopes in the past that I was NOT pleased with at all. I'm wary of anything ATN, but that's just me. Perhaps their NV department makes better stuff, I don't know. Then there's also the Russian gear. But I'll just stick with ITT and L3 tubes and in proven housings like the PVS-14 or others.
OP, you heard Loggers Inn: he got a hand select ITT Night Enforcer like me, perfect system. Got TNVC built but no hand select tube, had a couple blemishes (but not bad by mil standards I understand) but he could have gotten one even better than his first one for less were it hand selected. ALWAYS get hand select whatever PVS-14 you get! If there isn't a hand select option, that's not the one you want.
TNVC will square you away, just make sure to set the specs on what you want, what you plan on using it for and how, what you want them to hand select for, and they'll get you a great set of NODs and can help you get the most for your dollar.
I'm with you 100%! But please don't think I was serious about ATN! Lol like the saying goes, friends don't let friends use ATN! I'm not sure if the military is using filmless yet or not. I know the life span was short but I think that problem is fixed now. TNVC is good, ASM1 is good, MOD armory is good and I^2 is good. It's just who ever wins the coin toss. The 5 year warranty of peter makes me want to do business there tho.
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Just to clear up nasty rumors and such. ..Yes ALL our TNV-14's come with a clear cut 5 year on tube AND system. Warranty card, data sheets etc. Always had it since the onset of our popular TNV-14's.
We still have our special Christmas L3 Omni 8 Mil Spec Tube TNV-14's on sale for $2894.00.
Hope this clears up the rumors. Happy New Year.
Vic
We still have our special Christmas L3 Omni 8 Mil Spec Tube TNV-14's on sale for $2894.00.
Hope this clears up the rumors. Happy New Year.
Vic
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Nasty rumors?? Guess I didn't read this thread well enough because I didn't see any.
ITT who designed and holds the patent on the PVS-14 housing only rated the housing for 5.56. I have never seen any official documentation to the contrary. I use an aluminum focus lock ring on my personal PVS-14 because it is tougher than the plastic OEM one.
What I don't get is that the lens threads are still plastic held into the plastic body by an aluminum lens lock ring. All the rings that hold the tube in place are held in with plastic threads. I understand aluminum rings are tougher than plastic but if the threads they connect to are still plastic molded inside a plastic housing how does this magically make my PVS-14 housing designed by ITT rated for .308 ?
Nobody has ever been able to answer this question with proven facts and documentation. I would call TNVC OP. Just my .02. Happy New Year !!
What I don't get is that the lens threads are still plastic held into the plastic body by an aluminum lens lock ring. All the rings that hold the tube in place are held in with plastic threads. I understand aluminum rings are tougher than plastic but if the threads they connect to are still plastic molded inside a plastic housing how does this magically make my PVS-14 housing designed by ITT rated for .308 ?
Nobody has ever been able to answer this question with proven facts and documentation. I would call TNVC OP. Just my .02. Happy New Year !!
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Not sure on all this rumor milly stuff, but since I started reading on this NV forum awhile back there have been quite a few shills and others who work for this and that and the site admin caught them red handed. Good on him. Is not the "rumor" true from other forums you also work for another NV company?
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I see you edited yor post before I could finish typing. Lol. Glad that you retracted you statement of bad mouthing others because I did no such thing. I just asked where the "nasty rumors" where in this thread. Since you've started reading this forum have you always looked up posting members on our forums? Are you looking for something? It is no rumor as you state, I do work for a NV company that is a vendor here and other forums as well but you already knew that!
Technically not in this thread you bad mouthed someone directly but you quoted another sponsor here, and it was liked from another NV company (that was fishy), so I looked around a bit where you have bad mouthed others. Sure enough you give advice and recommendations of NV products and services from you and your partners. The common people here think you're giving unbiased information, you may just be a normal consumer with no ties to anyone. But that is not true since no one knows you really work for another NV company, but you had to say something here only because someone pointed it out. That is not fair, and I for one will not do business with companies who resort to these tactics.
So you accuse me of saying something I didn't and then say well not technically in this forum but in others. Then you chase me around the nets to dig up dirt. LOL. I have seen this before! 80-90% of your post since you became a member are bad mouthing, calling people out or pointing out what you think is a shill. Why are you so interested in all this "shill and bad mouthing crap? Seems to me that you are pretty well versed in the art of shilling yourself bro and that you only post in the this forum when you need to accuse someone and flap your gums! I do give unbiased info to people because I don't really give a shit where people buy things, as a matter of fact I plug other NV vendors on here more than the company I work for. "This is not fair", you gonna take your toys and go home now? Do business with whatever company you choose my man but me helping you derail the OP's thread is done. PM me anytime
OP, see how this shit goes? Make damn sure to do your research, call and talk to folks. If they sound like used car salesmen or try to dazzle you with bullshit if you seem like a hard sell, then run, run, run.
I did a lot of research and got a lot of correspondence. I've got one email that'd certainly weed one of these dealers out for good --permanently. It was a private correspondence so I won't publish it (and you're damn lucky I don't). I'd likely get banned for doing it anyway. Some will say ANYTHING to make the sale. NV market is like a shark tank, and I'll explain why:
Here's the skinny, and if anyone denies this, fuck 'em, they're just trying to sell you on something.
ITT and L3 and all (most, technically) the major NODs dealers are in the same neighborhood. Search "night vision" and just look at the map. The difference between L3 and ITT are essentially the thickness of the film in the tube, which is just a few atoms wide, and a few atoms width between the two. Additionally, you can still find OMNI7 ITT models and ITT factory shit is made in their ISO cleanroom facility (this was as selling point for me). They consider the entire unit whereas I think L3 only considers the tube and will allow the device to be assembled by another party. This isn't exactly a bad thing though, just a difference worth noting since you're researching. An ITT factory model will not only come with the spec sheet on the tube, but it'll come with the factory build sheet for the entire unit --ITT is the only one that does this. Your biggest concern is to get a hand select model (tube to be exact) --regardless of who you deal with. It'll come with the factory spec sheet on the tube itself, just not the entire device (which again, isn't THAT big of a deal). You'll be sold on milspec shit "SF uses these!" but I got Strykervet spec shit and it'll best any 14 I could find issued to a ground unit on Ft. Lewis. That was one of my stipulations on the sale and I got that in writing. Yeah, I was a hard sale. Oh, OMNI7 is stricter than OMNI8, they changed the specs because too many got rejected. So technically speaking, and in my own opinion, the best there is would be the hand select ITT OMNI7 factory build. Also in my opinion, I'd opt against the complete "kit" and get the NODs and padded case and get your own mounts and such. You can do better than the rhino, J-arm/bayonet mount and skullcrusher, that shit's a waste of money IMO, and the issue case is worthless if you actually value the NODs.
It really comes down to the dealer then, since there are two manufacturers that make nearly the exact same shit to the exact same specs, only in different grades and with different accessories. Hence the hand select deal. If your dealer won't work with you on YOU picking out the numbers then they're not the best dealer, that's a fact. Additionally, the hand select device shouldn't cost hundreds more from dealer to dealer and milspec from dealer A should never cost more than hand select from dealer B for the same item for obvious reasons. "But they're what SF gets issued and do I really want anything less?" I've heard even worse than that too. CS should be stellar, because at the end of the day, that's essentially all they are --a CS outlet for you to buy items from ITT and L3, and to handle warranty issues should they arise. I'd venture to say they're all knowledgeable, it's just how they apply that knowledge that separates them in this industry.
ITT or L3, OMNI8 hand select? Flip a coin unless you really wanna attach it to that 6.8, then it's L3 I guess. Want factory spec sheets on the entire build plus the tightest contract specs? ITT OMNI7 hand select. Best bang for buck? Hand select model built by a reputable dealer (you can actually come out with a better unit than the factory one I have this way if you don't mind waiting for super high numbers on the spec sheet). It's really that simple at the end of the day, but dealers don't want you to know that because then you'll simply seek out the lowest price (and best CS if you are wise).
Which dealer? Call around. You decide. It's obvious who I like.
I did a lot of research and got a lot of correspondence. I've got one email that'd certainly weed one of these dealers out for good --permanently. It was a private correspondence so I won't publish it (and you're damn lucky I don't). I'd likely get banned for doing it anyway. Some will say ANYTHING to make the sale. NV market is like a shark tank, and I'll explain why:
Here's the skinny, and if anyone denies this, fuck 'em, they're just trying to sell you on something.
ITT and L3 and all (most, technically) the major NODs dealers are in the same neighborhood. Search "night vision" and just look at the map. The difference between L3 and ITT are essentially the thickness of the film in the tube, which is just a few atoms wide, and a few atoms width between the two. Additionally, you can still find OMNI7 ITT models and ITT factory shit is made in their ISO cleanroom facility (this was as selling point for me). They consider the entire unit whereas I think L3 only considers the tube and will allow the device to be assembled by another party. This isn't exactly a bad thing though, just a difference worth noting since you're researching. An ITT factory model will not only come with the spec sheet on the tube, but it'll come with the factory build sheet for the entire unit --ITT is the only one that does this. Your biggest concern is to get a hand select model (tube to be exact) --regardless of who you deal with. It'll come with the factory spec sheet on the tube itself, just not the entire device (which again, isn't THAT big of a deal). You'll be sold on milspec shit "SF uses these!" but I got Strykervet spec shit and it'll best any 14 I could find issued to a ground unit on Ft. Lewis. That was one of my stipulations on the sale and I got that in writing. Yeah, I was a hard sale. Oh, OMNI7 is stricter than OMNI8, they changed the specs because too many got rejected. So technically speaking, and in my own opinion, the best there is would be the hand select ITT OMNI7 factory build. Also in my opinion, I'd opt against the complete "kit" and get the NODs and padded case and get your own mounts and such. You can do better than the rhino, J-arm/bayonet mount and skullcrusher, that shit's a waste of money IMO, and the issue case is worthless if you actually value the NODs.
It really comes down to the dealer then, since there are two manufacturers that make nearly the exact same shit to the exact same specs, only in different grades and with different accessories. Hence the hand select deal. If your dealer won't work with you on YOU picking out the numbers then they're not the best dealer, that's a fact. Additionally, the hand select device shouldn't cost hundreds more from dealer to dealer and milspec from dealer A should never cost more than hand select from dealer B for the same item for obvious reasons. "But they're what SF gets issued and do I really want anything less?" I've heard even worse than that too. CS should be stellar, because at the end of the day, that's essentially all they are --a CS outlet for you to buy items from ITT and L3, and to handle warranty issues should they arise. I'd venture to say they're all knowledgeable, it's just how they apply that knowledge that separates them in this industry.
ITT or L3, OMNI8 hand select? Flip a coin unless you really wanna attach it to that 6.8, then it's L3 I guess. Want factory spec sheets on the entire build plus the tightest contract specs? ITT OMNI7 hand select. Best bang for buck? Hand select model built by a reputable dealer (you can actually come out with a better unit than the factory one I have this way if you don't mind waiting for super high numbers on the spec sheet). It's really that simple at the end of the day, but dealers don't want you to know that because then you'll simply seek out the lowest price (and best CS if you are wise).
Which dealer? Call around. You decide. It's obvious who I like.
Haha, I sell night vision and I would have to agree. But anyways, I have a great deal on a pre-owned PVS-14 if you are interested. Bad credit OK! 93% interest ARP, terms and restrictions apply. Other details may be presented at time of signing.
I have both, L-3 with snr 34 and pinnacle with snr 29 ... pinnacle is significantly brighter, L-3 is significantly clearer. Also L-3 will see better into shadows on darkest nights. I look at it as a trade off between brightness and clarity. With the 3x slip on (or screw on) magnifier on the L-3 on the helmet I can see an amazingly clear view out 300-600yds, this is a good companion to a thermal on an observation exercise. I have the pinnacle on my right, dominant eye and feel better about driving the buggy, with both on and with the pinnacle on the right eye. I like having one of each .
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