Rifle Scopes Which S&B 3-20X50 Ultra Short reticle for hunting and which turret

[SwissHunter]

Hello all,
I am new to this forum and to long range shooting. Was mainly shooting up to 300 meters so far. Now I am having (from time to time) access to longer ranges up to a mile. Which is why I want to get into long range target shooting.
Currently I am using a Meopta 3-12X56 hunting scope with a German No 4 reticle. Which is a good scope for hunting as my hunting is 95% in the 50 – 150 yard range in the woods.
This scope I want to replace with a Schmidt & Bender 3-20X50 Ultra Short. I want the lower 3X power range because my hunting is often at short distance of around 50 yards.
I was already using the search function and learned a lot but still have some open questions.

Question 1: For those of you who have a S&B 3-20X50 US, is there any tunneling at 3X? I read somewhere on the net that there is not. Just would like to confirm. Cause I cannot look through one, will have to order the one I want and that is it (I am living in Switzerland).

Question 2: Which reticle to choose? From the data sheets I like the H2CMR a lot and I also like that lots of it illuminates. However, how visible is the H2CMR at 3X power setting with illumination OFF??
I sometimes hunt abroad and a lot of time, effort, and money is going into the hunt. Of course I will always have spare batteries with me. But we all know batteries don’t fail when you are waiting five days in the cold windy spot with no animal in sight. They fail after those five days of waiting in the last minute of your hunting trip when that buck pops out his head 50 yards in front of you and is looking at you, giving you just enough time for a well aimed shot, but definitely not giving you time to change your batteries.. I am sure you all get what I am trying to say.. So I need a reticle which is fun to shoot at long distance but is usable with illumination off at 3X power.
Would the MSR reticle be a better solution? Or perhaps the new LRR-Mil reticle, it seems the 9 and 3 o’clock lines are quite thick and would give a good natural aiming line at 3X?
Any info and experience is highly welcome! My head is already very much set on the scope but not on the reticle.

Question 3: The S&B 3-20X50 US can be had with a 35 Mil or a 27 Mil elevation turret. Both are DT MTC LT. Both are the same price. Both I have to order and wait for it. Why would anyone get the 27 Mil over the 35 Mil? What am I not seeing? Are the clicks a tiny bit further apart perhaps and easier to dial?
The scope will initially go on a .308 bolt gun. Together with my very limited long range experience 27 Mil would definitely be more than enough. However, I plan on keeping that scope for a long time and it will surely later go to different rifles and better to have 35 Mil and not need it than the other way around. Especially for the same price. Again.. what am I missing?

Thank you all very much! I really appreciate your help!

 

[Wyfox]

I have one on a hunting rifle. I chose the MSR reticle, it's very usable at 3x(looks like a duplex reticle at 3x) There is no tunneling on the 3-20.

The H2CMR is pretty thin and at 3x I dont think you'll be able to pick it up in lower light brushy type environment.

I would opt for the 27 mil which would give you more spacing in between each click. I have the 35 mil, the clicks are very close together making it easy to over turn your desired setting especially .1 or .2 mils past the MTC function.

 

[OH58DViper]

I use the H2CMR and at 3x it’s a small + sign. It’s essentially an Eotech like reticle at 3 power. It’s not an issue and if you keep the brightness to the minimum of what you need it’s more than enough with the light gathering properties of the S&B. I mean if you’re at 3x you can damn near smell a rutting buck ha.

Like wyfox said go with 27 mils. More space is better for lowlight conditions and makes it easier to use the MTC turrets. Do you plan on needing 35 mils? My 28 Nosler will do 2400 yards with 27 mils....if all 27 are available that is.

.

 

[mcharb007]

I had the 27mil model and now have the 35mil model. To me I could not tell a difference in difficulty dialing the elevation turret. They both felt pretty much the same to me. To be fair I only had the 27mil model for about 2 weeks though.

 

[VegasHKShooter]

I have the 3-20 PMII NOT the US. Want to say upfront that I haven’t shot the US, so I don’t know HOW different they are. That said, between my 5-25 PMII and my 3-20 PMII, I LOVE my 3-20. Mine does not tunnel at 3x. I’m running the H2CMR reticle on my 3-20, and the Gen 2 XR on my 5-25. I really like the H2CMR for what I do with it, which is long range on my gasser (GA Precision GAP-10. The reticle is rather thin though. With the illumination on, you’re going to be fine, but you make a good point about your illumination concerns. I don’t know if the reticle would be too thin in the brush w/o the illumination on. I like the reticle, specifically because it’s thin, and has .2 mil lines for holding accurate wind holds when I don’t dial wind. That may be a detriment in a hunting situation. Again, with the illumination on, I think you’d be gtg, but the very thing I like about it, MIGHT be a shortcoming for your application. I believe the MSR is a bit thicker reticle. The H2CMR is my favorite reticle for what I do, but want to point out what COULD be an issue for your application.

 

[drglock]

I don’t own a US but I do use a 5-25 PM ii that I use mostly for hunting. Mine has the P4F reticle and I really like it for hunting. With that said I’d really like to look through a scope with the Gen 2 XR for hunting use.

 

[OH58DViper]

caveat to in regards to reticle thickness....it appears thin in a lower power setting and without illumination on. Turn the illumination on and it’s nice at low power, crank it to 20x and it’s actually a pretty fat reticle. If memory serves, its .1 Mil thick compared to say the SKMR3 which is .036. Reticle thickness is subjective to the eye of the shooter. I don’t particularly care for my H2CMR for Precision paper punching but it’s legit for a hunting/steel banging rig. My only complaint is the thickness if you’re trying to group at 100 or 200 for accuracy.

Pick the reticle that is more pleasing to your eye. I asked Frank about it once and that was essentially the advice he gave me.

 

[Baron26]

I’m kinda partial to the Klein reticle. A little simpler for hunting, but there is a tradeoff for PRS.

 

[CBDR]

The 5 x 20 ultra short MSR was my choice. Two comments on the reticle. One the low end of the magnification is not to small for your hunt. Two, the illumination level of brightness is VERY mild compared to other optics you may have used. The MTC turret clicks are extremely close together, but it is without a doubt one serious piece of gear. I was told this optic would be overkill for my application on a bolt action 308. It is a match made in heaven. 100% hunting rig.

 

[SwissHunter]

Thank you all very much for your feedback. I really appreciate it! This was very helpful to me!
I think I will go with the MSR reticle.
Regarding 27 or 35 Mil turret I have not made up my mind yet fully. It seems to me that based on the feedback here and elsewhere that with the MTC it is anyways quite difficult to click .1 or .2 past the full Mils with the MTC. So I guess it will also come down a bit to availability between the two. As I mentioned, I don't need 35 Mils.. yet.. but who knows what the future brings..
So thanks a gain everyone. I will let you know what I ordered, once I placed the order in the new year.

 

[B-P-UU]

The 5 x 20 ultra short MSR was my choice. Two comments on the reticle. One the low end of the magnification is not to small for your hunt. Two, the illumination level of brightness is VERY mild compared to other optics you may have used. The MTC turret clicks are extremely close together, but it is without a doubt one serious piece of gear. I was told this optic would be overkill for my application on a bolt action 308. It is a match made in heaven. 100% hunting rig.

I'm not seeing MSR as an option for the 5-20 US on their website... was it discontinued?

 

[steve123]

Don't get caught up in the thinking that you'll even need to use 3x and it's super wide FOV. At 4x for instance you can see the reticle much better compared to 3x and the FOV is only slightly smaller. If you do feel like 3x is needed at the time it's most likely with such a close shot you won't miss anyway.

4x was "the" magnification to have here in the US for many years on much lesser quality scopes and there must have been millions of animals taken at that mag and a high percentage at less than 100Y, although in a SFP.

I have a 3-20x50 and it's only been on 3x on a few occasions just to see what 3x looks like, lol.

 

[lancetkenyon]

I have both a 3-20×50 (non-US) & 5-25×56, both w. H2CMR. The 5-25 is very visible @ 5x, even without illumination. The reticle is thinner than in the 3-20.
Olson the 3-20, the H2CMR is very fine on 3x. Visible, but I could see it getting lost in low light/tangled woods until you get to 5x without illumination. With illumination, it is like an illuminated fine x-hair. Even in daylight hours. Very visible. Subtensions become usable at about 8-9x. Absolutely no tunneling, and seems clearer on 20x than my 5-25 on 20x. Plenty of magnification for shots well beyond 1500 yards. Much farther than I would hunt with my 7RM except maybe coyotes. I have the 35mil turret too. No issues.