Rifle Scopes Which S&B Reticle?

[Money Waster]

Europtic has S&B PMIIs on sale at a very attractive price. I think that I’ll grab one. However, I’m not sure which of the two reticles available would suite me better. I don’t shoot PRS, although I’d like to at some point. Right now I just bang steel out to 1000. Will I someday need to range with the reticle? Eh, probably not much of at all.

The available reticles are the P4LF and the MSR1. Which would you go with and why?

 

[GBMaryland]

I like the MSR... of those two for sure

 

[Money Waster]

I like the MSR... of those two for sure

Thanks for the response. Why do you like it over the P4LF?

 

[Money Waster]

The MSR does give you .5 mil indication out from the cross with a color change which is appealing. Although, I don’t know if that is only the case under illumination.

 

[Widowmaker0001]

They are pretty similar so its up to you if you want the extra ranging tools in the reticle or not.

-Reagan

 

[Money Waster]

They are pretty similar so its up to you if you want the extra ranging tools in the reticle or not.

-Reagan

That was my thought as well. I just don’t need a ranging function for the kind of shooting that I currently do. It would save me a couple hundred going with the P4LF. I was hoping to hear from others who have either of these reticles and had a strong opinion one way or the other.

 

[Widowmaker0001]

That was my thought as well. I just don’t need a ranging function for the kind of shooting that I currently do. It would save me a couple hundred going with the P4LF. I was hoping to hear from others who have either of these reticles and had a strong opinion one way or the other.

I think for how similar they are you can just pick based on what youd rather like to see/use in a reticle.

-Reagan

 

[Heretoimproveforhunting]

i dont have the p4f fresh in my mind. do you like to hold wind or disl for wind. if theres a difference between the two reticles in terms of graduations for wind, and you like to hold, it may make sense to go with the one with finer graduations.

its been too long since ivehad a p4f. ive got 3 with an msr and one with an h2 and a h59 at moment. also had a lrr. i prefer the msr and h2cmr, but thats because of graduations and also a preference for a solid crosshair. i dont shoot as well with open centers or dots. but just pyschological.

 

[Alpine 338]

The P4LF is a good reticle. However, it needs a hash mark in the first .5 mil from the center for wind holds.

In my mind th MSR is the perfect reticle for me. I've used it in PRS/NRL matches, ELR matches, etc.

 

[TangoSierra916]

line thickness is a difference too, the MSR sits between the P4 and P4 fine and is a very nice thickness at distance and up close, IMO.

Finnaccuracy has some great data/write-ups on the reticle thats super helpful too.

 

[Money Waster]

i dont have the p4f fresh in my mind. do you like to hold wind or disl for wind. if theres a difference between the two reticles in terms of graduations for wind, and you like to hold, it may make sense to go with the one with finer graduations.

its been too long since ivehad a p4f. ive got 3 with an msr and one with an h2 and a h59 at moment. also had a lrr. i prefer the msr and h2cmr, but thats because of graduations and also a preference for a solid crosshair. i dont shoot as well with open centers or dots. but just pyschological.

I prefer to hold wind.

 

[Money Waster]

line thickness is a difference too, the MSR sits between the P4 and P4 fine and is a very nice thickness at distance and up close, IMO.

Finnaccuracy has some great data/write-ups on the reticle thats super helpful too.

Thos is exactly the kind of information I was hoping to get. I appreciate it.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I only glanced at the pricing and once I saw the reticles tuned it out.

Make sure you really like the reticles enough you were considering them before and then the sale came up. If the sale is what is driving you to those reticles, I’d probably shy away. That never goes well.

Again, if you truly like the reticles, go for it. Otherwise there are tons of better reticles at that price point.

 

[Money Waster]

I only glanced at the pricing and once I saw the reticles tuned it out.

Make sure you really like the reticles enough you were considering them before and then the sale came up. If the sale is what is driving you to those reticles, I’d probably shy away. That never goes well.

Again, if you truly like the reticles, go for it. Otherwise there are tons of better reticles at that price point.

Honestly, the scope would primarily be used for load development. I have two USO LR 17s with the tree reticle that I like quite a bit. If I ever decided to do PRS, I’d host use one of the USOs. I also have a Vudoo V22 that could use higher magnification on small targets at 100. I would use it for that also.

 

[Money Waster]

I only glanced at the pricing and once I saw the reticles tuned it out.

Make sure you really like the reticles enough you were considering them before and then the sale came up. If the sale is what is driving you to those reticles, I’d probably shy away. That never goes well.

Again, if you truly like the reticles, go for it. Otherwise there are tons of better reticles at that price point.

I hear what you’re saying though. I also want to build a dedicated ground squirrel rig at some point and it would work for that also. So, it’s not like it would forever be dedicated to shooting steel.

 

[OG10]

I have both I like the p4f for paper and steel, use the msr for hunting.Only you can decide wich is best for your usages, p4f is definitely thinner, both of mine although different work for their intended use.

 

[Money Waster]

I have both I like the p4f for paper and steel, use the msr for hunting.Only you can decide wich is best for your usages, p4f is definitely thinner, both of mine although different work for their intended use.

This is helpful as paper and steel, and perhaps colony rodents, will be the primary use.

 

[Money Waster]

I only glanced at the pricing and once I saw the reticles tuned it out.

Make sure you really like the reticles enough you were considering them before and then the sale came up. If the sale is what is driving you to those reticles, I’d probably shy away. That never goes well.

Again, if you truly like the reticles, go for it. Otherwise there are tons of better reticles at that price point.

Dthomas......what alternatives at that price point would you recommend?

 

[Heretoimproveforhunting]

OP - which model s&b are you looking at? 5-20 US, 5-25 etc?

 

[Money Waster]

PMII 5-25

 

[Heretoimproveforhunting]

glass on a 5-25 is hard to beat. i had a msr in one. sold it only because i wanted another ultra short with same reticle. but clarity on 5-25 at mid and high ranges is impressive

ive had nf - still have two. but imho i prefer the s&b glass. dont like the rotating ocular on the nf.

no experience with zco, tt personally.

 

[Heretoimproveforhunting]

meant to add - 5-25 is a sizeable scope. for shooting at ranges great. carrying all over to hunt - thats what got me to move down to the ultra short lines. i do have a 3-27 on an axmc for my mag calibers

 

[Money Waster]

meant to add - 5-25 is a sizeable scope. for shooting at ranges great. carrying all over to hunt - thats what got me to move down to the ultra short lines. i do have a 3-27 on an axmc for my mag calibers

I have no desire to mount this scope on a hunting rifle, so that’s not an issue.

 

[Money Waster]

I’ll tell you what guys, I think I’m going to go with the P4LF reticle. This scope won’t be the end all be all tactical scope. Like I said, I have a need for higher magnification than my USO LR17 for load development and banging steel, and potentially for my Vudoo on small targets. What I want is something with high quality glass that tracks and is durable. I’m not going to be lugging this thing around hunting, so the size and weight aren’t a concern. I can learn to dial windage I suppose. I don’t compete so clock time is not a consideration. I appreciate everyone’s shared info. It was helpful.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

S&B reticles leave ALOT to be desired. I think you can get a better scope with a modern reticle around the same price. For a little more you can get a ZP5 with MR4 and for a little less an AMG or Gen 2 with a great reticle.

 

[jwrabbit123]

HI I own 2 SB scopes and one is the P4LF in a 5x25 , and I own a 5-45 with the Tremor 3 , I can tell you , I like the P4FL , I have a lot more time behind the PF4 reticle . and I don't get distracted with the Reticle , I would OPT to save money and buy the PF4L , unless you are skilled in the Horus reticles and like them , I actually also have a USO with the H-102 , I feel a bit more comfortable with the H-102 then the T3 , , to be honest , I have not tried the LRR or other PM2 reticles , Hope this helps , cant go wrong with a clean reticle , what I can say about the 5x25 it is a good scope , it has some drawbacks like on 5x to about 7x it tunnels , where as thee 5-45 scope they did fix this issue , I like the Pm2 scopes they have been a good optic for me ,
LOU

 

[Krob95]

I’ll tell you what guys, I think I’m going to go with the P4LF reticle. This scope won’t be the end all be all tactical scope. Like I said, I have a need for higher magnification than my USO LR17 for load development and banging steel, and potentially for my Vudoo on small targets. What I want is something with high quality glass that tracks and is durable. I’m not going to be lugging this thing around hunting, so the size and weight aren’t a concern. I can learn to dial windage I suppose. I don’t compete so clock time is not a consideration. I appreciate everyone’s shared info. It was helpful.

I run a Schmidt and bender 5-25 on my vudoo and it’s perfect for banging steel at 200 yards. Granted it has the h2cmr reticle in it but my other Schmidt and Bender 5-25 I have has the P4LF reticle. Running that on my 6BR and it does exactly what I want and holding wind isn’t too bad with it at distance. Learn the sub tensions of the reticle and you’ll be fine.

 

[thehun]

All my S&B are P4F...I like the simplicity of it...allows me to range 100-1000m easily...uncluttered...

The MSR is a solid choice as well...P4F and the MSR are my two favs...I am not much into Horus reticles...

 

[Money Waster]

HI I own 2 SB scopes and one is the P4LF in a 5x25 , and I own a 5-45 with the Tremor 3 , I can tell you , I like the P4FL , I have a lot more time behind the PF4 reticle . and I don't get distracted with the Reticle , I would OPT to save money and buy the PF4L , unless you are skilled in the Horus reticles and like them , I actually also have a USO with the H-102 , I feel a bit more comfortable with the H-102 then the T3 , , to be honest , I have not tried the LRR or other PM2 reticles , Hope this helps , cant go wrong with a clean reticle , what I can say about the 5x25 it is a good scope , it has some drawbacks like on 5x to about 7x it tunnels , where as thee 5-45 scope they did fix this issue , I like the Pm2 scopes they have been a good optic for me ,
LOU

Thanks Lou, from one Lou to another. I’m going to go with the P4LF. Now I just need to find rings. I have the scope in my cart, but I can’t find rings on Europtic. My USO is in Seekins 1.45” rings, and the 44 mm objective clears my XLR Carbon chassis handguard by 1/16”. I need something higher if I want to mount it on my V22.

Lou

 

[Krob95]

Thanks Lou, from one Lou to another. I’m going to go with the P4LF. Now I just need to find rings. I have the scope in my cart, but I can’t find rings on Europtic. My USO is in Seekins 1.45” rings, and the 44 mm objective clears my XLR Carbon chassis handguard by 1/16”. I need something higher if I want to mount it on my V22.

Lou

I would look at the something 1.5” or so for rings or mounts. I run spuhr 4002s (1.5”) on both my vudoo and impact as they’re both in AX chassis’s and have plenty of room between the objective with the caps and the top of the enclosed forend.

 

[Money Waster]

I would look at the something 1.5” or so for rings or mounts. I run spuhr 4002s (1.5”) on both my vudoo and impact as they’re both in AX chassis’s and have plenty of room between the objective with the caps and the top of the enclosed forend.

Yep, 1.5” would do it. I don’t want to spend that much though. Don’t get me wrong, the Sphur mounts are awesome. I just need to draw the line at some point. Something in the $150-$200 range would be ideal.

 

[jwrabbit123]

Hi I have both of my pm2 rings in Larue QD mounts , They hold poi plus sometimes I rotate scopes and it make it alot easier I agree 1.5 inch is best , you can buy the can mount from larue new for $140 or buy the other models used for around $150 +- LOU , here is images of the La rue mounts on my 2 SB scopes , If you dont want a Qd mount and want rings , I like these for a light weight ring they are steiner T series they also come in different heights and sizes , but for about same price point I like the larue Mounts better , I have just got 1 Bobro mount I am trying it is also a QD style , If you want a heavy duty mount I like the Barret xrings which have 15/40 moa , But if you want to keep the weight down these are not it as mine weigh almost 15.2 ounces
LOU



steiner

Larue 104 mount

larue can mount

larue LT-104

 

[Money Waster]

Hi I have both of my pm2 rings in Larue QD mounts , They hold poi plus sometimes I rotate scopes and it make it alot easier I agree 1.5 inch is best , you can buy the can mount from larue new for $140 or buy the other models used for around $150 +- LOU , here is images of the La rue mounts on my 2 SB scopes , If you dont want a Qd mount and want rings , I like these for a light weight ring they are steiner T series they also come in different heights and sizes , but for about same price point I like the larue Mounts better , I have just got 1 Bobro mount I am trying it is also a QD style , If you want a heavy duty mount I like the Barret xrings which have 15/40 moa , But if you want to keep the weight down these are not it as mine weigh almost 15.2 ounces
LOU



steiner
View attachment 7315198

Larue 104 mount

View attachment 7315199



larue can mount
View attachment 7315200




larue LT-104
View attachment 7315202

Thanks Lou. I love the FX PCP. I’ve looked at that model and the Impact several times. One of theee days I’ll get one.

Lou

 

[jwrabbit123]

Hi accually one gun is an edgun and the other is a Taipan veteran PCP . Pretty much locked down here so I can shoot these in my Yard , this is How I keep my dialing skills sharp , I have hargets all over here out to around 250 yd , which most Pcps I got will group sub MOA with swaged and casted ammo I make .
But I can pop on my SB on these and shoot here , and when virus is over I can go shooting powder burners again , I do use .22 to 30 cal here .

 

[Money Waster]

Hi accually one gun is an edgun and the other is a Taipan veteran PCP . Pretty much locked down here so I can shoot these in my Yard , this is How I keep my dialing skills sharp , I have hargets all over here out to around 250 yd , which most Pcps I got will group sub MOA with swaged and casted ammo I make .
But I can pop on my SB on these and shoot here , and when virus is over I can go shooting powder burners again , I do use .22 to 30 cal here .

Yep, wrong gun, but still nice. I really want a couple nice PCPs. It would be yet another platform to mount the S&B lol.

Lou

 

[jwrabbit123]

Yea nothing like being able to shoot in back yard , After virus lifts I am really going to make a move out west , and buy a bigger property whee land and taxes are cheaper then Ct , My Dream is to build like a 1500 yrd shooting range , Last yr I went across country and I got married in LV and we visited a friend who owns Hunters Supply , he makes lead slugs for powder burners and pcp big bores and it was my dream property , a 1200 yrd shooting range , and you can see for mils in open range , Here in CT we have alot of woods and visibility is limited and so is Open land which isnt built on , I also have a USO and I believe you will love the SB . are you looking at the 5-25 model ? when I got mine years ago I got that one for around same price point $2300 and yes it is well worth it .
LOU

 

[Money Waster]

Yea nothing like being able to shoot in back yard , After virus lifts I am really going to make a move out west , and buy a bigger property whee land and taxes are cheaper then Ct , My Dream is to build like a 1500 yrd shooting range , Last yr I went across country and I got married in LV and we visited a friend who owns Hunters Supply , he makes lead slugs for powder burners and pcp big bores and it was my dream property , a 1200 yrd shooting range , and you can see for mils in open range , Here in CT we have alot of woods and visibility is limited and so is Open land which isnt built on , I also have a USO and I believe you will love the SB . are you looking at the 5-25 model ? when I got mine years ago I got that one for around same price point $2300 and yes it is well worth it .
LOU

I grew up in western Pennsylvania myself, so I know what it’s like to be surrounded by trees. I live in Northwest Nevada now and love it. No income tax is nice, although the cost of housing it a bit outrageous compared to a lot of places......thanks Tesla. Anyway, there are a fair amount of places to shoot here on BLM property. Nothing beats your back yard though. That’s priceless.

Lou

 

[Money Waster]

Yea nothing like being able to shoot in back yard , After virus lifts I am really going to make a move out west , and buy a bigger property whee land and taxes are cheaper then Ct , My Dream is to build like a 1500 yrd shooting range , Last yr I went across country and I got married in LV and we visited a friend who owns Hunters Supply , he makes lead slugs for powder burners and pcp big bores and it was my dream property , a 1200 yrd shooting range , and you can see for mils in open range , Here in CT we have alot of woods and visibility is limited and so is Open land which isnt built on , I also have a USO and I believe you will love the SB . are you looking at the 5-25 model ? when I got mine years ago I got that one for around same price point $2300 and yes it is well worth it .
LOU

Lou.....a little off topic. What compressor do you use for your PCPs? I’d like to get a FX Impact at some point to go with my Air Force Talon PCP rifle. I currently use a Hill pump to fill the reservoir, but that sucks. I’d like to get a compressor and wonder if some of the lower dollar units are usable. What do you use?

Lou

 

[Money Waster]

I pulled the trigger on the S&B PMII 5-25 with the P4LF reticle and placed the order. I’m pretty excited about it. I always wanted a S&B PMII. I’m sure I’ll like it.

Lou

 

[jwrabbit123]

nice you will love it , which mount did you get ???


ok air compressors , I bought a china unit and it broke more then it worked so I gave it away , I have an automotive shop so I got an altaros 300 bar booster it works fine but was slow , I then , bit the bone and bought a commercial dive shot compressor Called Air-Tex 4500 about 3 years ago and I use it 3 or4x a week , I shoot alot being retired now , and I never had 1 Issue again it fills a big 90cuft bottle from 2500psi to 4500 psi in like 10 minutes , where as china one took like 4 hours and the booster takes like 8 hours and you also need a pancake compressor for booster , while it worked and was cheap it took too long for me. this is airtex ,for me it was worth it I shoot alot and if I went to a dive shop it is 10 bucks a fill and it only filled to 4250 psi so some guns use a full 300 bar now . here is mine

https://www.airetex.com/paintball.php

LOU

 

[Money Waster]

nice you will love it , which mount did you get ???


ok air compressors , I bought a china unit and it broke more then it worked so I gave it away , I have an automotive shop so I got an altaros 300 bar booster it works fine but was slow , I then , bit the bone and bought a commercial dive shot compressor Called Air-Tex 4500 about 3 years ago and I use it 3 or4x a week , I shoot alot being retired now , and I never had 1 Issue again it fills a big 90cuft bottle from 2500psi to 4500 psi in like 10 minutes , where as china one took like 4 hours and the booster takes like 8 hours and you also need a pancake compressor for booster , while it worked and was cheap it took too long for me. this is airtex ,for me it was worth it I shoot alot and if I went to a dive shop it is 10 bucks a fill and it only filled to 4250 psi so some guns use a full 300 bar now . here is mine

https://www.airetex.com/paintball.php

LOU

Thanks for the compressor info Lou. I will look into the model that you use.

Regarding the mount.....I didn’t order one. I really want to use the Seekins rings as that is what I use on all my scopes. They’re a nice compromise between build quality, esthetics and price. They didn’t have a model that would give me the elevation that I needed to clear the XLR Carbon chassis handguard. My thought is that I’ll get the XLR Envy chassis and choose a Seekins ring based on that need. I run either HV or M24 contours on my rifles, and I’ll select a ring based off of that need. I just couldn’t bring myself to drop $400+ on the Sphur mount, and I didn’t love the LaRue mounts. I think that my money is better spent with a new chassis and a cheaper ring. I’ll mount my .223 precision rig in the Carbon chassis and move my V22 to the new Envy chassis. I think that is the best compromise for my situation.

Lou

 

[Quarter Horse]

Take a look at the new Burris Signature XTR rings. The tall set is 1.5". They allow 5-40MOA cant adjustment using inserts. Some users have problems getting inserts aligned properly. If you use rosin when you place the inserts it gets a lot easier. Just dust the surfaces with rosin on a Q-Tip.

 

[GIXXER2000]

I have 3 S&B's I have the Tremor 2, T3 and the H59. I like the H 59 the best of the 3.

 

[Mute]

Reticle choice is one of those things you should really decide for yourself. I love the MSR (which I'm currently using). If I were to get a new S&B scope, I'd go with either an MSR2 or LRR-Mil reticle.

 

[Money Waster]

Reticle choice is one of those things you should really decide for yourself. I love the MSR (which I'm currently using). If I were to get a new S&B scope, I'd go with either an MSR2 or LRR-Mil reticle.

The horse is out of the barn at this point. I bought the P4LF reticle model. Like I said previously, this scope will be allocated to load development, ground squirrels or prone shooting at steel without a time clock. For those purposes I’m sure the reticle will be fine. If I ever decide to do PRS/NRL, I’ll either use my USOs or get a ZCO. I’m pleased with what I purchased considering the uses.

Lou

 

[Mute]

The horse is out of the barn at this point. I bought the P4LF reticle model. Like I said previously, this scope will be allocated to load development, ground squirrels or prone shooting at steel without a time clock. For those purposes I’m sure the reticle will be fine. If I ever decide to do PRS/NRL, I’ll either use my USOs or get a ZCO. I’m pleased with what I purchased considering the uses.

Lou

I think you made a fine choice and will be quite happy. Have fun.

 

[jay6ird]

Maybe this mount will work for you. go to europtic and search on AWP-8110-34CM110

https://www.eurooptic.com/modular-d...moa-black-csass-version-awp-8110-34cm110.aspx

 

[Money Waster]

Maybe this mount will work for you. go to europtic and search on AWP-8110-34CM110

https://www.eurooptic.com/modular-d...moa-black-csass-version-awp-8110-34cm110.aspx

Yes, that would work nicely. Thank you!

 

[jarredsc]

The msr reticle is quite a nice reticle will be my only choice if I had to go S&B