I don't understand why you can't just make copies of your FFL to give to customers? Why make it so hard to get a transfer through your store..?
Seriously..
Seriously..
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Why are gunshops such B****es..?
- Thread starter LSUbeatUby40
- Start date
Re: Why are gunshops such B****es..?
LOL, are you just venting or do you really want to have a constructive conversation as to why?
LOL, are you just venting or do you really want to have a constructive conversation as to why?
Re: Why are gunshops such B****es..?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DebosDave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, are you just venting or do you really want to have a constructive conversation as to why? </div></div>
Just venting..
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DebosDave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL, are you just venting or do you really want to have a constructive conversation as to why? </div></div>
Just venting..
Re: Why are gunshops such B****es..?
1. With a signed copy of an FFL, a person can aquire a firearm without doing any 4473 paperwork. This has been done by somewhat unscrupulous individuals to obtain firearms without knowledge of the FFL they were using. The selling FFL logs it into their books, but the "receiving" FFL has no knowledge of the firearm.
2. For $25 transfer, they are likely less than willing to put all of their personal liablity into your hands. While you may be a salt of the earth guy, it only takes getting screwed once, and sometimes you don't even have to be the guy who got screwed to learn the lesson. Most FFL holders rely heavily on the business conducted through the use of that license, so a $25 transfer isn't worth losing that over.
I have personally seen a case where a 'handed out' FFL was used as described in #1. I have heard many more stories that would make any FFL wary to give their license to anyone. For some reason the ATF wants to hold the license holder accountable instead of just whomever they hand their license out to, go figure??
1. With a signed copy of an FFL, a person can aquire a firearm without doing any 4473 paperwork. This has been done by somewhat unscrupulous individuals to obtain firearms without knowledge of the FFL they were using. The selling FFL logs it into their books, but the "receiving" FFL has no knowledge of the firearm.
2. For $25 transfer, they are likely less than willing to put all of their personal liablity into your hands. While you may be a salt of the earth guy, it only takes getting screwed once, and sometimes you don't even have to be the guy who got screwed to learn the lesson. Most FFL holders rely heavily on the business conducted through the use of that license, so a $25 transfer isn't worth losing that over.
I have personally seen a case where a 'handed out' FFL was used as described in #1. I have heard many more stories that would make any FFL wary to give their license to anyone. For some reason the ATF wants to hold the license holder accountable instead of just whomever they hand their license out to, go figure??
Re: Why are gunshops such B****es..?
All that said, there are ways to mark the FFL so that it can only be used in a single transaction, but I don't know what is wrong with the FFL sending it for you? What reason did the Gunsmith give you?
I am sure there are other reasons out there, but I think it just comes down to that particular FFL holders comfort level. I have dealt with a guy who had a copy of his FFL's license, and he was able to fax it out as he wanted... I have seen others that are marked to high hell... Not for any use but transfer for S/N and Name...
I think a lot of it might come down to the relationship between the customer and the FFL holder too...
All that said, there are ways to mark the FFL so that it can only be used in a single transaction, but I don't know what is wrong with the FFL sending it for you? What reason did the Gunsmith give you?
I am sure there are other reasons out there, but I think it just comes down to that particular FFL holders comfort level. I have dealt with a guy who had a copy of his FFL's license, and he was able to fax it out as he wanted... I have seen others that are marked to high hell... Not for any use but transfer for S/N and Name...
I think a lot of it might come down to the relationship between the customer and the FFL holder too...
Re: Why are gunshops such B****es..?
He didn't give me a reason.. He just said we don't do that.. My thing is I would like the FFL to be mailed with the USPS Money Orders.. thats my only problem..
He didn't give me a reason.. He just said we don't do that.. My thing is I would like the FFL to be mailed with the USPS Money Orders.. thats my only problem..
Re: Why are gunshops such B****es..?
Just a suggestion, you might see if he will mail it all for you, just bring him in a post paid envelope with the Money Order all ready to go and let him send it out with his mail? Maybe that will resolve the problem? Like I said some dealers are more sensitive than others, if you like the dealer, you could explore the reasons further...
Just a suggestion, you might see if he will mail it all for you, just bring him in a post paid envelope with the Money Order all ready to go and let him send it out with his mail? Maybe that will resolve the problem? Like I said some dealers are more sensitive than others, if you like the dealer, you could explore the reasons further...
Re: Why are gunshops such B****es..?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DebosDave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just a suggestion, you might see if he will mail it all for you, just bring him in a post paid envelope with the Money Order all ready to go and let him send it out with his mail? Maybe that will resolve the problem? Like I said some dealers are more sensitive than others, if you like the dealer, you could explore the reasons further...
</div></div>
I'll try that..
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DebosDave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just a suggestion, you might see if he will mail it all for you, just bring him in a post paid envelope with the Money Order all ready to go and let him send it out with his mail? Maybe that will resolve the problem? Like I said some dealers are more sensitive than others, if you like the dealer, you could explore the reasons further...
</div></div>
I'll try that..
Re: Why are gunshops such B****es..?
Your dealer can also fax or email it to the other dealer.
My dealer has provided me a copy of his license for sellers before but it's got my name, item purchased, auction #, sellers name, etc. on the front of the copy. It would be obvious if someone tried to cover the info and misuse the copy.
When dealing with an individual, he just provides the portion they need for the ATF EZ check website and requires a copy of their driver's license. It gives the seller the shipping address etc. off the license same as if they had a copy.
Your dealer can also fax or email it to the other dealer.
My dealer has provided me a copy of his license for sellers before but it's got my name, item purchased, auction #, sellers name, etc. on the front of the copy. It would be obvious if someone tried to cover the info and misuse the copy.
When dealing with an individual, he just provides the portion they need for the ATF EZ check website and requires a copy of their driver's license. It gives the seller the shipping address etc. off the license same as if they had a copy.
Re: Why are gunshops such B****es..?
Its the modern era which means more folks have access to Email than FAX esp if buying from a private party. Scanned and Emailed FFL's are acceptable as well as FAX.
The money issue isnt a big deal to me. Back in the day my dad had an FFL so we could buy at dealer prices. Think they were good for 4 years but when he went to renew the rules had changed and the price went up. To me for the sake of saving what would only amount to less than the price of the licence and giving up any rights I have to restrict serches without a warrant its not worth it. Spo I'll let the gun store owner deal with that BS and gladly pay my 25 bucks to them.
Its the modern era which means more folks have access to Email than FAX esp if buying from a private party. Scanned and Emailed FFL's are acceptable as well as FAX.
The money issue isnt a big deal to me. Back in the day my dad had an FFL so we could buy at dealer prices. Think they were good for 4 years but when he went to renew the rules had changed and the price went up. To me for the sake of saving what would only amount to less than the price of the licence and giving up any rights I have to restrict serches without a warrant its not worth it. Spo I'll let the gun store owner deal with that BS and gladly pay my 25 bucks to them.
And depending on the person you talked to, employee, owner, age etc etc. If you tell me, I bought a gun on gunbroker, need the ffl, Ill ask you for the name of the person/gun store, verify the info and email or fax a copy. Takes 5 minutes, but if technology is not your strength or you are lazy or you don't have any incentive to help, like a disgruntal employee, they will give you the run around. Or they are just a*****s, and there is plenty. For us 20 bucks or 30 bucks is 20 bucks or 30 bucks, pluss you are helping a customer, when you buy a gun, you are like a kid, e new dream and then you hit a wall and they don't want to help with the transfer. I see customers faces when you give them the gun they won in gun broker, like a kid during Christmas.
I have a great dealer and have developed a good relationship with them, plus I buy a lot of guns. I’ve got a PDF of the FFL on my computer that the owner sent me and I just email it when I buy something and shoot them an email letting them know that something is showing up for me.
Not all dealers suck, but some do for sure.
Not all dealers suck, but some do for sure.
Dude I remember lurking and reading this thread in high school.
But to add to the thread, my FFL only talks to the other FFL. I say I am buying this, this is the other FFL's contact and he handles it from there.
But to add to the thread, my FFL only talks to the other FFL. I say I am buying this, this is the other FFL's contact and he handles it from there.
It would never cross my mind to ask a FFL to give me a copy of his license. That’s piece of paper is his livelihood. He has to guard it with his life, because there are some POS who will take advantage of him.
I went the other day to have my FFL send the paperwork for my John Hancock. He stood right there and did it. It was in PVA’s hands before I walked out the door.
I went the other day to have my FFL send the paperwork for my John Hancock. He stood right there and did it. It was in PVA’s hands before I walked out the door.
I have a copy of my LGS's license on my computer. When they renew they send me a copy of their new one. I've been doing it that way with the same guys for 20+ years now. I may have bought a firearm or two from them over the years...
I do only send it to FFL's I'm having send guns to my LGS. Why would I need to send it to anyone else buy another FFL?
I do only send it to FFL's I'm having send guns to my LGS. Why would I need to send it to anyone else buy another FFL?
- Feb 16, 2017
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I think at the time this thread was written there were only two genders, Bruce Jenner was still a man, and people all stood for our national anthem......seems like a different world now.
My $.02 on topic though, if you don’t like the FFL transfers, apply for your own FFL and then it’s free and you get wholesale prices on stuff.
My $.02 on topic though, if you don’t like the FFL transfers, apply for your own FFL and then it’s free and you get wholesale prices on stuff.
Most of the time I've not had any problems, but I have found more than enough fuddies that are afraid to do a laundry list of legal actions because they're convinced they're going to be charged with a felony and get fined $250,000 and lose their family business... Best to just walk away, but I've had a couple instances where I explicitly asked exactly what I intended to do before hand and they said they could/would, then backed out after I had stuff shipped to them... very fucking frustrating.
I thought you have to have a physical, brick & mortar store (that they can inspect) to get an FFL? I was under the impression that it wasn't supposed to be a home based business. But, what do I know? Nothing about selling guns. I only know about buying and shooting them!
If the transferer needs an FFL for the disposition, the have to ship to the address in the FFL.
I don't see how the FFL copy could be miss-used to get guns without the licensee knowing?
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I don't see how the FFL copy could be miss-used to get guns without the licensee knowing?
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My preferred FFL has a weird process. I purchase my toy, then I have to go into the shop, pay the fee first, then they will get in touch with the seller directly with their FFL.
I asked why they did this instead of just having me send their FFL to the seller. Their answer was to control / be aware/ be organized of all the incoming transfers, which makes sense. They told me they get on average 15-25 deliveries per day, which IMO is a lot for a small 2 man shop.
I asked why they did this instead of just having me send their FFL to the seller. Their answer was to control / be aware/ be organized of all the incoming transfers, which makes sense. They told me they get on average 15-25 deliveries per day, which IMO is a lot for a small 2 man shop.
Not gonna lie. I don't even remember starting this thread, but I am sure it had something to do with Jims' Firearms in Baton Rouge. Being a young fellow from New Orleans, my local dealer always just handed me a paper copy of their FFL and I had stuff sent over there. When I got to BR, my first experience was a blanket "no we don't do that" and at the time seemed like an inconvenience. as I had buyers asking me for FFLs and I had to tell them to contact Jim's to get the FFL themselves. I just thought it a poor business move for a local firearms dealer.
I can take a signed FFL to most any shop in the country and walk out with a firearm with me. It will depend on that particular FFL doing their due diligence to make sure it is my FFL, but how would you even vet that with a corporate FFL?
You dont even need an ffl to walk into a gun shop and buy a gun.
I am not sure that is kosher.
The disposition has to be to the phyical address on the FFL.
I believe anyone walking out the door has to have completed a 4473.
I would suppose that having documentation that the picker-upper is on the FFL or similar may be cause to release the firearm but I would never hand over a firearm to some mutt with a copy of an FFL.
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I wouldn't let it happen in my shop either, however like I stated I know it has happened... My personal MO is to send the FFL copy directly to the other dealer directly, ymmv
Well..............not entirely accurate. I used to think so, too. However, the following is from the ATF website :
ATF Web Page
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