Why can't ballistic apps account for lighting conditions and mirage?

[Hogstooth]

So of all the things that a ballistic app or weather meter can account for that are invisible to the eye, why can't someone come up with a way for them to measure and account for lighting conditions and mirage displacement?

I have had several times in which shooting back to back days on the same range and same general weather conditions that lighting conditions, mirage, or combination of both have resulted in significant elevation and windage changes.

Seems like someone would be able to come up with a way to measure and account for these variables.

 

[Steel head]

How would it know what to correct?
Are going to give it precise mirage readings or light readings?

 

[Dthomas3523]

Well for one, it’s not the same from shooter to shooter. Let alone really a measurable condition.

 

[CoryT]

Indeed, there is no way to quantify and input such information. Given the variability in optics and individual eyesight/perception, the same conditions may result in different solutions as well.

 

[isofahunter]

Trajectory is Science
Wind is Art
Light/Optical Variation is Voodoo

Credit to @Skookum

 

[Steel head]

Trajectory is Science
Wind is Art
Light/Optical Variation is Voodoo

Credit to @Skookum

About right.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

You actually can. Some devices do. Just depends on how deep your pockets are.

 

[seanh]

Because most people don't have access to the appropriate equipment to measure lighting. You would need luminescence, color, Direction and maybe polarity. You would have to take measurements in multiple access and angles from the objective side of the scope in addition to the exit pupil.

All of those measurements would have to be taken at the time of the shot.

Start tracking lighting conditions with your regular environmental measurements that you should be tracking already. You will notice a pattern if you shoot enough.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Trajectory is Science
Wind is Art
Light/Optical Variation is Voodoo

Credit to @Skookum

I've used a modified version of that phrase quite a lot since I first saw it here on the hide.

 

[stello1001]

So I'm not too familiar with shooting in severe mirage LR conditions. However, if you shoot on your backyard 1000 yard range in the winter when there is no mirage, how could elevation change if mirage is added to the equation? The distance is still the same and the load is still the same.

I don't mean to stir the pot but I am genuinely curious and believe this is related to the OP.

 

[isofahunter]

@stello1001
A start in your journey

South Texas Marksmanship Training Center - Reading Mirage

Optical Illusions:

Mirage
Shimmer
Light at Shooter Dark at target
Dark at Shooter Light at target

Everyone has different experience but w/ my Astigmatism I have discovered over the years a measurable impact when lighting conditions change or are different.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

So I'm not too familiar with shooting in severe mirage LR conditions. However, if you shoot on your backyard 1000 yard range in the winter when there is no mirage, how could elevation change if mirage is added to the equation? The distance is still the same and the load is still the same.

I don't mean to stir the pot but I am genuinely curious and believe this is related to the OP.

Because the mirage makes the target look like it's actually higher or lower than it really is, affecting POI. There's two target locations at Altus I absolutely refuse to check my data any more after having seen consistent .2 mil shift in elevation in some lighting conditions. They're the only two targets on the range that do it, too.

 

[stello1001]

Because the mirage makes the target look like it's actually higher or lower than it really is, affecting POI. There's two target locations at Altus I absolutely refuse to check my data any more after having seen consistent .2 mil shift in elevation in some lighting conditions. They're the only two targets on the range that do it, too.

Yeah after giving it a bit more thought after I posted, this is the conclusion I came to. Makes sense.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I have had several times in which shooting back to back days on the same range and same general weather conditions that lighting conditions, mirage, or combination of both have resulted in significant elevation and windage changes.

It's called marksmanship?

 

[Steel head]

So I'm not too familiar with shooting in severe mirage LR conditions. However, if you shoot on your backyard 1000 yard range in the winter when there is no mirage, how could elevation change if mirage is added to the equation? The distance is still the same and the load is still the same.

I don't mean to stir the pot but I am genuinely curious and believe this is related to the OP.

Simple
Light path between you and the target get bent.
You are aiming with your vision and your vision is distorted.
Out in eastern Washington in the summer mirage can get fierce but the mirage in the hot and humid areas can actually make it difficult even see the target.

Snow on the ground can do some whacky things as well, especially in bright conditions.

 

[northern50]

Place a spotting scope with reticle at a target early in the morning with no mirage, come back later In the day and see what the actual mirage shift is, then as night falls and mirage dies off, your reticle should go back to the original point of aim. Fun to watch how much the mirage is shifting the image from morning to mid day.

 

[Tokay444]

Just remember that garbage in is garbage out.
If you’re not able to quantify the input, the calculator won’t give you the desired output.
Can you quantify lighting condition, or mirage in a value that a calculator can use?

 

[roostercogburn98]

Why don’t they make a service that rents out couriers to carry my bullet and place it center mass every time why we are in the subject of taking the skill out of shooting. Maybe I’m crazy and this post is out of line BUT, reading some people’s thoughts and wants makes me wonder why they shoot at all. All the new crazy equipment has made some people forget that shooting used to be a hard learned skill and not everyone could do it with a gun they just walked out of the store with. At least not repeatably and accurately. Not a stab at anyone personally, just a random thought I have from time to time.

 

[Tokay444]

Easy button all the things!

 

[madpat]

use this device

Trijicon Ventus: Measuring Range AND WIND!

Today Trijicon unveiled a new product that is sure to have the shooting community talking. They cal...

precisionrifleblog.com

 

[Tokay444]

use this device

Trijicon Ventus: Measuring Range AND WIND!

Today Trijicon unveiled a new product that is sure to have the shooting community talking. They cal...

precisionrifleblog.com

Where does it do light and mirage?

 

[madpat]

Where does it do light and mirage?

I think about wind speed measurements on different distance.

 

[Tokay444]

I think about wind speed measurements on different distance.

As should all long range shooters. My question stands.

 

[PracticalTactical]

I don't think such a feature would be practical as a software only solution.

It could work in theory if a laser system was paired with some sort of analytical software.

From a practical sense... The problems lie from a parameter entry perspective in the variances that occur...

How do you tell the software that a really dark cloud just covered half the range, but not all of it?

Or maybe a not so dark cloud covered half the range, or 3/4, but its kind of a hazy day too.

Okay the sun is at 1:30 right now relative to the shooting direction but kind of low in the sky because of the season.

Just lots of variables.... Lots of subjectivity... Cool idea to the Op, but you're going to need a nerd with a slide rule in his pocket to manage the inputs. By the time he enters the values, you'll be done shooting.