Rifle Scopes why do so many bash the mark 4s

TOPGuN050

TOPGuN050

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Mar 28, 2012
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Butler PA
#1
i am currently looking into buying a high end optic to replace my Nikon. the gun shop i normally deal with is telling me to go with a mark 4 hands down.

here is where my problem starts, i get on this forum and a few others only to find that the majority of people call the leupys garbage, junk for the money you pay,

does anyone have anything positive to say about the leupold tactical optics?

i made a mistake buying my nikon. its not a bad scope, but for what i am wanting to do its much less than sufficient. i do not want to make the same mistake twice.

any help so i dont make the same mistake twice would be greatly appreciated
 
#4
Re: why do so many bash the mark 4s

Don't get caught up in the names. There are a lot of quality scopes out there.

Make a list of what features you want and compare prices. You may find that the Leupold does exactly what you want for what you're willing to spend... you might even find a scope that does the same thing for less.

I will tell you that the Mark 4 line of scopes are very durable and the customer service is great.

I couldn't give a shit about what glass the Elite Army Seal Team Delta Squad uses. I just know that my Leupold scopes have seen some pretty tough use, always held their zero, and tracked just fine.

And if anything does go wrong, call them up. Their turn around times are very good from my experience.
 
#6
Re: why do so many bash the mark 4s

basically, i am looking for matched ret. and turrets, mil dot i think. i am still rather new to all of this.

i shoot my 110BA out to 1300yds believe it or not, its a 300wm.

the nikon i am running runs out of adjustment way way before 1300 so i need a much larger adjustment range. i am tired of just guessing holdover with the nikon.

i am willing to spend the money to get this performance and i want to believe the guy at the gunshop i go to on leupys he seems to know his stuff and he put my 110 together and did a fine job on it. just all the naysayers kind of bother me. it would be rather hard to take making a mistake on a scope that is as expensive as the mark 4. lets just say my other half would be rather pissed off if i went to her and said i need to spend another 2 grand because the 1800 leupy i replaced my 700 dollar nikon with is no good.

thanks for the answers so far
 
#7
Re: why do so many bash the mark 4s

As the world moved on they sat on their proverbial ass and told the market what it needed and opposed to listening to the market and providing what the market wanted.

In this game FFP where the turrets match the reticle is a good place to start the discussion. They have of recent made the decision to bring new products to market that are meeting the customers requests. At the end of the day, time will tell.
 
#8
Re: why do so many bash the mark 4s

chiller, considering that leupy has just recently started listening to the market, do you think that its a test dummy kind of thing? i by all means do not want to take a risk with that kind of money at this point. i already have bought once and cried once with my nikon. in all reality should i just go the next mile and buy a NF?
 
#9
Re: why do so many bash the mark 4s

possibly even a vortex? guy at the shop talked badly about vortex. he said that the vortex doesnt match up to the leupy. other people say the opposite.

i hope you see my confusion on all of this
 
#10
Re: why do so many bash the mark 4s

I have had three, all have been great scopes, no complaints at all.

HOWEVER, I am irritated by Leupolds lack of action in bringing new products out. They seem to be the last ones in the game to finally offer matching turrets and reticle, as well as FFP. But when they do, they increase their prices to the point I am no longer interested. For that kind of money, I'll buy a NF.



BTW, dont overlook the Vortex's.
 
#11
Re: why do so many bash the mark 4s

I own and have used many different makers of high end scopes. Right now if I were going to buy a new piece of glass I would put my money with Vortex.

Would love the hear why the "guy" you reference would not put Vortex head to head with Leupold?

make sure you are comparing apples to apples.
 
#13
Re: why do so many bash the mark 4s

I must say, if your friend that works at the gun store loves Leupolds, and despises Vortex's then I have to question his credibility. I have owned two Mark 4 ER/T's and neither of them tracked. However, the PST I've owned tracked flawlessly for half the price. Now, if his experience is based on minute of deer, then so be it, but Leupolds have cost me points in matches for not tracking properly.

I have also owned many nice scopes including Schmidt and Bender, Hensoldt, Premier etc., and the only scope I recommend under a Nightforce is a Vortex PST, and that is from my own personal experience.
 
#14
Re: why do so many bash the mark 4s

Chiller's opinion reflects my own. Leupold may make some quality optics, but for the price you pay for the features you get, there are better options out there for spending your money! The only area the PST doesn't stack up against the MK4 is glass quality, but its 1/2 the price. Tracking, reticle, FFP, Illumination, Zero Stop for around $1k is tough to beat. The Razor is a whole new level of glass and I wouldn't think twice about buying one...

I'm trying to unload the last of my Leupold MK4's and don't plan on restocking them if that tells you anything either...

Mike
 
#15
Re: why do so many bash the mark 4s

"why do so many bash the mark 4s"

Quite simply it is high fashion in some circles.

I have owned Leupold scopes for 30 years and have never had a problem with a single one.I currently own 3- Mark 4's and 4 VXIII's. The oldest is 30 years old. I sent it back last year for target turrets and a checkover. They replaced the turrets for a nominal fee and gave a detailed list of the warranty checklist, regassed and GTG.
Bought my FIL a 2.5-8 VXIII recently, used. It seemed fine but had a small scratch on the occular lens on the side where it was not a problem. Tracked fine. It was missing the medalion so I sent it back to get it replaced, no other issues were mentioned by me. 5 days later, received a letter that they had my scope and it was in que for warranty work. 3 days later I received the scope in the mail with a detailed work list.
Replaced medalion-no charge
Relpaced occular lens- no charge
Replaced objective lens- no charge
Replaced elevation erector- no charge
Replaced windage erector- no charge
Regassed- no charge.

So I guess what I am saying is beyond the fact that they have phenominal customer service and they employ a very large number of American workers, their scopes are pretty much overpriced shit. I threw that in there so I could remain fashionable.

I have had my 16x MK4, and a friend's 16x MK4, sitting side by side with another friend's $2000 NXS 5.5-22. This was at dusk looking downrange at 150yds. Sorry I have 20/15 still, last Optometrist visit, and I couldn't see $500 worth of clarity or options over the MK4 16x.
But then again I am not one of the cool kids, and don't care.
 
#16
Re: why do so many bash the mark 4s

All the scopes I own are Leupolds, except for one NF. I have never had one problem with Leupold, I just bought a NF to see what all the fuss is about. I have sent a couple scopes in to have turrets added and reticles changed, wonderful customer service from them every time. I do agree with Chillers point about sitting on their ass though, it would be nice to have a wider selection of reticles among other things. I say get what makes you happy and what you would have confidence in.
 
#17
Re: why do so many bash the mark 4s

I bought a 4.5-14x50 M5 FFP TMR about 7 months ago used, as new for $1250.00 shipped. It tracks great and I have no complaints. Didn't need the lit option so it wasn't an issue. It's not S&B glass but its not 3K either. Just couldn't justify S&B's on every rifle.

I agree that they sat on their thumbs and cruised along on their name way to long.

Hope this helps.
 
#18
Re: why do so many bash the mark 4s

I've got 5 mrk4's and have had zero problems with any of them and some of these scopes have had a rough life. Not one problem. I'm sure there are some good scopes out there but from my experience Leupold has been outstanding!
 
#20
Re: why do so many bash the mark 4s

I have 2 Leupold scopes myself and they work just fine, have not seen any of the tracking problems reported by others, I recently had the chance to run my M24 with Ultra M3a all the way out to 1050M and went up and down the elveation range back to zero many times and did not have a any tracking issues at all.
 
#22
Re: why do so many bash the mark 4s

People bash what they don't have experience with. This sport/hobby is riddled with people who read someone else's opinion then claim it as their own. Don't count out Vortex optics as they are very nice pieces of glass. I own a NF and Vortex PST and to be honest they are pretty on par with one another but NF is better. My friends have Leupolds and they're great glass as well. To be honest, the best glass is the one you see the most clearly through, you meaning yourself. Keep in mind the pros and cons others with experience have pointed out, compare these to what you like and dislike and make your decision off of that.
 
#24
Re: why do so many bash the mark 4s

thanks for all the help, i am still up in the air as to what optic i am going to go with. ill have around 1600 to 1900 to spend but wouldnt mind a bit cheaper.

all the input has helped alot and once again thanks again to everyone
 
#25
Re: why do so many bash the mark 4s

In the past 7 years I have owned 5 Mk4's, 2 Vortex PST's, 4 Vortex HS midway specials (mil/mil 5-15x), 3 NF NXS, 3 Nikon Tacticals and 2 5-20 SWFA super snipe's. This is what I have owned and the only scopes I care to comment on. There are others out there but I don’t have experience on them.

What have I learned? Vortex is AWESOME for the dollar and the best buy. Followed by SWFA's super sniper 5-20 if you’re willing to spend greater than 1000.00

Out of all my scopes NF has been the best in image but to be honest others are so close does it really matter? Did any keep me from seeing my target... no

So what’s important besides that? Keeping a zero and tracking? All of them have tracked and kept there zero.

Ok, so what’s left then... durability? While the NF, SWFA and Nikon Tacticals inspire more confidence than vortex and Leupold I have yet to brake any of them so I can’t really say one is more durable that the next. All have been used on the range and in the hunting fields where they do get bumped around a little. But I don’t shoot comps yet or intentionally subject them to harsh handling.

So with that in mind, what???

I have sold off all of my Mk-4's and all but one NF and replaced them with Midway's "exclusive" vortex HS 5-15 mil/mil and SWFA's 5-20 SS!

But that won’t keep me from buying another NF or Mk-4 at the right price as just this week I picked up another Mk4 because the price was right (it hasn’t gotten here yet, hence the above statement).

What’s the right price you ask??? Could be anywhere from 30-50% off Leupold's MSRP depending on the model. But you won’t find that kind of a price in stores. You will have to buy used. That is what I feel a Mk-4 is worth... 6-8 hundred depending on the model for Mil/Moa models. Mil/Mil, I can’t say as I personally hate the look, feel and height of the M1/M5 style turret and may never own one unless they change it down the road.

I’d love to see a fat single turn M2/M3 type dial with ~13 mil on it... if you’re listening Leupold!


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOPGuN050</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ill have around 1600 to 1900 to spend but wouldnt mind a bit cheaper. </div></div>

FWIW,
I'd go SWFA 5-20 for that money or a used NF F1.
 
#26
Re: why do so many bash the mark 4s

I take this back.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, so what’s left then... durability? While the NF, SWFA and Nikon Tacticals inspire more confidence than vortex and Leupold I have yet to brake any of them so I can’t really say one is more durable that the next. All have been used on the range and in the hunting fields where they do get bumped around a little. But I don’t shoot comps yet or intentionally subject them to harsh handling. </div></div>

One PST went down. What happened was the reticle took off on a clockwise cant but Vortex took care of me. I shipped it back and in four (or was it five) days’ time I was looking through the same scope again, fixed and cleaned of a couple flakes on the FFP that I didn’t ask to be fixed but they took care of it anyway. And it’s the same scope not a replacement. Go Vortex!

So out of 6 vortex's 1 had an issue but was fixed to better than expected and in record time.

My two dealings with Leupold customer service was a replacement M2 turret that I wanted (didn’t need but wanted anyway) that took almost a year, 3-4 emails and a couple phone calls with a completely wrong turret sent (non-Mk4) before I received what I originally ordered.

I also I emailed them for a turret conversion complete with all the important info, model, serial number, etc. and was told it won’t be a problem but on a later phone call when I was getting ready to ship it I was told by a different “tech” that it could not be done.

Not so confidence inspiring.



 
#27
Re: why do so many bash the mark 4s

Leupolds ride on top of most my rifles and have never had a problem with them.

Last year I decided to replace the 16X MK4 that was on my SR 25
because I wanted something that would give me a low to high power range and a IR. I picked up a S&B 5-25 and am very happy with it because it has the extra features I wanted but can say that that MK 4 is every bit as clear and tracks every bit as good as my new S&B. I tested them both side by side at 16X at dawn, day & dusk till dark & I can't tell any difference in image quality.
The S&B wins when it comes to FOV at low power & the IR is a big help to me in low light but can tell you that if most of your shooting is at LR during the day those 16X MK4's are hard to beat, have alot of adjustment and are built like a tank.
I put mine back in the box where it will stay until I get a rifle that I only plan on using for long range during the day.
 
#28
Re: why do so many bash the mark 4s

<span style="font-weight: bold">#1 Problem I had with my Mark 4 is not picking the right power for the job.

#2 problem "quality" my gripe is the Leupold lens cover. My daughter was flipping it up and down. While using the RED button to flip up the rear cover broke apart! </span>
 
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