Why Even Reload?

[SonoranPrecision]

Ok guys, I know this might sound sarcastic, but I am genuinely curious as to what you all think as I’m sure there’s an angle I haven’t considered.

Let me start with some background. I recently put together a rifle in 6.5CM with the intention of competing in some local and/or regional PRS matches. After putting the rifle together, I wanted to start with shooting some factory ammo to acquire some brass and experience with the rifle before diving head long into reloading for it (I reload for every other rifle I have). I started out with a case of Hornady 140 eldm, and while it did reasonably well at the first match I shot, the accuracy and velocity numbers weren’t quite there (0.8-1.0 moa + low and somewhat erratic velocities = not a great combo for the long range stages).

Not wanting to give up on factory ammo quite yet, I picked up a couple cases of the Factory Berger 140 Hybrid ammo. I figured at the very least, I can sell it and recoup the cost of it doesn’t shoot either.

Long story short it shoots great! 0.5-0.7 moa 10 shot groups, SD’s in the 10-12 range!

This having been said (everything’s always subject to change), if I buy the loaded ammo and sell the Lapua brass, it costs less than the cost of the components to reload, and that doesn’t even account for the time savings.

So my question is: Given my application, is there anything I’m missing by not developing a load specific to this rifle? I’m not chasing groups, I’m just smacking steel, maybe some coyote hunting from time to time.

You’re thought and opinions are greatly appreciated!

 

[Teach Me Sensei]

Why even use a rifle at 100 yards? Just throw a rock.

Reloading wont matter at such a short range.

 

[pmclaine]

With ammo prices right now I find myself asking the same question but when ammo prices were high or the "panics" made ammo scarce I was shooting up a storm with the brass and bullets falling off my press now united as one.

 

[Threadcutter308]

If you are going to reload, you should be stockpiling components. When the next "panic" hits (and it will, just a question of when), you will be able to produce ammo that is in short supply everywhere. Loaded/factory ammo will go up in price, while your costs will remain low. Conversely, if market conditions never changed from what they are now, reloading does not make sense financially. Reloading also gives you load flexibility, factory ammo does not.

The primary reason I reload ? Insurance against market/political conditions. Secondarily, I enjoy the hobby. Third, over the long haul, it does save me money.

 

[Steel head]

I have a love/hate relationship with reloading.
It can be a chore but I like the results.
By now my equipment has easily paid for itself so my loads are fairly cheap.
Not every cartridge has a lot of of choices for factory target ammo and the production volume to keep prices low and not everyone wants to shoot 6.5CM.

 

[SonoranPrecision]

Why even use a rifle at 100 yards? Just throw a rock.

Reloading wont matter at such a short range.

Guess you didn’t read the post. I’m shooting out to about 1300 yards. I was doing some work at 100 to get a zero and shot a group for the hell of it.

 

[Threadcutter308]

If you are going to reload, you should be stockpiling components. When the next "panic" hits (and it will, just a question of when), you will be able to produce ammo that is in short supply everywhere. Loaded/factory ammo will go up in price, while your costs will remain low. Conversely, if market conditions never changed from what they are now, reloading does not make sense financially. Reloading also gives you load flexibility, factory ammo does not.

The primary reason I reload ? Insurance against market/political conditions. Secondarily, I enjoy the hobby. Third, over the long haul, it does save me money.

Oh, and another aspect of my situation is that I use neckturned/necksized (only) Lapua brass for all my bolt guns. I get to 20 reloads, then retire the brass. So, my reloading costs are very attractive because I re-use the brass for so many reloads.

 

[whatsupdoc]

Well, as the barrels throat erodes a reloader can adjust his bullet seating length and tweak his load to maintain the rifles sweet spot.

No can do with factory ammo.

 

[SonoranPrecision]

Oh, and another aspect of my situation is that I use neckturned/necksized (only) Lapua brass for all my bolt guns. I get to 20 reloads, then retire the brass. So, my reloading costs are very attractive because I re-use the brass for so many reloads.

That’s definitely a good argument. If prices spike though, even components will be limited and likely up in price. Are you talking about having thousands of rounds worth of components sitting around at any given time?

 

[SonoranPrecision]

Well, as the barrels throat erodes a reloader can adjust his bullet seating length and tweak his load to maintain the rifles sweet spot.

No can do with factory ammo.

True, but if the factory load is already shooting well, how much difference is chasing the throat 20-30 thousandths really going to make? Unless a barrel is chambered for a specific factory load, it’s not like you’ll be too close to the lands to begin with. Or am I off base with that train of thought?

 

[mcfred]

Go find some ammo in uncommon or "obsolete" cartridges and research your "return on investment" with regards to reloading.

A quick search on some odd ones:
.338-378 Weatherby? $4.44 a round.
.358 Norma? $3.75 a shot.
.500 Jeffery? Cheapest is about $9.71 per cartridge.

Maybe you inherit a Remington 600 in .350 Rem Mag and you want to use it for sentimental reasons. Tough. No one makes .350 Rem Mag ammo.

Maybe it won't matter much if you're shooting 9x19 and .223 Rem but oddball stuff can get expensive fast.

 

[918v]

In your original post you proved that some factory ammo does not shoot well in your rifle. It is my experience that most factory ammo does not shoot well (per my definition of well).

So what will you do when you cannot find that particular ammo?

 

[kthomas]

There's some really good factory ammo these days.

I used to shoot factory only through my 6.5 creedmoor. Finally bit the bullet and started reloading a few years ago. My reloaded ammo is much more consistent 3-5 SD and 1/3-1/2 MOA (sometimes better) for all my reloads from 6mm to .30 cal.

It's a lot of work, and sometimes it's annoying. But undoubtedly the ammo is better.

Reloading is not necessary, but it certainly helps to get the most out of your precision rifle.

 

[Threadcutter308]

That’s definitely a good argument. If prices spike though, even components will be limited and likely up in price. Are you talking about having thousands of rounds worth of components sitting around at any given time?

Correct. I'm reloading components that in some cases are 10 (or more) years old. I look at the price tags on the boxes and they are going for 2 to 3 times what I paid for them. Keep in mind though, my primary motivation isn't necessarily cost. I'd rather have $1,000.00 (2005 or 2010 dollar cost) of lead/copper/bullets in my possession than $1,000.00 in cash. Five years from now, those bullets will be worth even more and the cash will have suffered the effects of inflation.

I also buy/squirrel away spare barrel blanks from manufacturers who I have had good luck with. I also chamber my own seater and necksizing dies from LE Wilson blanks. They're not cheap, but not expensive for what I get, either. Plus, those die are for specific bolt guns and result in VERY consistent reloads. I honestly couldn't tell you when the last time was that I bought any factory bolt gun rounds.

Conversely, by way of example, I can't come close to this price. Maybe with components I have been sitting on. Bright side is I don't shoot 115's and 147 gr's are still up there in price;

Case of Federal 9MM Luger 115GR FMJ Black Pack, 1,000rds - C9115BP250

Federal Champion handgun ammunition is loaded for pounding paper targets with ballistic performance that closely matches comparable Federal Premium loads for the ultimate real-world practice. Federal

palmettostatearmory.com

 

[Huskydriver]

Come back and ask when you start getting throat erosion in 500 rounds...I'll be curious to see how well that factory ammo is still working out ?....


There are a ton of reasons why or why not to reload.If cost per round is your main reason, you don't understand why most is reload for precision rifle.

 

[Howland]

Reloading is the OCD answer to controlling the process. By controlling the process you control the performance.

I've got a couple rifles that found that one factory load that just shoots lights out. When that happens, I stock up but still try to at least duplicate the accuracy of the factory load for the day the lot number changes on the factory load.

I'd buy all you can of that factory load lot but I wouldn't sell the brass. You might need it, just not right now.

 

[chevy_man]

That’s definitely a good argument. If prices spike though, even components will be limited and likely up in price. Are you talking about having thousands of rounds worth of components sitting around at any given time?

Thousands? Tens of thousands. Buy bullets 500+ at a time, buy primers 1000+ at a time, buy powder whenever you can find it.


I could probably turn out ammo for a year if I quit my job and just started loading components. I'll be able to shoot in retirement.

 

[Racer88]

Come back and ask when you start getting throat erosion in 500 rounds...I'll be curious to see how well that factory ammo is still working out ?....


There are a ton of reasons why or why not to reload.If cost per round is your main reason, you don't understand why most is reload for precision rifle.

I'm at 3200 rounds through the original barrel on my RPR 6.5CM. I've only used factory ammo. I'm still consistently shooting sub-MOA 5-shot groups with it... often in the 1/2-MOA range, and sometimes approaching 1/3-MOA when I do "my part" along with a bit of luck. Some 200 yard groups from a couple of weeks ago:

I think i'll eventually delve into reloading. And, I totally get the "OCD" control over every aspect of performance. But, it's logistically not in the cards now (no space / place for a bench).

In the mean time, I get pretty darned good results from Hornady ELD-M 140, Federal Gold Medal Match Berger 130, and Berger Match Target Hybrid 130 cartridges. I'm really liking the new Berger Match Target cartridges. They seem to be quite consistent. And, if I sell the Lapua brass they come wrapped in, the net cost is quite reasonable.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

That’s definitely a good argument. If prices spike though, even components will be limited and likely up in price. Are you talking about having thousands of rounds worth of components sitting around at any given time?

Yes, many thousands worth!! A pile of components is a mountain of possibilities.

 

[Huskydriver]

I'm at 3200 rounds through the original barrel on my RPR 6.5CM. I've only used factory ammo. I'm still consistently shooting sub-MOA 5-shot groups with it... often in the 1/2-MOA range, and sometimes approaching 1/3-MOA when I do "my part" along with a bit of luck. Some 200 yard groups from a couple of weeks ago:

View attachment 7189678 View attachment 7189679

I think i'll eventually delve into reloading. And, I totally get the "OCD" control over every aspect of performance. But, it's logistically not in the cards now (no space / place for a bench).

In the mean time, I get pretty darned good results from Hornady ELD-M 140, Federal Gold Medal Match Berger 130, and Berger Match Target Hybrid 130 cartridges.

That's great...... My point was when you do start having accuracy drop off from barrel wear your factory ammo can't reconfigure for the changes in your barrel.

Perhaps your next barrel won't shoot for crap with factory ammo then what are you doing?

 

[Deleted member 113831]

I think i'll eventually delve into reloading. And, I totally get the "OCD" control over every aspect of performance. But, it's logistically not in the cards now (no space / place for a bench).

When I started reloading, I lived in a 14'x52' trailer house. I picked up a used RCBS partner press and bolted it to an old steel stool that I found. I had one set of dies (308), a balance beam scale, a set of Lee dippers, Lee trimmer, and a trickler.

Components and tools would fit in a tackle box and go under the bed, while the stool with the press on it went in the closet. You just have to want to bad enough.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Picked up 600rds of of Hornady American Gunner @$0.75rd because it does this. SD ES under 20

 

[Racer88]

When I started reloading, I lived in a 14'x52' trailer house. I picked up a used RCBS partner press and bolted it to an old steel stool that I found. I had one set of dies (308), a balance beam scale, a set of Lee dippers, Lee trimmer, and a trickler.

Components and tools would fit in a tackle box and go under the bed, while the stool with the press on it went in the closet. You just have to want to bad enough.

Ha! But, were you married with kids?

If I'm going to do it, I want it on a permanently installed and accessible bench. If it's "portable" / stowable, I'll never ever use it. So, when the kids are gone, and I commandeer one of the rooms for my own "man cave," THEN I can do it.

 

[Racer88]

That's great...... My point was when you do start having accuracy drop off from barrel wear your factory ammo can't reconfigure for the changes in your barrel.

Perhaps your next barrel won't shoot for crap with factory ammo then what are you doing?

Ha! That's entirely possible! I'm eyeballing a Krieger barrel to replace the OEM barrel.

At 3200 rounds, my OEM barrel is supposed to be WELL past it's lifespan.... but, it's not. Presumably, there has been some throat erosion... with no detrimental effect evident.... yet. 3200 rounds!

 

[Racer88]

Picked up 600rds of of Hornady American Gunner @$0.75rd because it does this. SD ES under 20
View attachment 7189713

I had some amazing groups with Hornady American Gunner / Hornady Black. And, then... I didn't. It's a real "hit and miss" cartridge for me. More recently, it became more of a "miss" cartridge for me... and more so at longer distances (naturally).

 

[acudaowner]

while i know nothing about reloading and very little about bullets and the what and why of how they are made I have only ever tried a few hand loads from a couple of different people some in 6.5 creedmoor in a 140 grain and a few 308 175 grain I can say my experience is mixed I loved the 6.5 cm's so far the sd was 22.4 for the factory hornady American gunner loads and they shot really nice with a from my gun mv around 2747 average the nicer hand loads the berger 140gr with an sd of around 4.4 and an average mv of around 2882 they were far more consistent all but one with speeds not in the 2800's , and like the gentleman who made them told me with more tweaking the bullets could get even nicer . So my take on the whole thing is you can use factory ammo it works , but its there load there choices to make profit not the best product you have no say in it if it preforms for you great if not your s.o.l . You can tailor you ammo a lot to what you want to do softer recoil , higher or lower speeds , extended range It seems to only depend on what you want . I plan on in the future reloading my own if only as something else to learn and to play with . there does seem a lot of joy from getting what you want from a load and a ton of frustration that can accrue from trying and getting it wrong .

 

[Milo 2.5]

True, but if the factory load is already shooting well, how much difference is chasing the throat 20-30 thousandths really going to make? Unless a barrel is chambered for a specific factory load, it’s not like you’ll be too close to the lands to begin with. Or am I off base with that train of thought?

Throat erosion can affect some bullets, I see Berger uses a hybrid, you may be fine for the useful life of the barrel.
I see 2 minor flaws that could throw a curve in your plan, first is not buying enough of one lot of ammo to toast your barrel, but then again I am not familiar with Berger's quality control or lot to lot consistency.
2nd is continuing to get good money for once fired brass. You are not pioneering this venture, or alone. We saw prime brass once fired start at .85 per and within one yr it was below .40 per case.
Being a reloader, I'll pay full price before I buy fired cases from another chamber, regardless of savings.

 

[blbennett1288]

I had some amazing groups with Hornady American Gunner / Hornady Black. And, then... I didn't. It's a real "hit and miss" cartridge for me. More recently, it became more of a "miss" cartridge for me... and more so at longer distances (naturally).

View attachment 7189733

100% my experience. I bought a couple hundred rounds of Hornady Black from Academy when they were moving away from the Black and to American Gunner. I had previous purchased a box and it shot lights out so i thought it was a good investment. I had 3 different lots, 2 of the 3 lots shot great. When I got the American Gunner it shot like the disappointing lot of Black.

 

[Racer88]

100% my experience. I bought a couple hundred rounds of Hornady Black from Academy when they were moving away from the Black and to American Gunner. I had previous purchased a box and it shot lights out so i thought it was a good investment. I had 3 different lots, 2 of the 3 lots shot great. When I got the American Gunner it shot like the disappointing lot of Black.

Yep... I quit buying it. I'm sticking to Hornady ELD-M or Berger Target Hybrids from this point forward.

 

[spife7980]

Why? Because factory ammo is for cucks

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Ha! But, were you married with kids?

If I'm going to do it, I want it on a permanently installed and accessible bench. If it's "portable" / stowable, I'll never ever use it. So, when the kids are gone, and I commandeer one of the rooms for my own "man cave," THEN I can do it.

Married, but no kids.

 

[blbennett1288]

Yep... I quit buying it. I'm sticking to Hornady ELD-M or Berger Target Hybrids from this point forward.

Hornady ELD-M and old Prime shot similar for me, made me consider reloading. I was all about to dive into reloading after purchasing some
Copper Creek ammo and seeing what the barrel was capable of. In a last ditch attempt with factory ammo I tried Berger and was pleasantly
Surprised. To date, it is the only factory ammo I will shoot

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Because you're stuck shooting a small handful of calibers that offer match grade ammo and hand loaders can load for any caliber they make a reamer for, or for a caliber that someone will make a reamer for.

With that said, I dont enjoy reloading, and I have 6 and 6.5 cm barrels for my AI to strictly shoot factory ammo in when i dont feel like reloading.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

I have some factory 40 S&W, 223 and a few other handgun calibers for the stash, but it doesn't get shot. It's there for insurance. I haven't fed my bolt guns factory ammo in over 20 years.

 

[Racer88]

Hornady ELD-M and old Prime shot similar for me, made me consider reloading. I was all about to dive into reloading after purchasing some
Copper Creek ammo and seeing what the barrel was capable of. In a last ditch attempt with factory ammo I tried Berger and was pleasantly
Surprised. To date, it is the only factory ammo I will shoot

I did the Copper Creek thing, too. Initially, I found it to be better. But, then I got better (I think), and the significantly higher expense was not producing better results. So, I went back to factory ammo.

That may all change when I rebarrel with a Krieger. We'll see!

 

[waspocrew]

Great points all around. It's nice to see some factory ammo doing great things these days. My dad's 6 creedmoor loves the factory 108 ELDM ammo. He's got quite a few boxes and it just keeps stacking shots on each other. When accuracy starts to fade, we will start to tinker with loads (we have all the components), but for now, he'll keep shooting the factory stuff since it works so well.

My brother's CTR 6.5 CM does the same with federal gold medal 130 VLD ammo. He found a case of it for $150 and hasn't found a need to load for that rifle yet.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Why? Because factory ammo is for cucks

OMFG, shame him into reloading. I friggin laughed out loud.

 

[clcustom1911]

Why even reload?

Because I don't want to have to notify my state government I am buying ammo.

It's none of their damn business how I spend my money or exercise my Constitutional right.

 

[SonoranPrecision]

Throat erosion can affect some bullets, I see Berger uses a hybrid, you may be fine for the useful life of the barrel.
I see 2 minor flaws that could throw a curve in your plan, first is not buying enough of one lot of ammo to toast your barrel, but then again I am not familiar with Berger's quality control or lot to lot consistency.
2nd is continuing to get good money for once fired brass. You are not pioneering this venture, or alone. We saw prime brass once fired start at .85 per and within one yr it was below .40 per case.
Being a reloader, I'll pay full price before I buy fired cases from another chamber, regardless of savings.

See that’s one of those things I was concerned about. Obviously the potential financial savings isn’t the only goal here, but outside of time saving, it is really the only other benefit.

I hadn’t thought about the lack of desire to buy brass from a different rifle, so thank you mentioning that!

I have no problem with reloading. I handload exclusively for several rifles, I was just playing around with the possibility of not going that route. Perhaps I’ll invest in a couple more cases of the factory load, save all the brass, and work up a load.

 

[Nik H]

I don't reload and I have zero desire to do so. The way I look at it is just another 50 variables to try and make sense of and drive yourself crazy.

I have never felt it has limited my ability with all of the excellent factory ammo out there. We shoot at rather large plates...run the statistics for yourself and see that it makes little difference. If we were shooting NRA high power or 1,000 yard benchrest, then I wholeheartedly agree that you could not be competitive without reloading you own and completely tailoring it to your stick.

I could care less about "wildcat" calibers. I am perfectly content to shoot the calibers I can get. It is a far cry from 10 years ago.

It makes no financial sense despite what people tell you. Unless you are shooting 5K rounds a year, equipment breakeven takes years. Oh and I have heard the "it only costs a few hundred to start". What a crock. Most people that produce high quality match grade ammo spend 10X that on all of their gear. If you do it to save money, you are in for a rude awakening.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

It makes no financial sense despite what people tell you. Unless you are shooting 5K rounds a year, equipment breakeven takes years. Oh and I have heard the "it only costs a few hundred to start". What a crock. Most people that produce high quality match grade ammo spend 10X that on all of their gear. If you do it to save money, you are in for a rude awakening.

Reloading saves money on ammunition, about the same way meth saves on groceries!

 

[Maxduty]

Well, as the barrels throat erodes a reloader can adjust his bullet seating length and tweak his load to maintain the rifles sweet spot.

No can do with factory ammo.

Not true. I can use an impact bullet puller, then reseat them to my specs. I've actually done this with some factory loads to tweak them to find a round that can be used in some rifles.

 

[whatsupdoc]

Not true. I can use an impact bullet puller, then reseat them to my specs. I've actually done this with some factory loads to tweak them to find a round that can be used in some rifles.

Are you going to add powder to make up for the velocity loss of seating the bullets longer and the worn throat.

 

[Maxduty]

Are you going to add powder to make up for the velocity loss of seating the bullets longer and the worn throat.

No. Ill rezero and start from there. Reloading has an advantage some of the time. In other cases, when the airline looses your luggage with your handloaded rounds, where are you going to buy them? That's the second reson I stick with factory loads.

 

[Chips26]

No. Ill rezero and start from there. Reloading has an advantage some of the time. In other cases, when the airline looses your luggage with your handloaded rounds, where are you going to buy them? That's the second reson I stick with factory loads.

If the airline loses my ammo then I've got bigger things to worry about, because theyve also lost my gun.

 

[tnichols]

I “learned” to reload precision rifle ammunition for several of the reasons stated above. But, I also did it to understand and learn a new skill. I shoot factory ammo in a couple of systems because to be honest, some of it shoots really well. However, I feel it’s important to have the knowledge and ability to do things on my own and not rely on someone else for supply.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

I reload because I like to go faster than box ammo will go.

And because experimenting is half the fun.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

I got addicted to building handgun rounds and it followed into my precision shooting. I build my own because I can and I like to. It *is* more accurate than factory but not by all that much. The main reason is that I get off on rolling my own and it's about half the price of factory built ammunition.

I started on 6.5 Creedmoor and now want to move up to 300 WinMag or .338 LM. The only way I can afford to shoot those calibers in the quantity I would like is if I reload.

VooDoo

 

[Sierra770]

Whether it’s ammo, furniture, or lunch, I enjoy making my stuff my way whenever possible. I’m willing to pay for that luxury.

 

[Nik H]

The last few posts above really sum it up....

If you enjoy it, DO it.