Why no love for the H&K 417?

[ProudKiwi]

Good evening,

There is a possibility of me purchasing a 417 in the next few months. Now I'm sure this is not a big deal to most of you Stateside guys but they are as rare as rocking horse shit in my neck of the woods.

As such, they are not talked about much on my local forums so thought I would check 'The Hide'

I dont see much mention of them and am wondering why???

Are they considered rubbish?

 

[USACS]

Re: Why no love for the H&K 417?

The commercial version over here is the MR762A1. They're like unicorn shit over here. At least in my neck of the woods. I have yet to actually see one on the shelves of a store.
HK USA still lists the MR762A1 as such:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The MR762A1 is currently in advanced development.</div></div>

The MR556A1 (HK416) shows up now and again, but the 7.62 version is the Loch Ness Monster.
I suspect that the market for the rifle is pretty limited, as the cost will likely be very inflated and far more expensive than the competitors like LMT, LWRC and POF. HK has a habit of thinking that their products are worth more than they really are, so I can't imagine it'll have a huge following anywhere.

 

[mewillis]

Re: Why no love for the H&K 417?

read about it here Kiwi

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk416-hk417-hq/

 

[kaspermj]

Re: Why no love for the H&K 417?

Hi
I am currently using this particular rifle in afghanistan. We use a supressed HK 417S with a 3-12 S&B PMII, when operating in the greenzones in the helmandprovince. It was adopted by the army for doing just that.
The reason they picked that rifle was that the SF allready had them for use as a DMR.
It doesnt feel like this rifle was designed to be a sniper rifle. I am quite sure that fitting a better barrel and calling it 417S was an afterthought. It is an ergonomically nightmare for precision work, and I can not reccomend buying one for that. Especially not using your own money.
But then again, I am quite sure you can fix this by adding some other parts to it. New stock, pistolgrip and that kind of stuff.
Kasper

 

[BCP]

Re: Why no love for the H&K 417?

I don't know looks like another piston AR to me. If I lived in NZ I would have a dragunov just because they are no longer imported here

Not sure what sort of do-it-yourself options you have there (lots of people build their own AR's with parts purchased largely through the mail here in the states) but I'm willing to be something more conventional would be money better spent.

 

[ProudKiwi]

Re: Why no love for the H&K 417?

Thank you for the feedback and the link

If the deal comes off (???) it will cost me less than what a decent barrel blank would cost so it's probably worth it just for the resale or novelty factor.

I was think about rebarreling it to 6.5x47L or Creedmore anyway.

The sad reality in NZ is that off the shelf after market parts for rifles like these are non-existant and importing anything out of the States is well........problematic!!!

 

[Kilmore]

Re: Why no love for the H&K 417?

Not user friendly. Way clunky nose diver. Over priced. End of rant.

 

[mkmckinley]

Re: Why no love for the H&K 417?

Gas piston ARs are both misunderstood and overrated, especially on a precision build. I would look for a Larue OBR, KAC SR-25, or maybe a LMT MWS but I don't have any first and experience with the MWS. There's a reason most ground-up precision ARs are DI.

 

[mkmckinley]

Re: Why no love for the H&K 417?

Thanks for posting your thoughts. 7.62 is real nice to have in that area, are you guys still getting issued the Lapua ammo?

 

[chainring]

Re: Why no love for the H&K 417?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mkmckinley</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There's a reason most ground-up precision ARs are DI. </div></div>

Yeah, and that would be the fact that most companies only make DI rifles and most people are familiar with the DI system. Dare I say that many people might even be ignorant about piston systems? Piston doesn't mean innacurate, ask a few POF and LWRC owners. For the record, not all pistons are created equal. I would only recommend the LWRC, PWS, and POF offerings, the latter two only because of feedback from trustworthy sources.

And yes, a Larue OBR would fill the bill for precision quite nicely....as would an LWRC REPR, although the OP didn't ask about precision.

Now, the reason the HK rifles aren't in large numbers over here is because HK sucks, and they hate you.

Seriously, though, they've got importation hurdles to leap AND big government contracts....the civilian market just never has been a huge priority.

 

[KYS]

Re: Why no love for the H&K 417?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chainring</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mkmckinley</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There's a reason most ground-up precision ARs are DI. </div></div>

Yeah, and that would be the fact that most companies only make DI rifles and most people are familiar with the DI system. Dare I say that many people might even be ignorant about piston systems? Piston doesn't mean innacurate, ask a few POF and LWRC owners. For the record, not all pistons are created equal. I would only recommend the LWRC, PWS, and POF offerings, the latter two only because of feedback from trustworthy sources.

And yes, a Larue OBR would fill the bill for precision quite nicely....as would an LWRC REPR, although the OP didn't ask about precision.

Now, the reason the HK rifles aren't in large numbers over here is because HK sucks, and they hate you.

Seriously, though, they've got importation hurdles to leap AND big government contracts....the civilian market just never has been a huge priority. </div></div>

Some of the top rifle builders in the world are saying that when it comes to accuracy, you want DI in an AR10 platform. I have yet to see an AR10 platform outshoot a GAP10 or Larue OBR.

 

[ChielScape]

Re: Why no love for the H&K 417?

In defence of the pistons, they are relatively new in the AR platform, so they haven't had the 60 year development time the DI platform had.
The reason the AR has been developed for accuracy is because everyone has one, and people keep buying them, often seemingly unaware there are other guns, aside from AKs maybe. The market for them is simply huge, that of DI variants especially because people like what they know and they know what they like.
To decide which is better, inherently, a new rifle would have to be designed from the ground up with everything else being equal.

 

[ProudKiwi]

Re: Why no love for the H&K 417?

Unfortunatley, OBR's or similar are just not an option as they are impossible to land legally in New Zealand. As it stands, most if not all semi's like the AR and HK are Bushmaster's or similar.

As for precision, I dont need or want the H&K for that. I have plenty of bolt guns that shoot way better than me.

All up its looking like costing less than $1k US and includes an Acog and Atlas bipod.

Fuck it, I just made up my mind......I'm an H&K owner

 

[chainring]

Re: Why no love for the H&K 417?

If a REPR or POF were merely to EQUAL a GAP10 or OBR, I would call that precision. I've seen groups posted that equal them. Hope to make a few of my own early next year with a REPR, but we'll see how things pan out at SHOT.

If you are looking at getting an HK for under a grand in US bucks, you had better jump on it! If that includes an ACOG, somebody is smoking pot or selling clones. That's a heck of a deal.

 

[Bedlam]

Re: Why no love for the H&K 417?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ProudKiwi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
All up its looking like costing less than $1k US and includes an Acog and Atlas bipod.</div></div>

Under $1000USD for HK417, Acog, and Atlas bipod?

Surely you have either a typo or an error in your currency convertor!

 

[NZShoota]

Re: Why no love for the H&K 417?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ProudKiwi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If the deal comes off (???) it will cost me less than what a decent barrel blank would cost so it's probably worth it just for the resale or novelty factor.

</div></div>

It's a big IF!! I'm down for a couple but not holding my breath on them ever getting import approval

It just seems too good a deal to be true

 

[kaspermj]

Re: Why no love for the H&K 417?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mkmckinley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for posting your thoughts. 7.62 is real nice to have in that area, are you guys still getting issued the Lapua ammo? </div></div>

Yes. We use either the 167grain lapua scenar or 170 grain lockbase.
A 7.62 is a nice thig in that area. But I am sure that there are better systems awailable than the HK.

 

[kthomas]

Re: Why no love for the H&K 417?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ProudKiwi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

All up its looking like costing less than $1k US and includes an Acog and Atlas bipod. </div></div>

Add another "0" to that figure and I'll believe you...

 

[ratton]

Re: Why no love for the H&K 417?

HK (High Kost)

 

[Bevan]

Re: Why no love for the H&K 417?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NZShoota</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ProudKiwi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If the deal comes off (???) it will cost me less than what a decent barrel blank would cost so it's probably worth it just for the resale or novelty factor.

</div></div>

It's a big IF!! I'm down for a couple but not holding my breath on them ever getting import approval

It just seems too good a deal to be true

</div></div>

Big 'if' indeed. I doubt it will happen. Especially at that price. ACOG alone is worth more.

 

[GunKnowledge]

Re: Why no love for the H&K 417?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Big 'if' indeed. I doubt it will happen. Especially at that price. ACOG alone is worth more. </div></div>

ACOGs are all worth over $1000?

In that case, I have a couple hundred I need you to buy from me.

 

[ChielScape]

Re: Why no love for the H&K 417?

Real ACOGs that is, not the chinese knock-offs

 

[Schleifalot]

Re: Why no love for the H&K 417?

I'm chiming in late
To the Starter:

A buddy owns the MR308, it is the civilian semi auto version of the HK 417.
I costs a kidney and a half...
There are nearly no aftermarket parts, HK parts cost the remaining half kidney.
My buddy has a Dresdenoptics 5-20 x 50 scope mounted. Medium level medium price glass, works like a dream.
This MR308 shoots 3/4 MOA at 100m with MEN surplus ammo, the same at 300m.
We consider building a cheekpad out of a sheet of thick kydex, the scope sits too high for a comfortable shooting position.

Great rifle, but way too expensive.