Rifle Scopes Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

[eracer]

Seems all I ever see are variable magnification optics on rifles that are used for long-range shooting only.

Am I seeing this wrong? Or is there some advantage to using lower mag at, say, 1000 meters? Target acquisition/FOV?

Seems to me a fixed power scope is mechanically much simpler, and uses less glass elements (making it potentially brighter.)

The reason I ask is that I am building my first dedicated LR rifle, and am contemplating which optic to put on it.

 

[doc76251]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

Mirage at 1K is a biotch at 20X.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[cb_tikka]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

^^^^^^^^^^

Sums it up right there.

 

[Apex Motorsports]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

In the old days (pre 1995) the idea was that the single power scopes were more reliable among other things. The glass and durability of the variable power scopes today are much better than previous offerings. If your shooting long range I would suggest getting a variable power in 6-20+ some days having that extra mag helps you cut through the mirage. The second component is what your shooting, f class or similar can get away with more magnification and heavier optic than say practical/ tactical since your carrying the rifle and doing positional shooting. The main thing that controls brightness is lense coating and objective diameter. ie 56mm of the same make/ design will be brighter than a 40mm. Since your counting on shooting 1000, make sure the cartridge your shooting matches the scope. So if your shooting a round that requires 39moa at 1000 (308 with 175 gr) that you have a scope that has that much elevation correction. Lower mag, the larger field of view makes it easier to get on target, then zoom in once you have your target. Generally I spend the same amount of money on my rifle as I do my scope. So custom 3000 dollar rifle gets Schmidt and Bender, Ruger 10/22 gets bushnell. I know a lot of people who have skimped on glass and struggled. Hope this helps.

 

[mwroseberry]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

I have a USO ST-10. For anything out to 1k yards it is perfect. If I was wanting to go much further I'd go variable because as stated before mirage will get ya. If you get a fixed 17 or 20.

Good luck,
Merritt

 

[khallmark]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

I have a Mk4 16x40 on my 308 that is pretty much only used for shooting steel from 300 - 1100 and couldn't be happier. Optics and tracking are excellent and it has enough adjustment to go a lot farther w/o requiring an elevated base.
Kevin

 

[Ratbert]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

If all you're ever going to do is lay on your belly on a square range and shoot at the 1000yd berm (eg F T/R) then if you want to dedicate yourself to a fix power you can probably get away with it, particularly if you don't ever compete at any sort of serious level.

However if you intend to shoot practical/tactical matches then I think you're going to find a fixed power very limiting. At our St. Patty's day match we had shots where you lay prone and shoot at small targets far away, but we also had a 4 leaf clover @ 16yds. And a free standing snapshot @ 130, combined with 2 barricade targets @ 200. And 45 seconds to crawl into a hide to a left-hand position, locate a target and fire up to 3 shots at it. Being able to dial down a bit in these situations makes life a lot easier.

 

[McCrazy]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

Ratbert beat me to my point. Figures since we have shot in some of the same matches. There have been targets inside of 5 meters and if you couldn't dial down from higher magnifications you would be totally screwed as far as being able to see a close target.

 

[fastex500]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

+1 on Ratbert as well. When we got the "in your face" stage at his last competition, being able to dial down to 3x is VERY helpful (even if I still missed). Plus quickly finding a target is easier if you can dial down, and +1 on the comments about mirage.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

My take on the matter:

http://8541tactical.com/magnification.php

 

[Playerz1337]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

I too am considering a fixed power for long range, either 10x/16x SWFA mil/mil and understand what the guys above are saying but I have also seen some people use a fine (~1 moa) canted red dot for the "in your face" shots like a 3-gun setup would be.

Then again, to each his own...

 

[lazy21]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

I have no problem with fixed, I went 5 years with a ST10 on one rifle.

 

[Ratbert]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Playerz1337</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I too am considering a fixed power for long range, either 10x/16x SWFA mil/mil and understand what the guys above are saying but I have also seen some people use a fine (~1 moa) canted red dot for the "in your face" shots like a 3-gun setup would be.

Then again, to each his own...</div></div>

A canted red-dot is fine when shooting torso or even headshots. When you have to get your shot inside a 1" clover @ 16 yds you're going to want to have a scope with a real reticle in it. Up that close there is a big difference between your hold @ 12 yds and your hold @ 18 yds if you need your bullet to hit exactly where you intend it to.

 

[Ratbert]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lazy21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have no problem with fixed, I went 5 years with a ST10 on one rifle.</div></div>

What kind of matches did you shoot with it?

No one is saying you CAN'T use a fixed power on a LR rifle. We're just explaining why, given the choice, many times it's better to have a variable. A fixed scope offers very few advantages (apart, possibly, from initial price) over a variable but does have some distinct drawbacks in certain situations.

 

[Luke]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

Fixed magnification works just fine. Variables are handy if you ever use your rifle for hunting in the woods and low power makes picking up moving targets at close range much easier. Most guys like the option of variable so they don't mind shelling out the cash for them, so you tend to see them more often. Both are practical - whatever floats your boat.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

Eracer,
the only place around here to get a look at different optics is Shoot Straight on 301 at MLK. They have Weaver, Leupold, Trijicon, Nightforce and I think Zeiss. Their prices are way too high, but you can get an idea of what is out there.

Another option is to go down to the Manatee range on Saturday and cruise up and down the firing line. Plenty of different optics to be seen in real world conditions. Lots of Vortex, Nightforce and Leupolds. You can probably look through any of them and maybe shoot some too.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

No way I would ever run a fixed power scope again. No reason to either anymore with the wide range of more affordable variables on the market now from the Vortex PSTs to the Bushnell HDMRs and others in the sub $1K price range.

Variable powered scopes just give the shooter much more versatility in their shooting.

 

[bkster]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

if you are going to shoot in tactical matches
the ability to lower the mag and find targets is really nice
esp with multiple targets at diff ranges

also as someone said before mirage... less is more

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

I'm new at the long range game, so take this FWIW...

Mirage can be an issue as noted, depends on the day...

I also find that when I'm dialed up to 24X at 600 yards, the FOV is obviously fairly small. If you're shooting a high-recoil round on a stick without a brake (my case), the jump off the bipod and the time to re-acquire the target can often be accomplished faster if I quickly dial back, find the target again, and then dial it back up.

I've been debating between a fixed SWFA 20x, and a Vortex Viper variable 6.5-20, and I think the few extra bucks for the Vortex to get the variable is well worth it.

 

[hk dave]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

A lot of time when I'm shooting on the bench, I often wonder why I don't just get fixed scopes... i find myself maxed out all the time so it would make sense. More light, possibly sharper glass.

In every other situation though, a zoom scope is pure win.

 

[10ringping]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

Either way you decide to go if you plan to do a lot of ranging with your scope I'd recommend FFP.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 10ringping</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Either way you decide to go if you plan to do a lot of ranging with your scope I'd recommend FFP. </div></div>

This is a common misconception. Ranging is no problem with an SFP scope since most measuring will be done at the maximum magnification. This is where most SFP scopes are mil-correct.

Where the SFP has issues is target engagement on less than maximum magnification. I.E. leading a mover or holding during rapid target engagement.

 

[Glocksteady]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

If you shoot at 24x, you need the 6x to find the dang target first. Hince, the need for a variable!

I really amuse myself sometimes!

 

[Ratbert]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 10ringping</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Either way you decide to go if you plan to do a lot of ranging with your scope I'd recommend FFP. </div></div>

This is a common misconception. Ranging is no problem with an SFP scope since most measuring will be done at the maximum magnification. This is where most SFP scopes are mil-correct.

Where the SFP has issues is target engagement on less than maximum magnification. I.E. leading a mover or holding during rapid target engagement.</div></div>

Thanks, now that someone's said it my OCD can relax.

 

[Oneteam]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

I think the consensus has it, fixed is fine but why would you limit yourself when there are so many good options out there for large range variables? I have a Bushnell 1.25-8x with a German #4 and I can easily hit with it out to 600 yards on a 12" steel target. Would a fixed 4x do the same, probably, but I like being able to dial back and see more of the field.

 

[PLeighton]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

My $.02

I like to run an optic with variable power and a higher max magnification.
An 8-25x50mm Leupold ER/T with the TMR reticle is what I run on my 308 bolt gun.
My thinking is that for the type of shooting that I do (practical / tactical long range precision matches), I seldom would benefit from any magnification less than 8 power.
In fact, I typically set it to 10 power and adjust as needed for the course of fire.
Having the ability to go to 25 power is much more useful to me than having the ability to go to 3 or 4 power.

At 25 power, I seldom have any issues with mirage.
Most of the time it just cuts right through it.
The additional magnification is also priceless where positive target identification is required.
And the ability to use the rifle optic for spotting and not carry a spotting scope around is invaluble when you are at a multi day match having to hump all your gear up and down mountains.

FFP is also important to me.
Primarily because I can use the full range of the optic without having to worry about the reticle being correct.
When you are under stress, it is very easy to forget about making sure your SFP optic is on the correct power.
I've seen quite a few folks blow a shot or an entire course of fire due to this.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr. Phil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
At 25 power, I seldom have any issues with mirage.</div></div>

Wish I shot where you do.

A couple matches back we were joking that the mirage was so bad that it didn't matter if you were running a S&B or Tasco. In reality though higher end optics make the mirage less distracting, but NOTHING "cuts through it" short of laser calibrated adaptive mirror systems (think telescopes and high power lasers).

 

[PLeighton]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wish I shot where you do.</div></div>
In the swamps of NC...

Also, shooting here on a coastal plane we shoot off of elevated platforms frequently.
That combined with the winds that we have could have a lot to do with mirage as well.

 

[eracer]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 10ringping</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Either way you decide to go if you plan to do a lot of ranging with your scope I'd recommend FFP. </div></div>

This is a common misconception. Ranging is no problem with an SFP scope since most measuring will be done at the maximum magnification. This is where most SFP scopes are mil-correct.

Where the SFP has issues is target engagement on less than maximum magnification. I.E. leading a mover or holding during rapid target engagement. </div></div>I agree with this logic.

I think the new SWFA 1-6X FFP is a perfect example. It's a big circle/'dot' at 1X

And a nice TMR-style reticle at 6X.

Only FFP allows that.

 

[Remoah]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

Fucking hell Eracer...

Now i've gotta get a 1-6x SWFA

 

[Bugaboo]

Re: Why not fixed magnification for LR guns?

It seems everyone understands fixed-power as high-power optic. Not so long ago we had a guy scoring very well with a 4x scope at a 1000 range.
I don't shot at high magnification at long distances (8x), but recently at a match we had to pick a "smiley" at 100 meter. There was a sheet full of smilies and without the 25x I wouldn't be able to see the details.