Why stopping the caravan at the border is a brilliant plan...

[MarinePMI]

I was thinking about this topic this morning as I was drinking my morning coffee.

Stopping the caravan at the border really has been a brilliant plan. Why you ask?

Because doing so causes them (the migrants) to communicate. Like any herd in distress, the immediate response for a herd's members is to communicate danger, escape options and call for support. Note that last item; call for support.

We all ask the question, "Who in the fuck is paying for all this?". With that many people, money and support has got to be coming from somewhere, either legally or illegally.

Just think about it; 8,000+ people, all in distress. All looking for a way over the border. All reaching out for help to get over that border. All using cellphones. In a foreign country. Not subject to requiring a warrant or FISA request to monitor by the intelligence community. All utilizing a core set of locally placed repeater cell towers. And any calls with persons in the US are considered "incidental collections".

Me thinks this administration has been playing this thing like a fiddle. I mean, we just happened to have had the right amount of CBP personnel, who happened to have been armed with tear gas, at the right part of the border fence, to repel the rushing of the wall. Hmmmm...

I think some rats are getting flushed out with this whole thing....

Something to chew on.

 

[ArmyJerry]

I want jailings of the human traffickers on our side of the border

 

[CJS-6.5]

I want mailings of the human traffickers on our side of the border

Christmas is all about giving. Sendit.

 

[Blowby]

I hope someone special will be coming down their chimney late at night.

 

[deersniper]

I hope someone special will be coming down their chimney late at night.

?

 

[Diver160651]

 

[spaniel]

So this caravan takes >1 month to travel from the Guatamalan border to Mexico City, less than halfway to the US. Talk is that they are headed for the closest crossing point, Texas. Suddenly, less than a week later, the entire caravan is 1500 miles away in Tijuana (where they cross into a more favorable state) and the mainstream media is completely silent on how this happens.

It was only a few days ago I saw reports emerge regarding Pueblo Sin Fronteras supporting the caravan and bussing them to Tijuana. This organization claims to be 15 years old but who has heard of them? Who is funding them? There is serious money behind moving this many people 1500 miles.

 

[Waorani]

https://www.foxnews.com/world/carav...x-other-health-issues-tijuana-government-says

 

[Steel+Killer]

I don't see why we just don't let them come on through put them on a bus and take them to any number of sanctuary cities in California. This is what they want isn't? As long as they promise not to leave CA I think it would be a win win for everyone.

 

[DuneBoer]

Maybe Trump is paying for all this to prove we need better border control and a wall? Maybe Trump started the ball rolling and “groups” have kept it going? Maybe Trump is using the libs to do his bidding?

 

[Mike Casselton]

Let everyone who supports them crossing the border come forward.
Make a list and then divvy up the illegals and move them into the homes of those who wanted them.
Oh, did I forget to mention that those who wanted them must fully support them to include medical, dental and college funds.

I wonder how many would come forward if they knew beforehand they would be responsible for their complete support.

My bet is they would say I don't want them in my house.
If they are in my country they are in MY house!!

 

[MarinePMI]

Hmmmm....more rats fingered methinks...

https://www.foxnews.com/us/driver-leads-border-patrol-on-high-speed-chase-3-dead-8-injured-report

 

[SilentStalkr]

Maybe Trump is paying for all this to prove we need better border control and a wall? Maybe Trump started the ball rolling and “groups” have kept it going? Maybe Trump is using the libs to do his bidding?

I thought about this months ago. I think this like of thinking is correct. Plus, it o has strengthens his position with his current supporters as it makes it look like he is doing something when he has been in control of the entire thing this whole time. It would also explain the US Aid items that have been seen in pics and firsthand by reporters.

 

[SilentStalkr]

Hmmmm....more rats fingered methinks...

https://www.foxnews.com/us/driver-leads-border-patrol-on-high-speed-chase-3-dead-8-injured-report

The messed up thing here is that, one, it was a US citizen helping them, two, people lost their lives, three, the people being treated in the hospital will be at our expense and $10 says they lose track of them at the hospital and they will disappear into the US. So those people will have made it.

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

move them into the homes of those who wanted them

Not gonna happen, those that support illegals only want them to work their fields, manicure their yards, mop their floors, nanny their kids, pay them cash and treat them as slaves with no recourse in their gated communities and penthouse apartments. That's why congress won't get anything done, it would close down the California produce fields and the meat packing plants in Denver, the hotels in San Francisco and New York city. Don't be mislead by the shell game, it's not about human rights......................at least not by those in power.

 

[FS1]

We need the wall act, makling it a Federal felony to hire, harbor or house an illegal alien. Watch how fast border crossing stops. JMHO

 

[deersniper]

Not gonna happen, those that support illegals only want them to work their fields, manicure their yards, mop their floors, nanny their kids, pay them cash and treat them as slaves with no recourse in their gated communities and penthouse apartments. That's why congress won't get anything done, it would close down the California produce fields and the meat packing plants in Denver, the hotels in San Francisco and New York city. Don't be mislead by the shell game, it's not about human rights......................at least not by those in power.

No one else will do those jobs. Too much minimum wage / welfare / disability / .gov "jobs"

They are already being moved off shore or bring mechanized.

A lot of people need to try hiring in industries below the college degree level. You have no idea the amount of f ed up unemployable people out there.

 

[candyx]

Trump wanted to send in the 1st Air Cavalry Division under the operational name " Get Some"

 

[Mike Casselton]

Not gonna happen, those that support illegals only want them to work their fields, manicure their yards, mop their floors, nanny their kids, pay them cash and treat them as slaves with no recourse in their gated communities and penthouse apartments. That's why congress won't get anything done, it would close down the California produce fields and the meat packing plants in Denver, the hotels in San Francisco and New York city. Don't be mislead by the shell game, it's not about human rights......................at least not by those in power.

When I said support I didn't mean give them jobs and pay shitty labor wages. I meant full support like having multiple kids and no welfare check to pay for them.
Kind of like having a worthless BIL living in their basement...

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

When I said support I didn't mean give them jobs and pay shitty labor wages. I meant full support like having multiple kids and no welfare check to pay for them.
Kind of like having a worthless BIL living in their basement...

We're in complete agreement, I didn't mean otherwise so I apologize if it came across that way. We are a nation of immigrants and we need more, just vetted as properly as possible, legally here and productive assimilating taxpaying citizens. My only point was that those that benefit from the illegals being here are running the show, they don't want change as it will dent their pockets.

 

[Diver160651]

We're in complete agreement, I didn't mean otherwise so I apologize if it came across that way. We are a nation of immigrants and we need more, just vetted as properly as possible, legally here and productive assimilating taxpaying citizens. My only point was that those that benefit from the illegals being here are running the show, they don't want change as it will dent their pockets.

Good luck with that being accepted by some-

@ArmyJerry even dislikes generational US citizens, even if they are heavy taxpaying conservatives (hell, I pay much more in Federal tax than the US median household income) ; but considered from the foreign state of California.

Anyway off to see Marc at Spartan Rifles who just spun up two more barrels last night..

This will be 5 or 6 he’s done for me in the last few months.. need a couple more shortly for my match gun.. excited to see if these are also one hole guns like the others he has done.

 

[Sieg]

I've been enjoying the fact that Mexico most likely figured Trump would fold at the boarder. I'm guessing Nieto is wishing he would have fortified his southern boarder.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Hmmmm....more rats fingered methinks...

https://www.foxnews.com/us/driver-leads-border-patrol-on-high-speed-chase-3-dead-8-injured-report

The messed up thing here is that, one, it was a US citizen helping them, two, people lost their lives, three, the people being treated in the hospital will be at our expense and $10 says they lose track of them at the hospital and they will disappear into the US. So those people will have made it.

"The driver is believed to be a U.S. citizen and is now in U.S. Border Patrol custody while being treated for his injuries, "
---it is my opinion, that the driver is personally responsible for ALL of the costs incurred in the accident, including ALL medical costs of ALL the passengers in the truck. To which, once the passengers are stabilized, they too are deported back to whence they've come from.

 

[SilentStalkr]

Good luck with that being accepted by some-

@ArmyJerry even dislikes generational US citizens, even if they are heavy taxpaying conservatives (hell, I pay much more in Federal tax than the US median household income) ; but considered from the foreign state of California.

Anyway off to see Marc at Spartan Rifles who just spun up two more barrels last night..

This will be 5 or 6 he’s done for me in the last few months.. need a couple more shortly for my match gun.. excited to see if these are also one hole guns like the others he has done.

Damn son! What the heck do you do for a living?

 

[Diver160651]

Damn son! What the heck do you do for a living?

Lotsa laughs. The irony is I’m poor. The mean family income in the US is relatively low and my taxes are really high.

 

[daves37120]

We need the wall act, makling it a Federal felony to hire, harbor or house an illegal alien. Watch how fast border crossing stops. JMHO

Also need to get the hacks selling SS#s to the illegals

 

[SilentStalkr]

Lotsa laughs. The irony is I’m poor. The mean family income in the US is relatively low and my taxes are really high.

Ha! We don’t gross but about $160k but I ain’t got money to be building 6 rifles. But my state taxes aren’t terrible, yet. Either way I don’t have that kind of coin. 6 rifles in 3 months? Wow.

 

[Diver160651]

Ha! We don’t gross but about $160k but I ain’t got money to be building 6 rifles. But my state taxes aren’t terrible, yet. Either way I don’t have that kind of coin. 6 rifles in 3 months? Wow.

Oh, sorry rebarrels.

Anyway, my only point was that I pay way more than my share of FED taxes (state is another stupid thing) and some would still like to send (drop) a JDAM my way.

 

[SilentStalkr]

Oh, sorry rebarrels.

Anyway, my only point was that I pay way more than my share of FED taxes (state is another stupid thing) and some would still like to send a JDAM my way.

I know the feeling!

 

[Mike Casselton]

We're in complete agreement, I didn't mean otherwise so I apologize if it came across that way. We are a nation of immigrants and we need more, just vetted as properly as possible, legally here and productive assimilating taxpaying citizens. My only point was that those that benefit from the illegals being here are running the show, they don't want change as it will dent their pockets.

No apology needed. I agree with you.

 

[supercorndogs]

No one else will do those jobs. Too much minimum wage / welfare / disability / .gov "jobs"

They are already being moved off shore or bring mechanized.

A lot of people need to try hiring in industries below the college degree level. You have no idea the amount of f ed up unemployable people out there.

Its not a matter of no one else doing them. Often times the people in charge only want to hire their fellow countrymen. This is the cause for the racial divide in many of these business.

 

[SilentStalkr]

Its not a matter of no one else doing them. Often times the people in charge only want to hire their fellow countrymen. This is the cause for the racial divide in many of these business.

There are plenty of Americans that would do those jobs, imo. The problem is big companies don’t want to pay anything and it’s hard to compete against a slave for a job. The crazy thing is these jobs are not now only the labor type jobs. Lots of professional jobs are now being hired out overseas.

 

[spaniel]

There are plenty of Americans that would do those jobs, imo. The problem is big companies don’t want to pay anything and it’s hard to compete against a slave for a job. The crazy thing is these jobs are not now only the labor type jobs. Lots of professional jobs are now being hired out overseas.

Sadly I'm not sure I agree. I grew up on a farm and earned my money working neighboring farms, putting on roofs, and bailing hay in the summer. When I was in grad school, perhaps 8 years after I left, I was back riding around checking fields with my dad and I noted that NOBODY was stacking bales anymore. Everything was round bales or large square bales stacked mechanically. I asked him what was behind the change, was it just progress of efficiency like going from 6-row machines to 16-row or whatever they were running by then. He said no, it was simply lack of labor. Nobody wanted to do real work anymore, it was easier to collect welfare or fake disability. Even the new generation of farm kids generally had no interest in supporting their family and putting in the work on the farm. Plenty of other local companies had openings they couldn't fill because most of the applicants couldn't pass a drug test.

A few of the local larger corporate farms were busted for hiring illegals. I don't support their behavior but I can see both sides. They need labor, but the local market won't provide it at any realistic wage because they won't show up for work half the time or can't pass a drug test. Can't milk cows like that. On the flip side you have illegals willing to work their tail off for that wage. Again I don't agree with it, but I can see how it happens and it's partly the fault of the local "work" force...

 

[SilentStalkr]

Sadly I'm not sure I agree. I grew up on a farm and earned my money working neighboring farms, putting on roofs, and bailing hay in the summer. When I was in grad school, perhaps 8 years after I left, I was back riding around checking fields with my dad and I noted that NOBODY was stacking bales anymore. Everything was round bales or large square bales stacked mechanically. I asked him what was behind the change, was it just progress of efficiency like going from 6-row machines to 16-row or whatever they were running by then. He said no, it was simply lack of labor. Nobody wanted to do real work anymore, it was easier to collect welfare or fake disability. Even the new generation of farm kids generally had no interest in supporting their family and putting in the work on the farm. Plenty of other local companies had openings they couldn't fill because most of the applicants couldn't pass a drug test.

A few of the local larger corporate farms were busted for hiring illegals. I don't support their behavior but I can see both sides. They need labor, but the local market won't provide it at any realistic wage because they won't show up for work half the time or can't pass a drug test. Can't milk cows like that. On the flip side you have illegals willing to work their tail off for that wage. Again I don't agree with it, but I can see how it happens and it's partly the fault of the local "work" force...

Go back and read my post again. What I said was it was hard to compete against slave labor, basically. I was brought up doing similar work that you did as a young kid. I have no qualms about doing back breaking work. That’s not the issue. Well, I don’t like it as much as I age but that’s another story. The issue is earning a decent wage for doing it.

Let’s say that you want to charge $15 an hour for your labor on a farm. Not super cheap but not super expensive either. However, most people look at it like this. Why pay you $15/ hr when one can hire two Mexicans to do twice as much work for the same amount of money. That’s the problem! Nobody wants to pay shit anymore. And, why should they when there is abundant almost slave labor willing to do the work for a price you never would?

I think it’s a combo of both but it ultimately comes to my main point. Why would you work your ass off as an American for $7.25 an hour when you can, as you said, sit at home and get a check from the gov for doing nothing? As an American you have that choice and our stupid politicians keep paying these dumbasses to do this shit. Don’t even get me started on this. Mexicans on the other hand, are used to the work, and compared to their wages at home even $6 an hour for some of them is money money money. And they don’t have a choice but to take jobs like this because many of them can’t work legit jobs. Do you see what I am saying? It’s really a multifaceted problem but one stems from another. They feed on each other.

By the way the same model is being carried overseas and has been for awhile. Big companies are cutting Americans out of jobs left and right. I’ve worked in a ton of industries and worn many hats in my short time here. And one thing I’ve taken note of is manufacturing jobs are going overseas, professional IT work has been migrating overseas for decades now, mainly to India, design jobs are going to India, some engineering contracts are going to other countries. The list is growing all the time. Why are big companies doing this? It all goes back to my Mexican vs American example. Why pay an IT guy $60-$100k a year to do a job here when you can get the same benefit, so they think, outside in say India for $15k a year? I’ve seen tons of big companies do this and sadly what usually happens is that the jobs come back to America after some hard learned lessons but until they learn those lessons they continue to outsource. Hell in my current job, I basically do what 15-20 years ago was 7 different good paying professional jobs. Now in order to compete with the slave labor overseas, I have to be willing to do all of those jobs wrapped up into one. No, I don’t mean that many people don’t wear many hats and do more than they should do on a day to day basis. I am talking what literally used to be 7 different paid professional jobs, I now have to be willing to do as one job for one salary that, while not bad, is a fraction of what companies would have paid those 7 pros in the past.

 

[CJS-6.5]

I run a good sized farming operation, and work in 2 other businesses that service agriculture. The general consensus is that lack of good employees is the single largest problem the agriculture and frieght sectors have. Back in the '70s and into the early '90s it was a common sight to see large groups of Hispanics show up every spring and stay till late fall. Now that doesn't happen. One reason is that farming has gotten so technologically advanced that it takes months of training before an employee becomes effective. The other thing is that farming is extremely unpredictable hours and a lot of people can't deal with that. Basically the new generation wants a cushy job, 8-5 with high pay. There is only so many of these jobs. People need to stop expecting the silver platter and get of their asses and start doing the hard jobs. They will learn discipline and the rewards that come from hard work. A strong character with right principles. A person that would be worth voting into public office.

 

[deersniper]

+1. No one will work anymore. I have buddy's with landscaping businesses and they can't find people to run mowers.

 

[SilentStalkr]

+1. No one will work anymore. I have buddy's with landscaping businesses and they can't find people to run mowers.

Where at? I wouldn’t leave my reg job but I’d totally be willing to work a Friday and the weekends!

 

[Rthur]

+1. No one will work anymore. I have buddy's with landscaping businesses and they can't find people to run mowers.

Kids around here still bail in the summer, I wonder why...

R

 

[deersniper]

Not here. High school kids quit doing that for $15-20 per hour with food and Gatorade 10+ years ago. Mexicans quit doing it not long after that. Now it's all mechanized.

 

[hlee]

Automation. The gap between cheap unskilled labor and expensive unskilled labor is filled by automation. Cashiers at your local hamburger joint want $15/hr to say “Fries wit dat?” Corporate does the math and drops a kiosk in the front for $30k and those jobs disappear. Farm kids want $1/bail to toss square bales of hay onto a flatbed trailer? New equipment is initially expensive, but cheap over the long term. ‘Merican wants $100 to mow my yard once a month? Fuck that, I can mow it myself. It’s not so much that these are jobs that Americans would do if the pay was better. It is that there are a lot of jobs that would not exist if dictated wages were too high. Businesses can only pass to customer increased expenses if the customer is willing to pay for the goods or services.

Think I’m crazy? Our local grocery stores have replaced express lanes with self check lanes. You almost can’t get a checker at Home Depot or Lowe’s. Walmart and Target are the same way. Chic fil a and wataburger have phone apps that allow for ordering and skipping of The line when you get to the store. And, what was once done by an army of laborers is now done by one guy in a combine. The idea that there is a wealth of jobs for eager Americans, but for the greedy illegals, is a pipe dream.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Think I’m crazy? Our local grocery stores have replaced express lanes with self check lanes. You almost can’t get a checker at Home Depot or Lowe’s. Walmart and Target are the same way.

They are trying that here.
I find that thanks to the stupid computer systems at the self check out lanes, especially if you buy a lot of produce, you can check out way faster if you know which cashiers are good at their job and can sling groceries like a pro.

I also am not going to do my own checking and bagging and paying the same price.

I kind of like trying to make sure that there is plenty of jobs for people that just need a job starting out or want something really low pressure.

 

[Rthur]

Automation. The gap between cheap unskilled labor and expensive unskilled labor is filled by automation. Cashiers at your local hamburger joint want $15/hr to say “Fries wit dat?” Corporate does the math and drops a kiosk in the front for $30k and those jobs disappear. Farm kids want $1/bail to toss square bales of hay onto a flatbed trailer? New equipment is initially expensive, but cheap over the long term. ‘Merican wants $100 to mow my yard once a month? Fuck that, I can mow it myself. It’s not so much that these are jobs that Americans would do if the pay was better. It is that there are a lot of jobs that would not exist if dictated wages were too high. Businesses can only pass to customer increased expenses if the customer is willing to pay for the goods or services.

Think I’m crazy? Our local grocery stores have replaced express lanes with self check lanes. You almost can’t get a checker at Home Depot or Lowe’s. Walmart and Target are the same way. Chic fil a and wataburger have phone apps that allow for ordering and skipping of The line when you get to the store. And, what was once done by an army of laborers is now done by one guy in a combine. The idea that there is a wealth of jobs for eager Americans, but for the greedy illegals, is a pipe dream.

Who do you think gave the "help" the idea they need 15 bucks and hour?
Name me one country that has benefited from an overflow of cheap labor?
The peons are just the useful idiots in this scheme.

R

 

[hlee]

I’m not arguing for cheap labor. I’m just saying that thinking that a low paying job will become a high paying job if the low cost labor is eliminated is a hallucination.

 

[ArmyJerry]

its not a hallucination the laws of supply and demand create wealth and efficiency.

 

[Rthur]

I’m not arguing for cheap labor. I’m just saying that thinking that a low paying job will become a high paying job if the low cost labor is eliminated is a hallucination.

Not advocating for it.
It has a habit of moving up the pay scale.
One need look no further than skilled/semi skilled labor in construction industry on the west coast.
My bud is a highly paid IT guy.'
He has to deal with India flooding the market with H1B visas to flood the market at the benefit of the IT Businesses.

R

 

[SilentStalkr]

Automation. The gap between cheap unskilled labor and expensive unskilled labor is filled by automation. Cashiers at your local hamburger joint want $15/hr to say “Fries wit dat?” Corporate does the math and drops a kiosk in the front for $30k and those jobs disappear. Farm kids want $1/bail to toss square bales of hay onto a flatbed trailer? New equipment is initially expensive, but cheap over the long term. ‘Merican wants $100 to mow my yard once a month? Fuck that, I can mow it myself. It’s not so much that these are jobs that Americans would do if the pay was better. It is that there are a lot of jobs that would not exist if dictated wages were too high. Businesses can only pass to customer increased expenses if the customer is willing to pay for the goods or services.

Think I’m crazy? Our local grocery stores have replaced express lanes with self check lanes. You almost can’t get a checker at Home Depot or Lowe’s. Walmart and Target are the same way. Chic fil a and wataburger have phone apps that allow for ordering and skipping of The line when you get to the store. And, what was once done by an army of laborers is now done by one guy in a combine. The idea that there is a wealth of jobs for eager Americans, but for the greedy illegals, is a pipe dream.

Agreed to a point. In some ways it’s much more efficient, others not so much. The demand for higher wages is pushed by a bunch of idiots. What I’m saying is that you wouldn’t have created this problem as much without the flow of illegal, basically slave labor. There are unskilled and some skilled people that need those lower paying jobs but they aren’t going to do it as cheap as an illegal, period. Unless McDonalds is hiring illegal aliens then Americans aren’t competing with them for those jobs. They just have to realize there is no way they are going to get $15 for flipping a burger. I totally agree with you on that. Those people shot themselves in the foot on that one.

Sadly, at some point we may all be out of a job. I can see a time where most reg labor will be automated. Hell, some surgeries are even being done by machines because they are more precise than humans. Want to be guaranteed a job in the future? Go into Robotic Engineering. My point is, if the option of doing anything cheaper is there, people will take the cheaper option everytime. They would be idiots not to. But it does come at a cost. In this case unskilled American labor will have a hard time finding work. Hell some corps are hiring illegals and getting away with it. There is a chicken plant an hour or so from me that has been busted several times. They don’t care. Apparently, it’s cheaper to pay the fine. This is a problem partially created for an ineffective government.

I’m not arguing for cheap labor. I’m just saying that thinking that a low paying job will become a high paying job if the low cost labor is eliminated is a hallucination.

No but it will help drive up wages to a point. Again, you can’t compete with slave labor. If those people weren’t here then people would be forced to either hire Americans at a higher cost, figure out how to do the same thing with a machine cheaper than humans or move overseas where people are willing to work cheaper.

its not a hallucination the laws of supply and demand create wealth and efficiency.

Ding ding.

 

[tomcatfan]

My brother-in-law just went out of business. He was an arborists and did tree work. It’s crazy dangerous and hard work. His issue wasn’t with customers, his issue was 100% labor. He didn’t even care about drugs, he just wanted people to show up and work. He had such a hard time finding reliable labor, he sold everything off.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Here I think is the problem:

Thanks to the bribed greedy politicians, the big corporations of this country have destroyed all the decent formerly well paying manufacturing and skilled manufacturing jobs that used to exist in this country to where people could actually work a job and get paid a decent salary so they could support a family.

Then they destroyed the high tech industry and even the medical profession outsourcing and importing Indians.

The entry level jobs such as flipping burgers and checking out at the grocery store were originally for young people just starting out, still living with their parents who didn't need as much money & it was more about getting work experience.

Now unfortunately thanks to the evil greedy corporations and the politicians in their pockets, people are trying to actually use minimum wage jobs to pay their primary bills. In addition to illegal immigrants trying to take the same jobs and support their families.

Hence the whole thing is breaking down.

 

[BadDogPSD]

No one else will do those jobs. Too much minimum wage / welfare / disability / .gov "jobs"

They are already being moved off shore or bring mechanized.

A lot of people need to try hiring in industries below the college degree level. You have no idea the amount of f ed up unemployable people out there.

Get rid of the welfare & disability fraud & b.s. government jobs. I know, I know...

 

[Sako man]

I did notice that in almost every mainstream news report many are saying the caravan is mostly women and children, but when I watch the video feeds and imagery it's seemingly predominantly young men. And the media is not biased???? I will give a few reports some credit for reporting on what I have seen.