Why the F are we importing lumber?

[tomcatmv]

So I'm finishing up trimming out the interior of my workshop/man cave and needed a bunch of 8 foot 1x2's. so go to Home Depot cause it's close and load up a bunch, As I start cutting them to my needs on my chop saw I noticed the sku tags on the ends and most said product of Romania and some said product of Finland. I'm thinking WTH? We got no mills cranking out pine 1x2's in the USA?
Well maybe because all our forests are burning to the ground because the tree huggers won't let us do proper forest management and saw mills bad because they create jobs?
Sorry for the rant but I guess I can now brag that I've helped support a former soviet satellites economy.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Pine Beetles.....

Insect Damage in British Columbia Forests

As the size of British Columbia’s pine beetle infestation has grown, forest managers have begun to need a technique to identify damage over large areas. Relying on a variety of data sources, including satellite data, scientists from Goddard Space Flight Center conducted a survey of...

earthobservatory.nasa.gov

 

[tomcatmv]

Pine Beetles.....

Insect Damage in British Columbia Forests

As the size of British Columbia’s pine beetle infestation has grown, forest managers have begun to need a technique to identify damage over large areas. Relying on a variety of data sources, including satellite data, scientists from Goddard Space Flight Center conducted a survey of...

earthobservatory.nasa.gov

OK but they're not everywhare in the US are they?

 

[isofahunter]

Environmental Act of 1970.

 

[Redmanss]

Because we'd rather leave our coal in the ground and burn our forests instead.

Here's some great statements from Utah leaders three years ago during the Brian Head fire. Skip to 3:13 of the video to get right to it, but the whole bit is a good watch.

State and local politicians blame the spread of the Brian Head fire on environmentalists

BRIAN HEAD – State and local politicians are blaming the Brian Head fire in part on environmentalists who, they said, are responsible for the quick-growing fire that in just a week has destroyed nearly 50,000 acres of forest and several structures. “When we turned the Forest Service over to the...

www.stgeorgeutah.com

 

[Woodlanddude]

Lumber yards earlier in the summer would hardly take prime red and white oak in WV. I cannot imagine why we would be importing anything.

 

[candyx]

Trick is to use up everyone else's natural resources before tapping into your supply.

 

[rancher5]

Your buying lumber look how friggin expensive it is, lot of lumber in the US is lower quality or Environmentally protected, fire starters.

 

[10ring'r]

I remember my ol' man bitching back in the 70's (Oregon PNW), when Warehouser Lumber Co., was selling timber to Chicom and they would mill it out in International waters, keep the quality boards and then sell the crap back to us. Knotty plywood, warped/knotty 2x4's, 2x6's, etc. Mac

 

[Stevo86]

I remember my ol' man bitching back in the 70's, when Warehouser(?) Lumber Co., was selling timber to Chicom and they would mill it out in International waters, keep the quality boards and then sell the crap back to us. Knotty plywood, warped/knotty 2x4's, 2x6's, etc. Mac

Fuck China

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Fucking owls.
Fuckem.

 

[hlee]

The really good stuff is shipped off to Japan, I am told- because they will pay for it...

 

[isofahunter]

Number 1 has been exported for decade's

 

[MtnCreek]

Fucking owls.
Fuckem.

Timber jack salesman in Asheville used to have a poster on his wall that said preserve the spotted owl. Had a picture of an owl in a pickle jar.

 

[AGrizz]

Environmental Act of 1970.

Green Peace wackos. Been going on for the past 50 years. just like the nuts in Portland. When they are not doing this with Antifa and others. They are the Green Peace Nuts.

Beetle kill is only in the outside of the pine tree. Has nothing to do with the wood inside only the tree sap and bark barriers. They were told for the past 50 years to clean this shit up or it would burn. California said no. Washington said No. Oregon said No. Colorado said No. They all shut down logging companies.

No timber lines made. No timber cut. Nothing. Well here we are it is burning and will continue to burn. While we make houses from foreign lumber and metal. Stupid asses.

 

[Sieg]

Spotted Owl..... watched it devastate Oregon's Timber Industry first hand and continue to live through the impact of it. Amazing how many groups behind that movement who naively bit off their own hands. Of course they've long moved on and left the problems with the natives.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Environmentalists like the Sierra club. Government and corporate cronies creating a monoply and regulations killing the lumber industry and small mills all over California. And they made it illegal to sell a tree off your own property. Forest mismanagement and overgrowth created conditions for disease and pests like the pine beatles and something that is killing entire forests of Cedars in the Sierras.

But yeah, let's blame Climate Change and Trump.

 

[seanh]

Cheaper to import it. We've got things like insurance, sick leave, vacation, unions, regulations.

 

[Reverie Ranges]

Apparently the lefties believe that our national land's wood make the best campfire wood.
Fed organizations get sued every time they propose to cut lumber...

 

[powdahound76]

 

[TmisterE]

The really good stuff is shipped off to Japan, I am told- because they will pay for it...

This is the truth, I remember boat loads of huge old growth douglas fir logs going out of Anacortes Wa. headed for Japan.

 

[sandwarrior]

This is the truth, I remember boat loads of huge old growth douglas fir logs going out of Anacortes Wa. headed for Japan.

It's true. When I cut for my Father in law in the late '80's, the big stuff was going offshore, out to the boats. Seems like any flavor of goddamn politician is willing to forego what they say to get reelected when they can fill their pockets.

 

[pmclaine]

Because we'd rather leave our coal in the ground and burn our forests instead.

Here's some great statements from Utah leaders three years ago during the Brian Head fire. Skip to 3:13 of the video to get right to it, but the whole bit is a good watch.

State and local politicians blame the spread of the Brian Head fire on environmentalists

BRIAN HEAD – State and local politicians are blaming the Brian Head fire in part on environmentalists who, they said, are responsible for the quick-growing fire that in just a week has destroyed nearly 50,000 acres of forest and several structures. “When we turned the Forest Service over to the...

www.stgeorgeutah.com

That dude at 3:13 plus is an American.

Didnt seem to be talking shit, didnt seem willing to take shit.

Why is he now considered PNG?

We need more like him.

 

[Bigfatcock]

I bought a mill about 10 years ago. It has paid for itself several times over. People will pay out the ass for quality milled lumber. Plus, I don’t have to get lumber from Lowe’s, lol.

Not only do I make money on my own trees, but people pay me to mill their trees.

 

[Kein Mitleid]

Activism has caused so many strange outcomes but typically never the ‘desired’ outcome, and they usually move on to the next hot button topic after creating havoc in whatever space they were in so they rarely seem to be around to acknowledge the failures in their proposals.
We used to import rain forest woods, but this was deemed to be an evil exploitation and so most of the woods are now banned from import.
Now instead of selling these beautiful materials they are burned to create room for farmland.
A middle ground of proper forest management would seem a wise approach, much like what is done on private lands, but I doubt that will occur. Instead the activism is going to blame climate change and hang all of this on energy producers and many in the general public will believe it.

 

[Mr.BR]

Trick is to use up everyone else's natural resources before tapping into your supply.

You can bet your money that not the masterplan at work here but a simple economy, make profit ,source cheapest sources of goods anywhere on the globe..

 

[pmclaine]

Activism has caused so many strange outcomes but typically never the ‘desired’ outcome, and they usually move on to the next hot button topic after creating havoc in whatever space they were in so they rarely seem to be around to acknowledge the failures in their proposals.
We used to import rain forest woods, but this was deemed to be an evil exploitation and so most of the woods are now banned from import.
Now instead of selling these beautiful materials they are burned to create room for farmland.
A middle ground of proper forest management would seem a wise approach, much like what is done on private lands, but I doubt that will occur. Instead the activism is going to blame climate change and hang all of this on energy producers and many in the general public will believe it.

 

[Missalot]

We are attempting to build a home soon. My builder told me we should wait. He said he priced a 2500 sq ft home in April and the lumber quote was $31,000. The couple decided not to build at that time and recently decided they were ready. The builder priced the lumber again at current prices and it came in at $64,000. The price more than doubled in 5 months. It's all a supply/demand game. Standing timber prices are low but at retail are at an all time high. Mills are running at reduced capacity due to covid and there is a huge spurge of home projects by people out of work. Add to that a record number of home starts due to the lowest interest rates ever and you get wacky timber prices. The good news is that timber prices are expected to fall dramatically in Nov. Hoard ammo and 2x4s!

 

[308pirate]

It's true. When I cut for my Father in law in the late '80's, the big stuff was going offshore, out to the boats. Seems like any flavor of goddamn politician is willing to forego what they say to get reelected when they can fill their pockets.

If I grow timber why the fuck should I not sell it where I can get the highest premium?

Why the fuck should I sell it here when someone in Japan will pay me more?

Who here does not understand that free markets mean you're free to trade with whomever will make you the best deal?

 

[sandwarrior]

That dude at 3:13 plus is an American.

Didnt seem to be talking shit, didnt seem willing to take shit.

Why is he now considered PNG?

We need more like him.

What's aggravating is he's right and all we ever hear is that by harvesting the forest we are creating the greenhouse effect. I'm annoyed with the bird and bunny lovers as they can only see their side, not the big picture.

 

[sandwarrior]

If I grow timber why the fuck should I not sell it where I can get the highest premium?

Why the fuck should I sell it here when someone in Japan will pay me more?

Who here does not understand that free markets mean you're free to trade with whomever will make you the best deal?

First, it was Federal timber, not yours. I don't have a total problem with it, though. But, by selling back the crap they cut on the ships, they somehow avoided tarriffs. I will acknowledge also they have a limited economy in comparison to ours.

In the case of Japan, they are anything BUT free markets. They LOVE American cars and products, yet there is like a limit of 1000 total cars allowed to be imported. All kinds of products are restricted by them.

 

[pmclaine]

What's aggravating is he's right and all we ever hear is that by harvesting the forest we are creating the greenhouse effect. I'm annoyed with the bird and bunny lovers as they can only see their side, not the big picture.

If you live in the NE you will note that in the deepest woods there are stone walls.

There was never a civilization of woods dwelling stone wall builders.

Once upon a time the NE was clearcut to the extreme and where now are full forests there was once farm field and now the only memory of that time are the stone walls built by farmers plowing the cobbles from their fields.

Environmentalists are against history.

 

[308pirate]

First, it was Federal timber, not yours. I don't have a total problem with it, though. But, by selling back the crap they cut on the ships, they somehow avoided tarriffs. I will acknowledge also they have a limited economy in comparison to ours.

"Federal" timber stops being that when the harverster pays for it. It now belongs to someone. I don't know what the fuck cutting timber on a ship or tariffs has to do with anything I said. Nice strawman argument.

In the case of Japan, they are anything BUT free markets. They LOVE American cars and products, yet there is like a limit of 1000 total cars allowed to be imported. All kinds of products are restricted by them.

Whether Japan has a "free" market by your definition is completely irrelevant to me the timber seller. They want the wood I sell and they'll pay more than others. Whatever the fuck they do with cars or anything else is not my problem if I'm in the timber business. Non sequitur.

 

[MCSO1357]

We import lumber for the same reason California imports power generated by nuclear/coal from other states. Our rulers have decided that they want to both virtue signal and have lumber for building, so they ban/severely limit logging activities and then import other country's lumber.

 

[oneshot86]

my uncle was in the steel surplus business. they bought surplus steel from Europe and east Europe, everything that went on ship was encased in wood. he gave us all the most awesome wood you could ever ask for. i think they really have a good quality source and the import whatevers allowed them to sell it here

I bought a mill about 10 years ago. It has paid for itself several times over. People will pay out the ass for quality milled lumber. Plus, I don’t have to get lumber from Lowe’s, lol.

Not only do I make money on my own trees, but people pay me to mill their trees.

Which mill do you have, sometime in the future I will be buying one also

 

[TmisterE]

If I grow timber why the fuck should I not sell it where I can get the highest premium?

Why the fuck should I sell it here when someone in Japan will pay me more?

Who here does not understand that free markets mean you're free to trade with whomever will make you the best deal?

They ship the logs to Japan or China or wherever, they mill it keep the best lumber and sell the shit back to US at a premium price been doing this shit for years. There is no more old growth timber it's all been sold overseas.

 

[Go Cougs]

Free trade.

 

[Kein Mitleid]

There is old growth in British Columbia. Better forest management in the mid 19th century would have been wise. Can’t do much about that now but the demand for huge old growth timbers is reduced mainly to people willing to pay for it, which pretty much eliminates everyone who is building a stick famed house. Old growth will return if we manage it well.

If instead it burns down every few years, then we will not have it ever again and we will have virtue signalers and the awful policies they promote to thank for it.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Framing: steel vs wood.

What was a premium for steel has become a savings due to rising domestic and imported lumber pricing, to which is added the reduction in labor costs in order to work with the steel.

While I'm no treehugger or fan thereof, they do sometimes expose opportunities that both favor the environment as well construction, etc., industrial activities.

The problem is that governments tend to be anti industry, this destroying any economical positives as a rule of thumb.

Greg

 

[sandwarrior]

"Federal" timber stops being that when the harverster pays for it. It now belongs to someone. I don't know what the fuck cutting timber on a ship or tariffs has to do with anything I said. Nice strawman argument.



Whether Japan has a "free" market by your definition is completely irrelevant to me the timber seller. They want the wood I sell and they'll pay more than others. Whatever the fuck they do with cars or anything else is not my problem if I'm in the timber business. Non sequitur.

It's called an international trade agreement. You don't seem to know anything the fuck about that. And, how some countries circumvent that. It's not a simple "cut-and-dried" situation.

If you'll note I liked both Greg L and Klein Mitlands post. So, I'm not against selling high dollar timber overseas. I am for harvestation of wildland timber. It's a management tool.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Premium timber is a commodity, but is value is not just based on the highest bidder. It has tremendous value just sitting upright on its roots as well.

Commerce loses sight of this, and in some ways, the treehuggers are striving to remind us of that.

Sometimes they succeed, sometimes they fail; and the real questions are about who wins or loses overall in these tradeoffs.

Greg

 

[sandwarrior]

Premium timber is a commodity, but is value is not just based on the highest bidder. It has tremendous value just sitting upright on its roots as well.

Commerce loses sight of this, and in some ways, the treehuggers are striving to remind us of that.

Sometimes they succeed, sometimes they fail; and the real questions are about who wins or loses overall in these tradeoffs.

Greg

My point is no one has to lose. Forests can be managed without losing much effect at all. Limited and selective cutting followed by prescribed burns make wonderful tools to keep forests more natural. The bird and bunny lovers want to shut all that off if they can. Then, of course, return home at night to houses made of wood.

As to importing timber it is one big reason we have unwanted pests in our forests. Some would possibly have made their way here anyway, but hastening their arrival doesn’t help.