Why the hate for leupold ?

[Jmccracken1214]

I’ve seen a lot of guys on here that are not fans... something change with their product?

I picked up a mk5 last year and has been great. Considering another for my hunting rifle since they are so light weight but thought I’d ask what the deal was with so many haters before plunging into another mk5

 

[Dthomas3523]

Because until the mk5, (mk8 was good but much too expensive), they haven’t done very well in this market.

 

[M4guru]

Same, I’ve been super happy with mine. It isn’t a Tangent or ZCO it it isn’t $4500 either.

 

[Steel head]

Because until the mk5, (mk8 was good but much too expensive), they haven’t done very well in this market.

This!

 

[Jmccracken1214]

Because until the mk5, (mk8 was good but much too expensive), they haven’t done very well in this market.

So the mk5 is solid ?

I hope to run it for a good while.
I also have a 34mm tract toric and side by side, the glass is the same as the leupold but it’s a lot more weight

 

[Dthomas3523]

Ya, mk5 is g2g

 

[BullGear]

I think they make a decent hunting scope. Poors will use them on a precision rifle but they are beneath many here.

 

[Jmccracken1214]

I think they make a decent hunting scope. Poors will use them on a precision rifle but they are beneath many here.

 

[Rem700ADL]

I think they make a decent hunting scope. Poors will use them on a precision rifle but they are beneath many here.

Excuse me for asking,but I never heard the term POORS before.

 

[BullGear]

Excuse me for asking,but I never heard the term POORS before.

Poors relates to the working stiff who shoots. Those that can't afford the best in equipment. It's a term you should have heard many times on the Hide.

 

[hlee]

Poors- “My vx-1 ‘3 by 9’ is just as good as any fancy competition scope. Just aim top of the back out to 400 yards...”

(My new comp scope is a Mark v.)

 

[Rem700ADL]

Ok. Thanks for the replies. I just never seen the term used before.

 

[Jack's Dad]

Because they're pretentious and living on the memory that they were once good.

 

[EotS]

In regards to standing behind their products, they are great. No question, "here's a new scope, sorry about your trouble",and it's rare when their warranty is needed.
I've had them warranty 30yr old scopes that are 6 people removed from the original owner.
Quality is quite good,across all models and respective price points.

Innovation?
Yeeah, that's where they are behind. They make a bazillion scopes, and cover every hunting scenerio you'd come across.
Tactical, and competition. Not so much. They no doubt have the R&D funds available to swing for the fences and go head to head with the best, but they've let Vortex, Athlon, and Nightforce get a foothold, and reputation with literally 1/10th of the models. They could eaisly turn things around inside of a year. Why they don't...?

 

[Jigstick]

On a two way range I wouldnt choose anything other than NF, SB, or Leupold.

 

[jakelly]

Yeah, and guys started actually testing the scopes we use. I sold every Leupold I owned after I started testing my scopes. Low light performance, tracking, return to zero, etc. I couldn’t believe how poorly my beloved Gold Ring and Tactical Leupolds performed against competition that cost half as much.

The reality is Leupold has the reputation they do, because they’ve earned it. Their scopes weren’t just lagging behind in design, they were BOTTOM of the barrel in execution. Truly, it was amazing to see a Leupold hop on the humbler and track. There were some that tracked out in the wild according to their owners, but I honestly can’t remember a Mark 4 or Mark 6 that passed (I do remember Killswitch raving about the Mark 8). They weren’t just “not great”, they were awful. I keep hearing the Mark 5s are good, and I don’t think those guys are lying. But at this point I have a hard time putting any money into a Leupold.

 

[LeftyJason]

What year did they finally quit selling 2nd focal mil dot reticles with moa or iphy turrets? Seemed like they kept those around longer than others as well.

 

[beetroot]

I liked the VX6 I had and still like my VX5hd, but have been frustrated with their lack of reticle options and lack of Mil options outside the Mark scopes.

The Leupold VX5hd could be made to be the crossover FFP/Mil rifle scope of my dreams at a price I could put one on every rifle I own, but Leupold seems more interested in appealing to hunters with their SFP Fudd reticles.
The Mark 5hd gets great reviews but it's taken Leupold years to come out with some decent non horus reticles and the continued $600 upcharge for illumination just rubs me the wrong way, add to that the 35mm tube and narrow FOV the Mark5hd just doesn't appeal to me.

I always sung a lot of praise for the VX5/VX6 line but I'm going to sell my last Leupold soon and don't think I'll buy another.

 

[Stoweit]

I liked the VX6 I had and still like my VX5hd, but have been frustrated with their lack of reticle options and lack of Mil options outside the Mark scopes.

The Leupold VX5hd could be made to be the crossover FFP/Mil rifle scope of my dreams at a price I could put one on every rifle I own, but Leupold seems more interested in appealing to hunters with their SFP Fudd reticles.
The Mark 5hd gets great reviews but it's taken Leupold years to come out with some decent non horus reticles and the continued $600 upcharge for illumination just rubs me the wrong way, add to that the 35mm tube and narrow FOV the Mark5hd just doesn't appeal to me.

I always sung a lot of praise for the VX5/VX6 line but I'm going to sell my last Leupold soon and don't think I'll buy another.

I agree with all of this!

 

[DaleAGribble]

What year did they finally quit selling 2nd focal mil dot reticles with moa or iphy turrets? Seemed like they kept those around longer than others as well.

this. Pretty sure they stayed on this train embarrassingly long

 

[rustyinbend]

Ok. Thanks for the replies. I just never seen the term used before.

You are not alone.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

What year did they finally quit selling 2nd focal mil dot reticles with moa or iphy turrets? Seemed like they kept those around longer than others as well.

I don’t even understand why they would do that and who would buy it????

 

[hlee]

I don’t even understand why they would do that and who would buy it????

Pretty sure it was to fulfill a .mil contract. When you have one of those in hand, you make what the contract states...

 

[BigPrince]

They are not (succesfully)innovative, competitive, and keep making poor choices in engineering and quality.
- The few VX5 and VX6 I still have on older rifles due to nostalgia have a poor chalky finish, their glass isn't up to par, and their features aren't up to par with the competitors for the same price bracket. I ended up using Spuhr hunting rings on those mounts because the black Leupold rings I bought weren't black - closer to an aadmount cap grey, and were so bad I called Leupold to see if they were counterfeit and they confirmed they were not unfortunately. Sent them right back.
- As already mentioned - mixed turrets/reticle and iphy - yuck.
- Look at the new Mark 3s coming out and maybe you can figure out what market those features fit and how that is competitive.
- The new Deltapoint Micro looks awful. The D-evo was a flop.
- Glad they came out with the PR2 but not putting it in the full Mark 5hd line is dumb. Even their good scopes (mark 5hd) make odd engineering decisions like a 35mm main tube.

I want to like them for Nostalgia. A silver VX-3 was my first 'quality' glass purchase growing up on my first rifle I bought myself with my summer job money. My dad had a nicer Leupold on his Browning BAR 300wm. I'm having that first rifle rebuilt now and will probably put a Mark 5 5-25 PR2 on it. I'll probably do the same for the Browning when I get around to it. But everything else will be getting a Kahles, a Vortex, or a ZCO. Unfortunately, they've been surpassed and don't seem able to catch up.

 

[Newbie2020]

Innovation is always welcome and needed but at some point if you’re trailing the pack it’s simply more prudent and expedient to simply copy those successful elements implemented by the competition

 

[Baron23]

I rather like my Mk 5 5-25

I did tall target tracking test and return to zero and it seems to track accurately.

 

[Newbie2020]

Frank and Marc @Enough Said have found the MkV tracks well with numerous examples

 

[jakelly]

Or... I don't know... Listen to your customers!
Leupold has communicated in every way but full page high gloss ads that they don't want to participate in this shooting movement. Reminds me of Barnes and Remington...

 

[Supersubes]

What year did they finally quit selling 2nd focal mil dot reticles with moa or iphy turrets? Seemed like they kept those around longer than others as well.

I don’t even understand why they would do that and who would buy it????

They still do this across multiple scope lines. It’s for the “we were trained that way” and “I think in inches” Fudds.

 

[918v]

Mk5=gritty feeling parallax knob with a min of 75 yards, 10.5 mil turrets, and a very expensive illumination option.

 

[Stoweit]

They are the king of the Fudd market. Must be a lot of money in it, they sure ignore the precision market. $600 extra for illumination is ridiculous. What does the Mark 5 have over the Razor Gen ii or AMG, nothing.

 

[M4guru]

Have you ever weighed a Razor GII and a Mark 5?

But yeah, the fudd market is orders of magnitude higher.

 

[Jmccracken1214]

Have you ever weighed a Razor GII and a Mark 5?

But yeah, the fudd market is orders of magnitude higher.

Weight is why im ditching my beloved Tract TOric 34mm... my favorite glass for the money, by far... but its 1# heavier than my mk5

 

[theLBC]

meh, i have not been jaded by past products or opinions, however valid.
i only own one leupold product which is made entirely in the US (except the glass) and works perfectly for me.
that said, i have read a few articles written by "experts" that say the mark 5HD is a step above earlier products they sold at much higher prices.
it particular, they are using a type of glass for some lenses that they used to only use in much more expensive scopes.

 

[theLBC]

Mk5=gritty feeling parallax knob with a min of 75 yards, 10.5 mil turrets, and a very expensive illumination option.

mine is not gritty
i can focus in at ~25 yards at 3.6x. don't need higher mag at those distances and i am not looking at the markings anyway.
i like the turrets and rotation indicators so it is impossible to lose track of where you are, and never having to start over.
+1 on the price of illumination (didn't need it) but i also prefer the H59 reticle i can't get with some scopes.

 

[M4guru]

Weight is why im ditching my beloved Tract TOric 34mm... my favorite glass for the money, by far... but its 1# heavier than my mk5

Yeah, it’s almost half of the Razor.

Mark 5 3.6-18 is 26oz
Razor II 3-18 is 46oz

if you’re shooting a 26lb 6 Dasher in comps you probably don’t care but on my 6.5PRC mountain gun I sure do.

 

[Stoweit]

Weight is relative on precision rig. Had a gen ii, on a 18.7 pound rifle, so weight didn’t matter. If you were to hunt with it, I’d probably go AMG. I’ve looked thru the Mark 5, and I’d personally take the gen ii for prs style shooting. Seems to have taken them forever to bring the Mark 5 to market, and just doesn’t seem to be that competitive against other brands. Just my opinion. YMMV

 

[FjallJager]

In regards to standing behind their products, they are great. No question, "here's a new scope, sorry about your trouble",and it's rare when their warranty is needed.
I've had them warranty 30yr old scopes that are 6 people removed from the original owner.
Quality is quite good,across all models and respective price points.

Innovation?
Yeeah, that's where they are behind. They make a bazillion scopes, and cover every hunting scenerio you'd come across.
Tactical, and competition. Not so much. They no doubt have the R&D funds available to swing for the fences and go head to head with the best, but they've let Vortex, Athlon, and Nightforce get a foothold, and reputation with literally 1/10th of the models. They could eaisly turn things around inside of a year. Why they don't...?

20 years ago I was at the Wild Sheep show in Reno and had just come from the Burris booth to the Leupold booth.

Burris made a better 3-9 by and was $150 cheaper. I joked with the Leupold rep that they should put brass internals and use better glass and have clicks like Burris did in the VX-2. They were miffed.

They are reactive not innovative. They never have been.

Yesterday I spent almost an hour at Sportsmans looking at the difference between a Mark V 5-25 and a Nightforce 5-25.

The image was slightly better on the Mark 5, but the build quality felt cheap compared to the Nightforce ATACR.

 

[LeftyJason]

I don’t even understand why they would do that and who would buy it????

I bought it when I didn't know any better in 2011. Still have the emailed receipt from Jan 23 2011.

Still have everything but the box it came in.

Just looked under the caps. 1/2 min windage. 1/2 MOA elevation and calibrated range for 55gr 3100fps 223. It is now only on my 22 til I upgrade.

This stupid thing and this site led me to get my razor2 4.5-27 ebr7c. Only other optic I have is my strike fire red dot.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

they set up alot of new shooters for failure with that scope. I shoot with a guy with the same scope, hes disappointed as well after figuring out what it means and the difference with mils and moa

 

[Sniperwannabee]

 

[FjallJager]

Shipmate, I am not following your graph?

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Shipmate, I am not following your graph?

That was a tracking test done by Frank. 100 is perfect tracking over a 100 is over tracking under 100 is under tracking For elevation adjustments using your turrets.

Scope Tracking Test Results 2020

Follow Sniper's Hide and pick up the latest information on all things precision rifle related. Sniper's Hide Training is for the serious tactical marksman.

www.snipershide.com

 

[FjallJager]

Thank you Sir!

 

[ma smith]

Re: tracking IIRC you want ±2% (99-101 best, 98.x-101.x pass)

seeing thigns like 90, 94 etc is no good

 

[BigPrince]

Wonder which Mk V that 90 was.

 

[beetroot]

they set up alot of new shooters for failure with that scope. I shoot with a guy with the same scope, hes disappointed as well after figuring out what it means and the difference with mils and moa

Mil reticle and MOA turrets used to be normal around 2010 and the previous decade.
Until the Vortex PST came out all of the major players scopes around that $1000 mark were mixed.

All of the first scopes I owned were Mil reticles with MOA turrets, thank goodness I've sold them all over the years.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Mil reticle and MOA turrets used to be normal around 2010 and the previous decade.
Until the Vortex PST came out all of the major players scopes around that $1000 mark were mixed.

All of the first scopes I owned were Mil reticles with MOA turrets, thank goodness I've sold them all over the years.

Hmm I did not know that, seems very confusing

 

[Huskydriver]

I don’t even understand why they would do that and who would buy it????

Because that's what the army wanted back in the late 70ies early 80ies and that's what they have run until prolly mid 2012ish. SF units obviously wised up sooner but yea...mil ret with moa turrets was the military norm until just recently brah.....flipping stupid.....

 

[patrol120]

I know a lot of guys who are pissed because it's hard to find a scope with mildots and a MOA reticle...and they still believe the Leupold Mark 4 is the absolute Pinnacle in a hard use scope.

Old habits die hard.