Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

[thespecialist]

Who else here besides myself is running an AR in a wildcat chambering?


Mine: 6x45, 1/9 twist, Blackhole Weaponry 24" barrel

Nothing too exotic, but 87gr Berger VLD's run 2850+/- and sub-half MOA .002" from the lands (still fine tuning this load). 87gr Hornady BTHP's will do 10 shots of 3/4" or better with 8208 running just over 2800fps. I really haven't pushed it hard in the velocity department because I run out of case capacity using 8208 before seeing any hint of pressure signs.

 

[jeff1383]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

Interested to see a loaded round of your ammo sir.

 

[NYresq]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

do you just use once fired 223 brass and run it through a full length sizer? or can you buy 6x45 brass now?

saw a guy at my local range shooting it one day and had to ask what it was as I had never heard or seen it before. I got about a 45 minute lesson on the virtues of the 223 punched out to take 243 bullets.

 

[thespecialist]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

Jeff, here are 2 loaded rounds of 6x45 next to a loaded 223 round.

Top to bottom is; 87gr Berger VLD (2.528'), 87gr Hornady BTHP (2.350"), and 223 with a 75gr Hornady BTHP (2.260")


NYresq, it's just as simple as you said. Run once fired 223 brass through the 6x45 die and you're done. New brass can be run up just over the expander ball to size the neck up and it's ready to load. There is only one company I know of making 6x45 headstamped brass and it's $35 per 20 for nothing more than a 223 case with a different headstamp.

 

[jswhitesell619]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

What kinda ballistics are you getting from this setup? It sounds like it could be a halfway decent little varmit or precision shooter cartridge.

 

[thespecialist]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

I'm still working on getting time to really stretch it out, but it's definitely a nice round for varmints. 70gr Speer TNT's will reach 3000fps easily and flat out anchor coyotes. The best load I have with the TNT's is holding .4MOA out to 300 yards and running just shy of 3,000 fps.

I'm still playing with different powder trying to get some more speed with the 87gr VLD's, but right now Im getting .3-.4" groups at 2847fps with 8208 at 100 yards. The Hornady BTHP's are shooting 3/4" 10 round groups at 100 with boring regularity over the same charge of 8208 as the Bergers.

The 6x45 or 6mm223 is an old favorite in the benchrest community. It held a lot of records before the 6BR hit the scene. Stupid easy to load for, neck up 223 brass and you're done. I swear I think you could piss in the case and still have a load that shot good

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thespecialist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jeff, here are 2 loaded rounds of 6x45 next to a loaded 223 round.

Top to bottom is; 87gr Berger VLD (2.528'), 87gr Hornady BTHP (2.350"), and 223 with a 75gr Hornady BTHP (2.260")


NYresq, it's just as simple as you said. Run once fired 223 brass through the 6x45 die and you're done. New brass can be run up just over the expander ball to size the neck up and it's ready to load. There is only one company I know of making 6x45 headstamped brass and it's $35 per 20 for nothing more than a 223 case with a different headstamp.</div></div>

I'm assuming with the 6x45's loaded with the 87 gr. Bergers you have to single feed them? Or, how do you get around that?

 

[thespecialist]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

Yes, the Bergers are single feed only. Anything under 2.355" though I feed from 20 round magazines that are cut out at the front to allow 5 rounds to feed from them.

Most all of the 87gr and under 6mm pills can be also loaded to 2.26" to feed from an unmodified magazine, but you lose some case capacity with them seated that far in.

The up side, a 75gr 6mm bullet is a good bit shorter than a 75gr 223 bullet. So even with them at standard mag length you still have room to make it scream. Where it really shines is with the 75 to 95gr bullets that choke the 223 up. I'm hoping to have these BTHP's and VLD's over 3,000 fps with 2000MR. I might try some 95gr VLD's as well once I'm happy with the 87's. If I can get them up to 2800 or so I'd be extremely happy.

 

[Powder_Burns]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

I made a 7.62x40 but since everyone is playing with 300BLK I scrapped the project. The 6.8 SPC case necked down to 6mm sounds fun though.

 

[dk17hmr]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

I had a couple 6x45s at one time and a 300 whisper for awhile. I killed several antelope with the whisper and alot of predators and varmints with the 6x45's. I sold or traded them all away. Im sticking with the 223's and 6.8spc's from now on.....unless I find a deal on a 25-223 barrel. The 6.8s do everything I ever wanted p-dogs to elk.

My old 6x45 with a 24" barrel

Heres what the whisper looked like.

 

[knockemdown]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

Not really a wildcat, but it is pretty wild
DTECH .223WSSM, 1:8, 22" Shilen Select Match
65gr Gamekings @ 3540fps, 75BHTPs @ 3325.

DTECH .20TAC
craZZZee accurate little rifle, 1:10, 23" Shilen Select Match
35Bergers @ 4K runnin' hot, 39 Blitzkings @ 3850

DTECH 6x45
Real nice little 7 lb. carbine, 1:12, 16" SUM
60gr Sierras, or 55NBtips @ 2900, good coyote meds...

DTECH .25DTI (6.8SPC, necked down & 30deg improved)
All around, my favorite hunting rig.
18" 1:10 Shilen Select Match, mid length gas system.
90gr Gamekings @ 3K, perfect woods deer rifle...

And flat anchors coyote with 75Vmaxs @ 3175...

That .25DTI is just a super all around performer, burning only ~31gr. of powder. Light recoil, easy to carry, very accurate and a hammer on game.
In just the last year and a half, the .25DTI have been nothing short of a joy to hunt with. Got it some new glass for this year, since it'll be getting plenty of hunting time...

 

[Captramrod01]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

Awesome rifles knockemdown. I've been thinking about a 6 dti upper for quite a while now. I should probably just order it since the wait times are so long.

 

[blksno]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

I might as well throw up my WSSM and SAUM. Not wildcats,but not common either.

 

[BIPMaster]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

knockemdown, you have some fine rifles. Some extremely hot loads as well.

 

[knockemdown]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

Thank you, sir! I do gots a heavy foot, but I found both the Wizzer and .20TAC both shoot best running real hard. The .25DTI is extremely tolerant & accurate with several powder/bullet combos.
All get fed moly'ed boolits, if that makes any difference?

Capt, thanks. From the growing data compiled on the DTIs, the .257 variant will push a 75gr pill to almost the same speed as a 75grainer runs in 6mm, and from 4" LESS barrel (18 vs. 22"). If you'd prefer a shorter rifle to tote, that may be a factor to consider.
The 6mmDTI is a fine cartridge in it's own right and designed around pushing the lighter weight bullets for varmint/predator hunters. The 6mmDTI has a slightly shorter neck and a bit more case capacity than the excellent 6WOA wildcat, which was designed around throwing the heavies...

 

[thespecialist]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

knockemdown, you sir have some fine taste in rifles. The 223WSM is on my short list, as well as the 6WOA or a variant of it.

The 6x45 was my first dip into the wildcat pool, figured I'd start with one that had a little tried and true data around for it. Now I'm itching for another one to add.

 

[GLShooter]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

I can play but I need to take more pics in the next few days.

Here is my first contribution to the thread. 20 Tactical. Upper by Dtech, 24" 1:10 Shilen. Nikon 6X18 SF for the glass. Lower is an OLY I did with a Timney 3 Pound trigger, Magpul selector and trigger guard, ACE Skeleton and a Wilson bolt release. This is the first lower I ever built. It had hidden in my gun safe through the entire AWB and decided it was safe to come out when it went off into the sunset.

And home on the range.

Greg

 

[thespecialist]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

And a contribution from the person who got me through load development for the 6x45. You're holding back a few GL

 

[Vmaxed]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

Here is my 6x45. 18" BHW barrel. Shoots 75gr Vmaxes really well.

 

[GLShooter]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

Here is my one for the day. This is a 20 LBC wildcat made up by Black Hole. It is a 6.5 Grendel/264 LBC necked to 20 caliber. This one is not the easiest one on the block. Four steps to neck the brass down and then turning the necks. Velocity on the 10: tube is the same as I get out of a 25" 204 Ruger. A 24" is a step up. This was prototype for testing. I'm still not done with it.

The BHW barrel is poly rifled and shows virtually no fouling when spiting out those tiny pills at hyper speed.

Here is the rifle set up for testing prior to me dropping a scope on it.

The first loads I made up. I uses 6 MM and 22 PPC Redding bushing dies to make the cases along with my Sinclair turning tools.

First three shots out of the barrel.

I shot the 55 grain Bergers as a favor to a young man that wants to try it on long range coyotes. It did pretty well with exactly zero load development.

This one is the smallest of the LBC family. It will make a good PD round and is a learning tool deluxe for a serious wildcatter. I have a 243 LBC on order that will be a long range laser that I will post up once I start working with it.

Greg

 

[knockemdown]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GLShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is my one for the day. This is a 20 LBC wildcat made up by Black Hole. It is a 6.5 Grendel/264 LBC necked to 20 caliber. This one is not the easiest one on the block. Four steps to neck the brass down and then turning the necks. Velocity on the 10: tube is the same as I get out of a 25" 204 Ruger. A 24" is a step up. This was prototype for testing. I'm still not done with it.

The BHW barrel is poly rifled and shows virtually no fouling when spiting out those tiny pills at hyper speed.

Here is the rifle set up for testing prior to me dropping a scope on it.

The first loads I made up. I uses 6 MM and 22 PPC Redding bushing dies to make the cases along with my Sinclair turning tools.

First three shots out of the barrel.

I shot the 55 grain Bergers as a favor to a young man that wants to try it on long range coyotes. It did pretty well with exactly zero load development.

This one is the smallest of the LBC family. It will make a good PD round and is a learning tool deluxe for a serious wildcatter. I have a 243 LBC on order that will be a long range laser that I will post up once I start working with it.

Greg </div></div>

That is pretty badazz!
What is the capacity of the finished case?
Is .226" the loaded neck dia, or chamber dimension?
How are those thin necks (.010-.011") surviving in a brass munchin' gasser?
I've turned some necks on WSSM brass, but that shit is so thick they're still .021" with a full cleanup!

I'd be curious to see what those 55 would run from a short tube.

VERY cool project!!!

 

[GLShooter]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

[/quote]

That is pretty badazz!
What is the capacity of the finished case?
Is .226" the loaded neck dia, or chamber dimension?
How are those thin necks (.010-.011") surviving in a brass munchin' gasser?
I've turned some necks on WSSM brass, but that shit is so thick they're still .021" with a full cleanup!

I'd be curious to see what those 55 would run from a short tube.

VERY cool project!!!

[/quote]

Capacity is 33.2 grains of H2O.

226 is loaded neck diameter to get me a decent release. This chamber is tight on the necks. A no-turn would have been better but this one slipped through the cracks. The 243 LBC I'm getting is no turn.

So far the necks are doing fine with five-six loads on each case.

Velocity was 3288 out of the 20". I made no attempt to even work this one up. The load could be bumped a tad and done OK IMHO. A 24" is the only way to go with this one as it would smoke a 204 with the longer barrel big time.

And yes that WSSM stuff is thick!! MY 25 WSSM must have enough brass in there to make a miniature Liberty Bell!!

Greg

 

[petesp]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

Anyone running one of the 6mm AR Turbo's?

 

[distantfoe]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peters</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone running one of the 6mm AR Turbo's?</div></div>

I'm running something similar, the 6mm rat. It's my coyote rig running 87gr vmax @ 3050fps out of a 22" barrel. It's killed a lot of coyotes and a bunch of other shit.

 

[thespecialist]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jswhitesell619</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What kinda ballistics are you getting from this setup? It sounds like it could be a halfway decent little varmit or precision shooter cartridge. </div></div>

Figured I'd give an update to this question.

I finally had the chance today to stretch the 6x45's legs a bit. At the same time, I'm seriously doubting the accuracy of my chrono. The velocity recorded by my chrono for the 87gr BTHP's over IMR8208 is an average (20 rounds) of 2821. At 400 yards I needed to come up 6.4MOA to hit dead on elevation wise today from a 100yd zero.

That puts the muzzle velocity closer to 2925 according to JBM, 104fps faster than the chrono gave at 15'. It printed a 4 shot group that was pretty damned decent considering the nut behind the trigger. I honestly wasn't sure I was even hitting the target board so I stopped at 4 rounds and walked down range to see exactly where my rounds were landing. Ended up being 4 rounds just a touch over 3" wide and .92" of vertical dispersion.

 

[steve123]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Peters</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone running one of the 6mm AR Turbo's? </div></div>

This is the 40 degree shoulder version.

I was running 105's at 2900fps but slowed them down to 2740 fps to save the barrel which has 2000+ rounds down it now.

26" 8 twist Krieger

6.5 G on left. Creating false shoulder from 6.5G. Formed on right.

223 on left

10 shot group on right during load development.

 

[GrantB]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

Steve123,

What did you do to fit the CSS stock on the AR.
I have an RTM model from Gary and if I could use the same stock it would make my auto feel like my bolt gun.

When you were running 2900 fps how did the brass hold up. I've heard that its hard to get that velocity without getting more than 2 reloadings on brass

 

[steve123]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GrantB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Steve123,

What did you do to fit the CSS stock on the AR.
I have an RTM model from Gary and if I could use the same stock it would make my auto feel like my bolt gun.

When you were running 2900 fps how did the brass hold up. I've heard that its hard to get that velocity without getting more than 2 reloadings on brass </div></div>

It's no biggy to put the CSS stock kit on. Long to describe, easy to do.

There were maybe 8-10 reloadings on the old batch of Lapua brass.

I opened up a new 8lb jug of H-4895 and tried the same load (30.2 grains/105 Amax) with a newly formed batch of Lapua brass and the pressure was too high. This time around the clear winner for accuracy was a very light load (28.4) at 2740 fps. Oh well, maybe I can stretch the barrel life to 3500 rounds. It only groups 3/4" now but hasn't malfunctioned since I worked up the new load.

 

[GrantB]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

Is that a special tube and cheek rest or can they be purchased somewhere.

 

[steve123]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

The tube is is standard AR and the cheek rest fastens with allen screws to the tube. You'd have to contact CSS to find out if he'd sell the items separately from the kit.

 

[Trental]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

Alright, technically not a true wildcat, but if Remington doesn't get off their ass and start making brass for this bitch I'll be making .30 RAR brass from 450 Bushmaster which will be a big pain in the ass.

Remington R-15 in .30 RAR, which is kind of close to a .30BR except the case is a little larger in diameter than the .308win family of cases (.500" vs .491"). It's a fat stubby cartridge that fits single stack in standard ar-15 magazines. With 150gr Nosler BTs I am at 92%-95% of .308 ballistics. The upper is a hybrid of AR-10 and AR-15 parts, and the lower is a standard AR-15. It's a fun rifle and is my deer/pig gun. I would love to neck this bastard down to 6.5.

7mm-08 on the left and .223 on the right. Three middle cartridges are .30RAR with different projectiles.

 

[Kouki]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

Im going to have to read up on wildcat ammo. Seems pretty cool.

 

[6.5x61Super]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

...my 6PDK = 6.8SPC necked down to a 6mm


-------> AR-15 6PDK

 

[GLShooter]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

This is my first 6X6.8. Standard shoulder angle just necked down. This is a 20" gun.

Here are some of the rounds side by side with 6X45's I shoot also with the 87's.

I liked it so much that I ordered up a 24" version and have been shooting it in F-Class. It really does well for me. Multiple sup -.75 MOA groups. The 75 VMAX hauls along at 3330 and doesn't even break stride. The 87 Hornady will run an easy 3100.

Greg

 

[scatterbrains]

Re: Wildcat AR's..........let's see 'em

Heres my 25-223 its a necked up to .257" shortened 2mm.

I'm getting 2700+fps with an 85gr nosler ballistic tip, they destroy groundhogs.

It shoots good and getting better.These are actually 75gr HP's not the 85gr NBT