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Suppressors Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
- Thread starter jrhtx
- Start date
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
i once visited my gunplumber when he was inside a les baer.....trying to revive what damage was done as it was eating itself and making metal.....
i know it was the only Baer i had seen this way....but it kinda turned me off........AND its my self centered autocratic narrow-mined way of thinking .
i once visited my gunplumber when he was inside a les baer.....trying to revive what damage was done as it was eating itself and making metal.....
i know it was the only Baer i had seen this way....but it kinda turned me off........AND its my self centered autocratic narrow-mined way of thinking .
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
I wouldn't own either. Both are not true custom guns and not worth the price they're asking.
Find a good gunsmith and have him or her build you a gun from the ground up just for you. It will be cheaper than a Wilson or a Baer and it'll be exactly what you want, not a "cookie cutter" custom.
The RRA 1911s were cheaper than Baer or Wilson Combat and just as nice. Too bad they're no more.
Personally I've shot a Wilson and it was no nicer than my Kimber. It was perhaps the first time when I was glad to be on a beer budget or I would have spent way too much money on something that wasn't worth the money.
I'd rather have one of Bob Miller's guns over any Baer or Wilson.
I wouldn't own either. Both are not true custom guns and not worth the price they're asking.
Find a good gunsmith and have him or her build you a gun from the ground up just for you. It will be cheaper than a Wilson or a Baer and it'll be exactly what you want, not a "cookie cutter" custom.
The RRA 1911s were cheaper than Baer or Wilson Combat and just as nice. Too bad they're no more.
Personally I've shot a Wilson and it was no nicer than my Kimber. It was perhaps the first time when I was glad to be on a beer budget or I would have spent way too much money on something that wasn't worth the money.
I'd rather have one of Bob Miller's guns over any Baer or Wilson.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
I have owned both. Both shot better than me.
The tolerances on the Baer, however, were so tight you could barely rack the slide. I am not exaggerating.
Edge to the Wilson.
I have owned both. Both shot better than me.
The tolerances on the Baer, however, were so tight you could barely rack the slide. I am not exaggerating.
Edge to the Wilson.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
I've carried Baer in one form or another pretty much daily for the better part of a decade. When you read about break in - that is a misnomer. It should read 'Hey put 1k down the pipe to make sure this runs like it should. If not call us back and deal with our lousy CS'. Break in with a Baer - like getting it loose enough to sling shot - can be in excess of 15k. Hard fit is an understatement. I met a guy at a match with 175k and said the frame to slide fit was still tight and we wondered how many rounds would have to be put through it before it would need a pinch or rails. Regardless, samples of one mean nothing. They are very accurate but that isn't the most important thing for a carry gun. His bluing is thin and wears quickly. His paint is so so - basically on par with most of what the industry offers. It will wear better than his blue for sure but when it flakes it is just bare metal. The single biggest problem with LB is Les. He is such a turn off to deal with and so full of shit that it almost isn't worth it. On the other hand, assuming you get one that is 100% out of the box (and the odds strongly favor this) you will have probably the best dollar for dollar value in semi custom 1911s (assuming you get a TRS or a CC or a P2).
At the end of the day I think you have to really ask yourself 3 questions:
- Should I really carrying a Glock 17 / 19?
- What does a LB do that my Wilsons don't?
- Do I want to deal with Les?
Good luck
I've carried Baer in one form or another pretty much daily for the better part of a decade. When you read about break in - that is a misnomer. It should read 'Hey put 1k down the pipe to make sure this runs like it should. If not call us back and deal with our lousy CS'. Break in with a Baer - like getting it loose enough to sling shot - can be in excess of 15k. Hard fit is an understatement. I met a guy at a match with 175k and said the frame to slide fit was still tight and we wondered how many rounds would have to be put through it before it would need a pinch or rails. Regardless, samples of one mean nothing. They are very accurate but that isn't the most important thing for a carry gun. His bluing is thin and wears quickly. His paint is so so - basically on par with most of what the industry offers. It will wear better than his blue for sure but when it flakes it is just bare metal. The single biggest problem with LB is Les. He is such a turn off to deal with and so full of shit that it almost isn't worth it. On the other hand, assuming you get one that is 100% out of the box (and the odds strongly favor this) you will have probably the best dollar for dollar value in semi custom 1911s (assuming you get a TRS or a CC or a P2).
At the end of the day I think you have to really ask yourself 3 questions:
- Should I really carrying a Glock 17 / 19?
- What does a LB do that my Wilsons don't?
- Do I want to deal with Les?
Good luck
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
I own Wilsons and I've fired quite a few Baers. Both will serve you well.
Once saw a IDPA shooter tap, rack and fire and the gun locked up. Turns out he had a squib. He returned it to Baer who removed both bullets from the bore and performed whatever repairs were necessary. I wonder how many handguns would have self-destructed?
I own Wilsons and I've fired quite a few Baers. Both will serve you well.
Once saw a IDPA shooter tap, rack and fire and the gun locked up. Turns out he had a squib. He returned it to Baer who removed both bullets from the bore and performed whatever repairs were necessary. I wonder how many handguns would have self-destructed?
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When you read about break in - that is a misnomer. It should read 'Hey put 1k down the pipe to make sure this runs like it should. If not call us back and deal with our lousy CS'.</div></div>
Hmmm. Sounds like a brand I'm familiar with.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When you read about break in - that is a misnomer. It should read 'Hey put 1k down the pipe to make sure this runs like it should. If not call us back and deal with our lousy CS'.</div></div>
Hmmm. Sounds like a brand I'm familiar with.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wouldn't own either. Both are not true custom guns and not worth the price they're asking.
Find a good gunsmith and have him or her build you a gun from the ground up just for you. It will be cheaper than a Wilson or a Baer and it'll be exactly what you want, not a "cookie cutter" custom. </div></div>
I agree, but I can find either (LB or W) for about $1K less than a custom build right now. I like the 5" Springfield Lightweight on the SH sale board. Just a little more than I wanted to get into it.
I have been carrying a Robar G26, just thinking about going back to a 1911. Weather here makes it hard to hide a full size 1911, especially in the summer. That was why I picked up the G26.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wouldn't own either. Both are not true custom guns and not worth the price they're asking.
Find a good gunsmith and have him or her build you a gun from the ground up just for you. It will be cheaper than a Wilson or a Baer and it'll be exactly what you want, not a "cookie cutter" custom. </div></div>
I agree, but I can find either (LB or W) for about $1K less than a custom build right now. I like the 5" Springfield Lightweight on the SH sale board. Just a little more than I wanted to get into it.
I have been carrying a Robar G26, just thinking about going back to a 1911. Weather here makes it hard to hide a full size 1911, especially in the summer. That was why I picked up the G26.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
Have you looked at the Springfield Professional? Sounds pretty nice for a carry 1911. I've waited about a year now for two and expect to get mine soon.
Anyway, I own a Wilson and two Ed Browns. If I were in your shoes, I would consider getting a Dan Wesson (which I also own) Combat Commander (with the bobtail) and turn it over to a respected 1911 smith to make it purrrrfect and just the way I wanted it.
I've got a good suspicion you would be even, or even dollars ahead, and happier in the long run.
Good luck, and report back what you decide to do.
Have you looked at the Springfield Professional? Sounds pretty nice for a carry 1911. I've waited about a year now for two and expect to get mine soon.
Anyway, I own a Wilson and two Ed Browns. If I were in your shoes, I would consider getting a Dan Wesson (which I also own) Combat Commander (with the bobtail) and turn it over to a respected 1911 smith to make it purrrrfect and just the way I wanted it.
I've got a good suspicion you would be even, or even dollars ahead, and happier in the long run.
Good luck, and report back what you decide to do.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
You could get a Fusion frame and slide built / build yourself, for less than what either the WC or LB cost, and get all the features you want. Imo, most "Semi"-custom 1911's arent really that much better or special than say a SA TRP or other well put together 1911, its not easy to tell the difference until you get into customs from guys like Rogers or any of the other smiths from the LTW forums.
You could get a Fusion frame and slide built / build yourself, for less than what either the WC or LB cost, and get all the features you want. Imo, most "Semi"-custom 1911's arent really that much better or special than say a SA TRP or other well put together 1911, its not easy to tell the difference until you get into customs from guys like Rogers or any of the other smiths from the LTW forums.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
Wilson and Baer are both overpriced for what you get. They are good guns, just not on part with a true custom costing similar amounts. I've seen more than one Baer chew itself up, but I've seen problems with wilson's too. That and both are currently using cost cutting practices they were not even a couple years ago, but prices have done nothing but go up. Nighthawk is probably the best bang for your buck right now in the semi-custom arena with a proven record. Fusion also is supposed to build a pretty good gun for the price, but I have no actual experience with them and they are pretty new on the scene. Some seem more interested in building shotguns, rifles, AR's etc. than quality handguns anymore.
There are lots of great 1911 builders who are not the "top dollar names" that can build a top line 1911 for around $3000, less in some cases depending on the options you want.
Volkmann is one.
Another option is buy a base model gun, and throw $1000-1500 of custom parts/work into it. You'll end up with a gun costing somewhere well less than $2500 and probably as good most anything out there.
1911's can be a finicky weapon, some won't run 100% will all ammo choices, in fact I'd say most won't. Many makers only test their guns with FMJ rounds when what really matters is how they run with carry rounds.
Also be very weary of any company that tells you to put 500-1000 rounds through it as "breakin" the translation of which is "we didn't fit it right and/or we didn't prep/polish/finish the parts properly" and they are expecting you to do those final prep steps with $300-400 of ammo before they will help you. It's just laziness on their part. Yes parts will break in and mate some over time, but they should be fit and finished enough to start with that the gun is still reliable.
The springfield professional is very well liked by for lack of a better word professionals that rely on their 1911's. Wait time is brutal though, most guys are waiting a year or better.
Wilson and Baer are both overpriced for what you get. They are good guns, just not on part with a true custom costing similar amounts. I've seen more than one Baer chew itself up, but I've seen problems with wilson's too. That and both are currently using cost cutting practices they were not even a couple years ago, but prices have done nothing but go up. Nighthawk is probably the best bang for your buck right now in the semi-custom arena with a proven record. Fusion also is supposed to build a pretty good gun for the price, but I have no actual experience with them and they are pretty new on the scene. Some seem more interested in building shotguns, rifles, AR's etc. than quality handguns anymore.
There are lots of great 1911 builders who are not the "top dollar names" that can build a top line 1911 for around $3000, less in some cases depending on the options you want.
Volkmann is one.
Another option is buy a base model gun, and throw $1000-1500 of custom parts/work into it. You'll end up with a gun costing somewhere well less than $2500 and probably as good most anything out there.
1911's can be a finicky weapon, some won't run 100% will all ammo choices, in fact I'd say most won't. Many makers only test their guns with FMJ rounds when what really matters is how they run with carry rounds.
Also be very weary of any company that tells you to put 500-1000 rounds through it as "breakin" the translation of which is "we didn't fit it right and/or we didn't prep/polish/finish the parts properly" and they are expecting you to do those final prep steps with $300-400 of ammo before they will help you. It's just laziness on their part. Yes parts will break in and mate some over time, but they should be fit and finished enough to start with that the gun is still reliable.
The springfield professional is very well liked by for lack of a better word professionals that rely on their 1911's. Wait time is brutal though, most guys are waiting a year or better.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
I have owned both and I would stay away from the LB. They are too tight and it will take another large amount of your money in ammo to get it reliable. And you will have so many fits with it before it gets to that point you will always wonder if it is going to go south again at any time.
Wilsons are my go to 1911 but with the pirce jump in the last year I don't think I will be buying any more. I have 3 and all of them have been flawless in performance but new prices have made me look back to spending on a basic model and paying a smith to tune it up.
Go find you a old goverment model and hand a good smith 1K and you will have what you want.
I have owned both and I would stay away from the LB. They are too tight and it will take another large amount of your money in ammo to get it reliable. And you will have so many fits with it before it gets to that point you will always wonder if it is going to go south again at any time.
Wilsons are my go to 1911 but with the pirce jump in the last year I don't think I will be buying any more. I have 3 and all of them have been flawless in performance but new prices have made me look back to spending on a basic model and paying a smith to tune it up.
Go find you a old goverment model and hand a good smith 1K and you will have what you want.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
I like the Baers and will have more of them. The Commanches are an ideal 1911-style pistol for carrry, IMHO.
Having said that, I agree that the blueing is thin and Les is a horse's rear in every sense of the term. I was at a shop in Mt. Juliet, TN, and they had a large selection of Ed Browns and Wilson 1911's. I asked him why he did not carry Les Baers. "I would not deal with that arrogant !!!###$$$% if I had to."
First of the year, I will hold my nose and order another Baer.
I like the Baers and will have more of them. The Commanches are an ideal 1911-style pistol for carrry, IMHO.
Having said that, I agree that the blueing is thin and Les is a horse's rear in every sense of the term. I was at a shop in Mt. Juliet, TN, and they had a large selection of Ed Browns and Wilson 1911's. I asked him why he did not carry Les Baers. "I would not deal with that arrogant !!!###$$$% if I had to."
First of the year, I will hold my nose and order another Baer.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nashlaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the Baers.... </div></div>
I agree, I've owned and shot both extensively, the Baers are built/fit for long term durability, very impressive…. and you don't have to be concerned with powered metal/molded parts like you do with some of the other big name 45s. My competition Baers are still shooting very tight groups after over 30,000 rounds. They are not ready to be issued for combat/service use out of the box though, the "final fitting" is done as you shoot your first several thousand rounds..... really to tight for a service gun if you ask me.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nashlaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I like the Baers.... </div></div>
I agree, I've owned and shot both extensively, the Baers are built/fit for long term durability, very impressive…. and you don't have to be concerned with powered metal/molded parts like you do with some of the other big name 45s. My competition Baers are still shooting very tight groups after over 30,000 rounds. They are not ready to be issued for combat/service use out of the box though, the "final fitting" is done as you shoot your first several thousand rounds..... really to tight for a service gun if you ask me.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
Out of Wilson and Baer, I would pick Wilson 10 times out of 10 for a carry piece. I have had a few Wilsons, and currently have a Sentinel Compact for carry, and it is everything a carry-1911 should be. (It could be a little lighter...)
The Baers can be nice, but I think that they are hot/cold with quality, and Les is known for his...charm.
Out of Wilson and Baer, I would pick Wilson 10 times out of 10 for a carry piece. I have had a few Wilsons, and currently have a Sentinel Compact for carry, and it is everything a carry-1911 should be. (It could be a little lighter...)
The Baers can be nice, but I think that they are hot/cold with quality, and Les is known for his...charm.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
I just ordered a Fusion 1911. I called, spoke to the owner Bob, told him exactly what I wanted and got a quote back for about $1650. I think he told me about a 14 week wait so I will let you know what I think when it shows up. From what I have read, I have nothing to worry about. Nothing but good reviews.
Link
I just ordered a Fusion 1911. I called, spoke to the owner Bob, told him exactly what I wanted and got a quote back for about $1650. I think he told me about a 14 week wait so I will let you know what I think when it shows up. From what I have read, I have nothing to worry about. Nothing but good reviews.
Link
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
I own a Les Baer TRS finished in black Baercoat and with the 1.5" guarantee. It has run like a sewing machine since the day I bought it. Have had 5 misfeeds which were attributable to a bad magazine. I traded a Kimber Desert Warrior plus cash for it and have not missed the Kimber at all. Fit and finish is much better on the LB. Have no experience with the Wilson's other than handling them at a gun show. Don't think you can go wrong with either.
I own a Les Baer TRS finished in black Baercoat and with the 1.5" guarantee. It has run like a sewing machine since the day I bought it. Have had 5 misfeeds which were attributable to a bad magazine. I traded a Kimber Desert Warrior plus cash for it and have not missed the Kimber at all. Fit and finish is much better on the LB. Have no experience with the Wilson's other than handling them at a gun show. Don't think you can go wrong with either.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
Thanks for the great comments.
Some have suggested a Springfield Pro. I have a Bureau model, pre Pro, but it won't come out of the safe as a carry gun.
I picked up a Springfield 5" lightweight planning on sending it off for custom work and got sidetracked. Still sitting on the shelf. Maybe I need to dust it off.
Thanks for the great comments.
Some have suggested a Springfield Pro. I have a Bureau model, pre Pro, but it won't come out of the safe as a carry gun.
I picked up a Springfield 5" lightweight planning on sending it off for custom work and got sidetracked. Still sitting on the shelf. Maybe I need to dust it off.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
The best thing going for Wilson is their customer service. It's right up there with Dillon and LaRue. And, the best thing going for Les Baer is their 5" TRS. It is built right. I think Clint Smith requires things to work if they are going to have his logo. Last I saw, they were around $1700 and I have seen a few used selling for great prices lately. For a carry piece, look at the Stinger. Commander frame and officers grip. I bought one used that ran fine but would not slingshot the slide. I sent it off to John Harrison in Georgia and he made it right. All for hundreds of dollars less than a custom build. For a custom build, I would love take the Larry Vickers 1911 class and build my own. There are so many good choices in the 1911 market. Have fun choosing.
The best thing going for Wilson is their customer service. It's right up there with Dillon and LaRue. And, the best thing going for Les Baer is their 5" TRS. It is built right. I think Clint Smith requires things to work if they are going to have his logo. Last I saw, they were around $1700 and I have seen a few used selling for great prices lately. For a carry piece, look at the Stinger. Commander frame and officers grip. I bought one used that ran fine but would not slingshot the slide. I sent it off to John Harrison in Georgia and he made it right. All for hundreds of dollars less than a custom build. For a custom build, I would love take the Larry Vickers 1911 class and build my own. There are so many good choices in the 1911 market. Have fun choosing.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
Double Star!!
They make a fantastic 1911 that is what it should be like.
Match grade parts, hand assembled, all at around $1050. No MiM. I repeat, no MiM.
Fantastic shooter.
Give them a look.
Double Star!!
They make a fantastic 1911 that is what it should be like.
Match grade parts, hand assembled, all at around $1050. No MiM. I repeat, no MiM.
Fantastic shooter.
Give them a look.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
Like others here I have owned Baer, Wilson, Nighthawk, Brown as well as a Springer Pro. The Pro is my favorite 1911 out of them all while the two Baer TRS pistols were my least favorite.
The tight tolerances of the Baers didn't bug me too much as both guns ran fine, but the overall attention to detail was lacking. One of my TRS pistols had numerous sharp edges that would create hot spots after just a few rounds. Also, the bluing is very thin so there is little protection if you are carrying the gun regularly.
I like Wilsons and still own a Wilson Professional. The pistol is well made and runs like a top. Wilson has supposedly gotten away from MIM parts in recent years which I think is a good thing. My only real complaint with Wilson is the rising prices. His guns are just too pricey for what you get. Typically you can buy a Brown with similar specs for a few hundred less than a Wilson.
I recently ordered another fullsize 1911 myself. I went with a Volkmann. His guns appear to be a cut above and price competitively with Wilsons. Also, I was able to get the gun customized just like I want it. Current wait time is about three to four months.
Good luck in your search.
Like others here I have owned Baer, Wilson, Nighthawk, Brown as well as a Springer Pro. The Pro is my favorite 1911 out of them all while the two Baer TRS pistols were my least favorite.
The tight tolerances of the Baers didn't bug me too much as both guns ran fine, but the overall attention to detail was lacking. One of my TRS pistols had numerous sharp edges that would create hot spots after just a few rounds. Also, the bluing is very thin so there is little protection if you are carrying the gun regularly.
I like Wilsons and still own a Wilson Professional. The pistol is well made and runs like a top. Wilson has supposedly gotten away from MIM parts in recent years which I think is a good thing. My only real complaint with Wilson is the rising prices. His guns are just too pricey for what you get. Typically you can buy a Brown with similar specs for a few hundred less than a Wilson.
I recently ordered another fullsize 1911 myself. I went with a Volkmann. His guns appear to be a cut above and price competitively with Wilsons. Also, I was able to get the gun customized just like I want it. Current wait time is about three to four months.
Good luck in your search.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
I have a Wilson CQB 45acp that I bought new around 5 years ago. I've shot probably in excess of 5000+ rounds through that pistol....with....2 failures. The 2 failures I had were ammo related and they didn't put my pistol out of service. I don't have any experience with the Baer's so I can't comment one way or the other on them. What I can comment on is my CQB (don't want to start a war here or anything) has had less failures than my Glock 17 has.
I have a Wilson CQB 45acp that I bought new around 5 years ago. I've shot probably in excess of 5000+ rounds through that pistol....with....2 failures. The 2 failures I had were ammo related and they didn't put my pistol out of service. I don't have any experience with the Baer's so I can't comment one way or the other on them. What I can comment on is my CQB (don't want to start a war here or anything) has had less failures than my Glock 17 has.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
I have owned 6 Les Baer's and all were fine. Accuracy is amazing. All but one have ran perfectly, out of the box. One took a bit of shooting to loosen up. Mostly 1.5" guns and no problem with any kind of stoppage. I would guess about 20,000 rounds down range total for the 6 guns. Mostly Baer coat finish. I have talked to Les several times and no problem at all. If I had one complaint, it would be that they are not really open to a custom gun. You cannot change much and they are apparently anti suppressor, as they really clam up when you try to get a threaded barrel. I would not trade a grip screw out of a LB for any Kimber ever made. No comparison. I do not know about "slingshoting the slide" or any of that stuff. I just shoot what needs shot and put it back in the holster. No problems. And they really do shoot up to the stated standard. One of mine shot the first 3 shots at 50 yards into a 1" black dot. All in the same hole. So POI and accuracy are not in doubt. Don't know much about Wilsons, but they look nice.
I have owned 6 Les Baer's and all were fine. Accuracy is amazing. All but one have ran perfectly, out of the box. One took a bit of shooting to loosen up. Mostly 1.5" guns and no problem with any kind of stoppage. I would guess about 20,000 rounds down range total for the 6 guns. Mostly Baer coat finish. I have talked to Les several times and no problem at all. If I had one complaint, it would be that they are not really open to a custom gun. You cannot change much and they are apparently anti suppressor, as they really clam up when you try to get a threaded barrel. I would not trade a grip screw out of a LB for any Kimber ever made. No comparison. I do not know about "slingshoting the slide" or any of that stuff. I just shoot what needs shot and put it back in the holster. No problems. And they really do shoot up to the stated standard. One of mine shot the first 3 shots at 50 yards into a 1" black dot. All in the same hole. So POI and accuracy are not in doubt. Don't know much about Wilsons, but they look nice.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
Bill built me one of his original LE Comp guns in 1984. It still shoots well, and flawlessly. I shot IPSC with Les in the mid-80's and have a very early Baer 1.5" that outshoots every other .45 that I have.
Neither Bill nor Les are making their own guns anymore, meaning that they don't do the work themselves. These are bench-made customs, not one-off customs like they used to be. But both makers produce quality stuff and both will stand behind their product.
The Baers lock-up like a bank vault, and they function just fine, but I have seen fit and finish begin to suffer as quantities increase. The Wilsons are more expensive, but also very accurate and reliable. And either will hold its resale value very well.
Bill built me one of his original LE Comp guns in 1984. It still shoots well, and flawlessly. I shot IPSC with Les in the mid-80's and have a very early Baer 1.5" that outshoots every other .45 that I have.
Neither Bill nor Les are making their own guns anymore, meaning that they don't do the work themselves. These are bench-made customs, not one-off customs like they used to be. But both makers produce quality stuff and both will stand behind their product.
The Baers lock-up like a bank vault, and they function just fine, but I have seen fit and finish begin to suffer as quantities increase. The Wilsons are more expensive, but also very accurate and reliable. And either will hold its resale value very well.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NY700</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Graham, having shot both wilson and baer, if you had to put down your money now which way would you go, or would you go with a different maker? </div></div>NY700, that's a good question. Of course, the answer always is that it depends on what you want to do with it.
Both are accurate. Both are reliable. Both will stand-up to a lifetime of use. Both make good competition guns and/or carry guns, provided that they are set-up right for the task. Both are quality enough to help you improve your skills over the long haul without being bogged-down by faulty equipment.
But, like quality barrel makers, there are also many good quality bench-made custom pistol makers out there, so Wilson and Baer are not the only ones to consider.
Between the two of them, if I could get close to dealer cost on a Baer I would get the 1.5" guarantee Baer. Keep in mind that Les tells me that the difference on the 1.5" guarantee guns is in the barrel choice, not the tightness of the lockup. I believe him (on that one). Then, hopefully, when you get it, the Baer won't shoot 2" to the left of where the sights are pointed and the finish will be good. If not, be prepared to just keep sending it back until you are satisfied. In my experience Les will bitch about it, but if there's a problem he'll fix it.
That said, I think right now, as opposed to before the beginning of the last decade, your chances are better at getting a more polished piece of work from Wilson. They really are nice pieces of work. But his prices are way, way up there now. You will pay a premium for the name and have no more accurate a gun.
I like the Les Baers from the mid-to-late 90's, and I like Bill's work that he did himself in the early to mid 80's.
Anyone know what frames Wilson is using now? That might or might not enter into my decision as well.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NY700</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Graham, having shot both wilson and baer, if you had to put down your money now which way would you go, or would you go with a different maker? </div></div>NY700, that's a good question. Of course, the answer always is that it depends on what you want to do with it.
Both are accurate. Both are reliable. Both will stand-up to a lifetime of use. Both make good competition guns and/or carry guns, provided that they are set-up right for the task. Both are quality enough to help you improve your skills over the long haul without being bogged-down by faulty equipment.
But, like quality barrel makers, there are also many good quality bench-made custom pistol makers out there, so Wilson and Baer are not the only ones to consider.
Between the two of them, if I could get close to dealer cost on a Baer I would get the 1.5" guarantee Baer. Keep in mind that Les tells me that the difference on the 1.5" guarantee guns is in the barrel choice, not the tightness of the lockup. I believe him (on that one). Then, hopefully, when you get it, the Baer won't shoot 2" to the left of where the sights are pointed and the finish will be good. If not, be prepared to just keep sending it back until you are satisfied. In my experience Les will bitch about it, but if there's a problem he'll fix it.
That said, I think right now, as opposed to before the beginning of the last decade, your chances are better at getting a more polished piece of work from Wilson. They really are nice pieces of work. But his prices are way, way up there now. You will pay a premium for the name and have no more accurate a gun.
I like the Les Baers from the mid-to-late 90's, and I like Bill's work that he did himself in the early to mid 80's.
Anyone know what frames Wilson is using now? That might or might not enter into my decision as well.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
I have been running a Baer for about 10 years now, its been great, it is very reliable and will eat anything I put in it. It is very smooth and is tight. The finish is quite worn but it sure isn't my only pistol that looks well used. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another. As far as their customer service I have not had to deal with it so I can't comment.
I have been running a Baer for about 10 years now, its been great, it is very reliable and will eat anything I put in it. It is very smooth and is tight. The finish is quite worn but it sure isn't my only pistol that looks well used. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another. As far as their customer service I have not had to deal with it so I can't comment.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Keep in mind that Les tells me that the difference on the 1.5" guarantee guns is in the barrel choice, not the tightness of the lockup.</div></div>
Baer told me they wouldn't offer the 1-1/2 guarantee on stainless frames. Said it would maintain not the fit.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Keep in mind that Les tells me that the difference on the 1.5" guarantee guns is in the barrel choice, not the tightness of the lockup.</div></div>
Baer told me they wouldn't offer the 1-1/2 guarantee on stainless frames. Said it would maintain not the fit.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
For carry I really like my Wilson KZ9 (its very light with the poly frame), in a 45 I prefer a NHC GRP II for carry and a LB Xtreme tacical for IDPA.
For carry I really like my Wilson KZ9 (its very light with the poly frame), in a 45 I prefer a NHC GRP II for carry and a LB Xtreme tacical for IDPA.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
I have had both wilsons and LB, I now own 5 lb pistols and no wilsons, never had a failure on any of them except the 9mm(bad ammo. The premier II has over 5000 rounds and only gets clean every 500. so being "over tight" never caused a problem. I can not say any of those things about my CQB.
I got my LB SS stinger for $1700, shoots just as good as my full size ones
I have had both wilsons and LB, I now own 5 lb pistols and no wilsons, never had a failure on any of them except the 9mm(bad ammo. The premier II has over 5000 rounds and only gets clean every 500. so being "over tight" never caused a problem. I can not say any of those things about my CQB.
I got my LB SS stinger for $1700, shoots just as good as my full size ones
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
I own a LB, Wilson, and Ed Brown.
I've had LB Stainless Stinger for about 10 years, and have never had a hiccup. My only complaint is the ridges on the mainspring housing rather than checkering, which I thought was an unfortunate cost savings attempt. Performance and accuracy are beyond my expectations, but I decided to make the Wilson Sentinel by carry piece due to size.
One misconception about Baer's is that a tight slide/frame fit it responsible for accuracy. If anyone's ever seen the upper/lower receiver fit on a M16, it's obvious that this is not the case. Barrel to slide fit is accomplished by the bushing lockup, not the frame.
The Wilson's trigger is the best of the 3, and my choice for a carry weapon. The Sentinel isn't exactly fun to shoot with the 3.6" barrel and very short grip, but it fits right in my hand, so no complaints. I did learn the hard way that Wilson compacts are only guaranteed to run specific types of ammo, something Wilson will not volunteer until delivery. If your intent is to run PMC ammo through a Wilson for practice, I'd say go elsewhere.
At the time of purchase, Ed Brown CNC'd every part of his 1911's with the exception of the trigger (Videcki), sights (Bomar), and grips (forgot the name). This goes a long way toward earning my money, and the product's fit, function, and accurracy beat both the Wilson and Bear overall. Its 5" barrel prohibits using it as a carry weapon, but I wouldn't discount his product if you're looking in the $2k price bracket.
Since I haven't shot the LB in years, I'm considering putting it up for sale. If interested, keep an eye on the FS boards or send a PM.
I own a LB, Wilson, and Ed Brown.
I've had LB Stainless Stinger for about 10 years, and have never had a hiccup. My only complaint is the ridges on the mainspring housing rather than checkering, which I thought was an unfortunate cost savings attempt. Performance and accuracy are beyond my expectations, but I decided to make the Wilson Sentinel by carry piece due to size.
One misconception about Baer's is that a tight slide/frame fit it responsible for accuracy. If anyone's ever seen the upper/lower receiver fit on a M16, it's obvious that this is not the case. Barrel to slide fit is accomplished by the bushing lockup, not the frame.
The Wilson's trigger is the best of the 3, and my choice for a carry weapon. The Sentinel isn't exactly fun to shoot with the 3.6" barrel and very short grip, but it fits right in my hand, so no complaints. I did learn the hard way that Wilson compacts are only guaranteed to run specific types of ammo, something Wilson will not volunteer until delivery. If your intent is to run PMC ammo through a Wilson for practice, I'd say go elsewhere.
At the time of purchase, Ed Brown CNC'd every part of his 1911's with the exception of the trigger (Videcki), sights (Bomar), and grips (forgot the name). This goes a long way toward earning my money, and the product's fit, function, and accurracy beat both the Wilson and Bear overall. Its 5" barrel prohibits using it as a carry weapon, but I wouldn't discount his product if you're looking in the $2k price bracket.
Since I haven't shot the LB in years, I'm considering putting it up for sale. If interested, keep an eye on the FS boards or send a PM.
Re: Wilson or Les Baer 1911?
Graham, Wilson machines their own frames from raw forgings. I have owned quite a few Wilsons over the past 15 years, and I believe the current produced guns are the best they have ever made. Some models even have machined from barstock grip and thumb safeties.
Graham, Wilson machines their own frames from raw forgings. I have owned quite a few Wilsons over the past 15 years, and I believe the current produced guns are the best they have ever made. Some models even have machined from barstock grip and thumb safeties.
