Gunsmithing Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

[LRI]

Here's the latest. This one is a 300 Winchester Magnum getting the full makeover.

Full monty blueprint
New barrel, Lilja 1-12 twist.
Manners stock
and looottttsss of work.


Starting out with the receiver getting tuned up in the milling center. Tune up the threads, face, counterbore, and lug abutments.

Then onto the barrel. Setup of the setup tooling (meh?

)

EDIT: Dern it, wrong photo. This is a 300WSM reamer. Wellz, you get the idea. . .

And getting the stock back to a usable form for how I do stuff here in the shop. Fill that bugger up, only to remove 95% of it again. (yay!)

Before:

After:

Thanks fer lookin!

C

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

You do very nice work and always have tons of pics to show.

Must bring in a lot of business from here.

 

[HSNARC]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

i always look forward to these picture books...Just curious but what is that stuff you filled up the inlet with?

 

[KYS]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

I love Dixon's build threads!! Always very interesting to see his methods.

 

[LRI]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

Thanks.

It's certainly picked up.

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

Chad would you prefer to have the stock not inletted at all?

 

[LRI]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

As a cardinal rule I always start with a virgin stock.

Epoxy empowers me with "divine intervention" so I can "cleanse" a stock that's already been whittled on by someone else.

Magic wand in a bottle! Woo Hoo!

 

[northern50]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

Chad, Nice work. It looks like you cut new threads in the receiver to get rid of the threads with the broach cuts in them from the factory, makes sense. Just out of curiosity are you facing the end of the receiver off then indexing off of the newly milled flat, or where the bolt lugs ride when you re-thread the receiver?

 

[John L]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

Chad,
Is this Gregs gun?

 

[LRI]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

Yesser!

 

[LRI]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build


Beginning the primary inlet portion of the build now. Action has been trued, barreled, and is ready for bedding.

This is a Tom Manners stock. I believe it is the MCS-T5 minus the adjustable hardware for the cheek piece.

Laying the tape so I can measure out the center. This is pretty important as it determines the center position for the barreled action. Gotta get it right otherwise stuff points in different directions. (blech!) A good compass makes this an easy task, but I still like to double check with a quality scale. Measure twice, cut once. . .

Well a couple hours later and I have the action ready for bedding. There were a great many tooling marks all over this bugger. (common to these actions) Some file work, lathe work, and a little bit in the mill tuned it up nice.

This should make for a really nice looking bedding job. My hands are numb from filing and sanding. I like doing it though. It's too easy at times to get seduced by fancy equipment. It's fun to get the hands dirty now and then too.

Here's the front of the recoil lug being drafted slightly. This makes it much easier to peel out of the stock during disassembly. Really helps to avoid chipping the delicate corners and whatnot.

 

[LRI]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

Now onto finishing the action up. the front pillar/guard screw area behind the lug was pretty rough. Someday I'll get around to setting up my BAD AZZ Brown and Sharp monster hydraulic surface grinder that'll make super quick work of all this.

for now its old school files and emery.

Giving the rails a kiss

Last little bit of machine work, putting a slight draft on the front of the mag box register. Again, just to make it easier to peel this bugger out.

After bead blasting. Looks pretty good now. Tool marks are gone and the edges are still clearly/cleanly defined. It's way easy to make one of these look like it sat under a heat lamp if a guy gets too carried away with the files and emery.

Now it's time to get back to inletting the stock. Computer work commences!

 

[LRI]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

Now the fun starts.

As with all my builds, I begin with documentation. If I don't write it down I'm screwed! Here I've dinged out the guard screw locations to be used later for the puter model.

Here's what were after. 3 hours of dickerin on the puter gets me the model I want and the tool paths. From here I'll save it and it'll get used as the base for the next long action I do. The first ones are always the bugger. Once I have the "master" though it goes pretty simple. It becomes a matter of just pushing stuff around. The tool package/path is where the work is. Surfacing isn't cut and dry like a pocket or profile. There's a bit of "puter voodoo" in order to get it to work the way you want. It's just an experience thing. The books only get you so far. Stuff I watch for is how the tool will treat the stock on an edge or inside/outside corner. Will it rip/split the material? With fiberglass its not as big a deal. Nice wood can be catastrophic. for this reason I write all the paths on the assumption they'll be used in a wood stock someday. Usually takes a little more time in the machine but it saves the hair pulling later.


Onto making chips!

 

[hgr2]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

It is very refreshing to find an actual gunsmith instead of a remington barrel fitter!! I like your work.

 

[LRI]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hgr2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is very refreshing to find an actual gunsmith instead of a remington barrel fitter!! I like your work. </div></div>

-You guys are going to get me lynched.

Thanks, appreciate the kind words.

Back to work!

 

[LRI]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build


Inlet is all done. With my mandrel in the receiver I indicated off of it to check parallelism. I'm within .003" That's pretty good. I have a feeling the bottom of the receiver isn't exactly on track with the bore center. If I'd only had my surface grinder set up. . .

My skills with a file only go so far.

That being said she looks pretty good. The tool paths did a nice job. The action is sitting right on the show line (radius of the receiver ring) and it's parallel to the stock. The tang is kind of showing its ass, but I expected that. Trigger placement is everything so I'll have a little "Earl Sheib'n" to do on the back end. Not to worry, this particular stock lends itself well to the modification. My only worry is the rear tang of the floor metal. It's going to be buried up inside the grip a little.

Not concerned really, all the Anschutz tgt stuff I used to work on are done similar to this. Nice that the grip has a draft to it on this stock, that'll make it easier to get the tools down in there without banging into the grip cap area. (which sucks as its more body work later!)

Anyways, now I have to knock out the barrel channel.

Here's the photos on the stock inletting and the final outcome.

 

[LRI]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Northern50</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chad, Nice work. It looks like you cut new threads in the receiver to get rid of the threads with the broach cuts in them from the factory, makes sense. Just out of curiosity are you facing the end of the receiver off then indexing off of the newly milled flat, or where the bolt lugs ride when you re-thread the receiver? </div></div>

Everything is started from where the new face ends up after it's been resurfaced. This way all my programming is with one tool and in a negative Z direction (down). The only exception is the thread milling. That begins at the bottom of the hole and works up. Only reason why is so I can climb mill on a R/H thread. I've considered the idea of buying a thread mill with backwards flutes but that'd probably just screw me up.

I've been doing it this way so long it's not a big deal anymore. It used to scare the buggers out of me for fear of having a bad offset and smacking the tool on the lug abutments. Thankfully that has never happened. (bang on wood)

 

[TitaniumBlue]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

I can't wait until my gun is done.

 

[LRI]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

Ok, last update for the night.

Momma's made CHILI and it's to fricken die for!


As for the stock, I cut the barrel channel and it looked pretty good. I'm not happy though with all the pin holes that suddenly showed up. Sooo, I got out my fast set bondo and plugged them up. I'll let this stuff sit overnight and machine the channel again in the morning. I could have left it, but it'd really look like chit once paint hit it. Barrel channel with chicken pox.

Anyways, I'm done for the day. Bright n early tomorrow we start again!

Nite.

c

 

[338RUM runner]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

Mr. C, I thought your Guns were good looken. Not when Kalli is in the Picture. Very nice. Thanks

 

[LRI]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

Were cookin now. Everything went pretty smooth. Been a long time since I've done a Winny so we'll have to see.

I have a good feeling we'll be ok though.

 

[Bloody_Tailgate]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

I got queezy when I saw all of that bedding compound all over the stock like that. If I made that big of a mess I would never be able to clean it up! It's funny, you're looks like that now but it will look 100 times better than my bedding jobs when you get done. You do amazing work...keep it coming!

 

[LRI]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

Masking tape is a beautiful thing

She's been popped out and I've just finished blending the tang area. Bedding came out really nice.

Now its off to the mill to get the guts cleaned up.

More to come.

C

 

[Bloody_Tailgate]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Masking tape is a beautiful thing

</div></div>

I think it's more like <span style="font-weight: bold">Having the balls to sand the shit out of a $600+ stock is a beautiful thing

</span>.

 

[LRI]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

Sitting pretty well now. Got her back in the mill to cut the ejection port inlet. Now it's trigger time!

I's pooped from working late last night so we'll start this again in the morning. Hope to have it finished up. Client is coming in for a fitting to check scope height and whatnot.


Fun stuff.

Later,

C


Right on the showline. Perfect!

Bolt handle inlet is now a clean transition to the receiver. .03" clearance all the way around.

Tang is now blended. That took awhile. Lots of fiddlin. Still have some block sanding to do to clean up the edges a bit, but the hard part is over.

Front and rear sides of the ejection ports. 1:1 fit. I'll open them up slightly later to fit for the paint's film thickness.

Here's one more of the bedding after spot facing the pillar holes. Coming along well. Clean surfaces everywhere.

 

[CSS]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

I've got to ask, what is the good looking wood stock sitting on the bench a few post up? Just some left over from another project?

 

[John L]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Client is coming in for a fitting to check scope height and whatnot.


Fun stuff.

Later,

C</div></div>

Chad,
Tell your "client" I said hello.

John

 

[jetmd]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

Thanks again Chad for the nice pictures and great detailed explenations.

 

[Quick Karl]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

I am curious - how do you adjust the receiver in the 3-jaw so that the bolt bore axis is true before you chase the barrel threads and face the receiver and bolt lug buttresses?

 

[LRI]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

Karl,

Here's a link that explains it.

http://www.longriflesinc.com/process.html

 

[JJones75]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

i guess it is comming along ok , ya know if your into the whole perfect fitting deal!!

awsome work kudos on your part brother

 

[Quick Karl]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Karl,

Here's a link that explains it.

http://www.longriflesinc.com/process.html</div></div>

I wonder how in the heck you adjust that 3-jaw??? Shims? I'm not looking to steal secrets just curious as heck!

 

[LRI]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

For now shimstock, yes.

I've got a chunk of plate that I'm having ground to make an adjustable base from. This'll save a pile of time in the long run.

 

[LRI]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

This morning consisted of getting the code sorted out for the trigger and magazine inlets.

I think all that work on the receiver paid off. The finish on the bedding looks pretty nice.

Everything else though looks good. Only took 6 HOURS to get it all figured. I'm kinda particular with how this stuff ends up. I encourage folks to take stuff apart and one thing I've learned is sharp corners see a lot of wear and tear. For that reason I try to put a radius on every feature I machine. I think they look better this way too.

Here's where were at. The top side is all done now. I have one more to run and then we'll pull the fixture and go onto the bottom side. This'll take awhile too due to the use of floor metals I don't have code for yet.

More puter doodles. . .


Enjoy,

C

 

[JJones75]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

Chad , not asking for numbers but it sure seems like alot of time ahnd effort on your part has gone into this stock with a total refill and inlet.
It would seem to me that all your time would cost alot more than what a new stock would run?

Is it realy worth the cost and effort to "rebuild" a stock as opposed to just trying to sell one and order a new one?

 

[LRI]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

Honestly, it's not an issue with me. The customer wanted this stock so I'm making it work. Custom guns (to me anyway) doesn't mean a box of parts slapped together. I'm so used to doing stuff this way it's second nature now. I've built a great many "franken guns" where actions/stocks were never meant to go together. Where there's a will there's a way. The most psychotic to date was this bugger:

Nesika Model R in 6mmBR fitted to an Anschutz 2013 alloy position rifle stock. Bedded and everything. Getting resin to stick to aluminum in a permanent fashion is tough to do. I was successful with this one though. Just don't ask what the epoxy cost or what it probably did to my liver.

Now that I have the baseline programming sorted out I'll be able to run an infinite number of Winchester actions much, much faster.

The first one is always the biche.

C


PS:

You live in Slidell? My best friend David Karcher is from there. He's a hell of a shooter. 2002 National Champion (SR) and has been on the Palma team. Federal agent guy now chasing delinquent Navy guys who beat on their wives/kids.

If you ever run into him at a range he's a hell of a good chit.

C

 

[LRI]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: css</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got to ask, what is the good looking wood stock sitting on the bench a few post up? Just some left over from another project? </div></div>


That's my palma rifle stock. Nesika K action in 308, English walnut with the Nesika part inlayed in Pewter. (don't evah want to do that again!)

This thing is a bling rifle.

Nesika K action
Chanlynn barrel in 308 Bisley
Grunig/Elmiger FT300 trigger
Sunny Hill SS trigger guard
My rail setup
Warner buttplate
Warner Palma rear sight
My ladder front sight
My adjustable cheek hardware.

I've owned the dumb thing 7+ years and it has less than 100 rounds through it. Just sits around getting beat up now. I need to put it back together and start shooting again.

Someday. You all keep me cooped up in the shop!

(not complaining at all)

Here she is all decked out:

Here's another one I'll be starting on before too long.

Kyle Leibertrau's Palma Gun. Getting all sorted out for Worlds this fall in Australia. New paint, some minor changes, and a new barrel. I sponsor Kyle by building his rifles for him and catoring to his whining. (kidding) He's a good kid and makes me look good.

 

[Quick Karl]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

Sir, I want to come and work for you. I've seen a lot of wannabees that wish they had your skills, and commitment to quality & craftsmanship, but you are an artist.

 

[Patrick_S]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

Very nice! Thanks for sharing pics.

 

[CSS]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

I can't wait to see my 40x 22 with your Adj cheek hardware installed. I

 

[ZY100]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

I'll come sweep your floors for free...as long as you don't mind me leaning on my broom watching most of the day.

Love the way you can see the "CE" code stamp from the reciever captured in the bedding.

ZY

 

[LRI]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZY100</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll come sweep your floors for free...as long as you don't mind me leaning on my broom watching most of the day.

Love the way you can see the "CE" code stamp from the reciever captured in the bedding.

ZY </div></div>


Well in that case where the hell were you yesterday around 4pm? (snicker)



Gave the shop an "ethnic cleansing". Soon as the weather thaws out I'm gutting this place to wax the floors again.


Here's my little bat cave:

 

[Jim See]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

Chad nice work, that is going to be one nice winny. When are you moving into the new shop? I thought I remember a post about new shop construction?

 

[LRI]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

The building is finished. I believe its just a bit of paint work left.

Part of my business is manufacturing vintage motorcycle parts for a mail order/bike building company. (Competition Distributing Sturgis SD)

The building actually belongs to "the ol man". Were not exactly sure what were going to do long term with that. Lots of ideas being kicked around. So we'll have to see.

Someday I'd like to be in my own little bat cave, but it's too early yet. I'll need to get a few more guns in/out of here before I can take that plunge.

 

[oneeyedmac]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Honestly, it's not an issue with me. The customer wanted this stock so I'm making it work. Custom guns (to me anyway) doesn't mean a box of parts slapped together. I'm so used to doing stuff this way it's second nature now. I've built a great many "franken guns" where actions/stocks were never meant to go together. Where there's a will there's a way. The most psychotic to date was this bugger:

Nesika Model R in 6mmBR fitted to an Anschutz 2013 alloy position rifle stock. Bedded and everything. Getting resin to stick to aluminum in a permanent fashion is tough to do. I was successful with this one though. Just don't ask what the epoxy cost or <span style="font-weight: bold">what it probably did to my liver.</span>


</div></div>

You aren't supposed to drink it bro...

 

[Centerfire1]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

10 Days into a build and he's almost complete !!!!!
Thats my favorite part of the thread...You couldn't get service that quick at Sonic.

 

[jetmd]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

Or the Quality!

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

I'm in withdrawal from Chad's build pictures and write-ups!

 

[30calDeath]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

This thread really makes you appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into building a gun, now I wont complain when I drop the $ I will drop. These things take a while to build!

 

[LRI]

Re: Winchester Pre 64 Heavy Tac Build

Thanks guys.

Just waiting on coating/paint for now. I think the metal stuff is on the way back.

Stock painter is about finished too.


Almost there!

C