Wind budget

[silhouette]

In a previous episode, (don't know which one) Mike spoke briefly about his wind budget from high and low wind speeds.
I couldn't quite understand how to get that so I'd like to hear that explained in more detail, or perhaps someone on here could help?

 

[Deleted member 113831]

The error budget is simply the size of your target in angular measurement (MOA or MILS) compared to the wind that will push your bullet that same distance. If your target is 0.5 mils wide and a 3 mph wind will push your bullet 0.5 mils at that distance, then you have a 3 mph window in which to judge the wind to get the hit.

So, say you have an 18" plate. With any bullet you shoot, the wind error budget gets smaller and smaller as you go out, because the same wind has more and more effect on the bullet.

A wind bracket is a different thing. This is the difference in drift at a particular distance between high and low winds, or in a switchy wind, from one angle to another.

 

[silhouette]

Thanks @Skookum
So if my hold for the low wind speed was .5 mil and 1 mil for the high wind speed, regardless of target size and distance, then I should use a .75 mil hold because the POI is going to be within plus or minus .25 mil (between .5mil and 1 mil)?

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Thanks @Skookum
So if my hold for the low wind speed was .5 mil and 1 mil for the high wind speed, regardless of target size and distance, then I should use a .75 mil hold because the POI is going to be within plus or minus .25 mil (between .5mil and 1 mil)?

You could definitely look at it that way.

It is hard for me to say yes, because I consider 0.5mil to be a fairly large variance. But if your wind speed judging isn't all that good yet, that is about as good a strategy as you are going to get right now.

 

[Diver160651]

Thanks @Skookum
So if my hold for the low wind speed was .5 mil and 1 mil for the high wind speed, regardless of target size and distance, then I should use a .75 mil hold because the POI is going to be within plus or minus .25 mil (between .5mil and 1 mil)?

That’s where you apply your bracket, now to the wind budget.

Via Siri

 

[silhouette]

That’s where you apply your bracket, now to the wind budget.

Via Siri

Ok, now I understand the bracket, how would I apply the budget in that scenario?

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Ok, now I understand the bracket, how would I apply the budget in that scenario?

The wind budget is simply matching your target width to the wind that equals that amount of drift. Here is the video by @Lowlight

 

[Diver160651]

Ok, now I understand the bracket, how would I apply the budget in that scenario?

First, I don't do exactly as you mentioned for my wind strategy. It think, you need to think of it in three parts *if* you are in a hurry like in a stage setting.

1. Wind Values
2. Target Size
3. Strategy

Personally, I look at my adjusted peak and low as two values whenever I can. Not one average value unless they are very close in their results.

I'll see if my poor typing can explain what I mean.

So lets use a 500 yard target at your typical positional match, so I can closely represent your .5 and 1 wind call.. Knowing this, my wind speed would have to be 2x to produce these values at 6mph and 12mph FV adjusted wind. More often than not I don't see perfect a true FV and it is adjusted from an angle of sorts. A 50% wind value angle would register 12-24 mph as a true wind. The reason for this long winded setup, is that you can see, most likely you be able to easily feel and see the high and low periods - no need to average the adjusted wind values more..

For most positional matches, targets are 2MOA/.6mil or larger.

If I average, the .5-1mil to .75mil and for the sake of our argument, say the real wind is producing .4-.1.1 results. Indexing center at .8mil will have me .5 off the plate. This produces 1.1mil or the very edge of the plate before I miss on the downwind side, with NO wiggle room for shooter wobble etc and I'll miss the upwind side in the low.

So what try to I do, is figure out how that high and low is cycling so that I can determine if I'll run the .5mil or 1mil wind. But lets say you're savvy and your going to look through your scope and quickly mil guess (flash Mil) and realize the plate is 3MOA/.9mil (looking at the target is how you get your wind or error budget). We'll if that is the case and we have .9 plate to work with I'll, simply index off the plate by .4 for the peak and be on the edge of plate for the low. If the low is much lower than I thought, I still impact and if the peak is higher, I have up to 1.3mil to work with.

Thats just me ~

 

[silhouette]

I appreciate the replies from both of you.
I originally thought that the bracket and budget was the same thing. This has cleared it up somewhat, but definitely something I will need to practise to get right.
Cheers.

 

[slayer 2c]

No matter how many times I read these threads, I still feel lost with the wind calls!!!! I usually go with my kestrel and correct from the splash, but know this is wrong. I would like to get into the practice of making first round hits not just corrections. Do any of you have a practical way to practice this or demonstrate this in the real world. I cannot seem to grasp the explanations without the doing it. Please don't misunderstand me, I'm sure the explanations aren't the problem, I feel like the guy who can not see the image on the blurry mall pictures!!!

 

[Deleted member 113831]

No matter how many times I read these threads, I still feel lost with the wind calls!!!! I usually go with my kestrel and correct from the splash, but know this is wrong. I would like to get into the practice of making first round hits not just corrections. Do any of you have a practical way to practice this or demonstrate this in the real world. I cannot seem to grasp the explanations without the doing it. Please don't misunderstand me, I'm sure the explanations aren't the problem, I feel like the guy who can not see the image on the blurry mall pictures!!!

The wind reading comes in two parts. I can explain the math to you again and you would probably get it. I'm sure you are a more than smart enough. The problem is that if you can't judge wind speed and direction accurately, the math will never work out for you.

Take your Kestrel and live with it around your neck for a month or so. Calibrate your brain to what you are seeing and feeling by verifying it with the Kestrel. Once that comes online the math will work out for you.

If you do need help with the math again, let me know.

 

[silhouette]

No matter how many times I read these threads, I still feel lost with the wind calls!!!! I usually go with my kestrel and correct from the splash, but know this is wrong. I would like to get into the practice of making first round hits not just corrections. Do any of you have a practical way to practice this or demonstrate this in the real world. I cannot seem to grasp the explanations without the doing it. Please don't misunderstand me, I'm sure the explanations aren't the problem, I feel like the guy who can not see the image on the blurry mall pictures!!!

I feel your pain.

 

[slayer 2c]

Thanks Skookum!!!! I got a class with Frank and Mike this summer and I'm determined not to look like a Dumbass!!!!!!

 

[Shamrock1123]

First, I don't do exactly as you mentioned for my wind strategy. It think, you need to think of it in three parts *if* you are in a hurry like in a stage setting.

1. Wind Values
2. Target Size
3. Strategy

Personally, I look at my adjusted peak and low as two values whenever I can. Not one average value unless they are very close in their results.

I'll see if my poor typing can explain what I mean.

So lets use a 500 yard target at your typical positional match, so I can closely represent your .5 and 1 wind call.. Knowing this, my wind speed would have to be 2x to produce these values at 6mph and 12mph FV adjusted wind. More often than not I don't see perfect a true FV and it is adjusted from an angle of sorts. A 50% wind value angle would register 12-24 mph as a true wind. The reason for this long winded setup, is that you can see, most likely you be able to easily feel and see the high and low periods - no need to average the adjusted wind values more..

For most positional matches, targets are 2MOA/.6mil or larger.

If I average, the .5-1mil to .75mil and for the sake of our argument, say the real wind is producing .4-.1.1 results. Indexing center at .8mil will have me .5 off the plate. This produces 1.1mil or the very edge of the plate before I miss on the downwind side, with NO wiggle room for shooter wobble etc and I'll miss the upwind side in the low.

So what try to I do, is figure out how that high and low is cycling so that I can determine if I'll run the .5mil or 1mil wind. But lets say you're savvy and your going to look through your scope and quickly mil guess (flash Mil) and realize the plate is 3MOA/.9mil (looking at the target is how you get your wind or error budget). We'll if that is the case and we have .9 plate to work with I'll, simply index off the plate by .4 for the peak and be on the edge of plate for the low. If the low is much lower than I thought, I still impact and if the peak is higher, I have up to 1.3mil to work with.

Thats just me ~

Thank you for taking the time to give a pretty thorough explanation. Great reply. I really get it now.