wind reading downrange

[solst_ice]

I've some difficulty to read the wind downrange. At the shooter's position it's fine using the feel method and a Kestrel. However, if your FFP is located in a calm area, it should be even more important to be able to read the wind downrange.
At my range, the vegetation gives some signs, but it's hard to interpret the strength and direction. Probably more training will improve that.
But I'm absolutely helpless with the mirage downrange. I've tried to focus on mirage with the parallax knob of my spotting scope between 40x-60x, but even when I can catch the mirage, it's impossible for me to see the corresponding pattern / angles indicating the wind. Pretty often, I look for mirage, but cannot find it at all.


Do you have some advice on that topic?

How do you estimate the wind downrange, if there are no visible signs that could support you? (no flags, no dust, no visible mirage)

 

[Bigwheels]

Since I have to shoot in the mountains all the time I've found that to really gauge what the wind at long range you have to watch it for some time. Often I will watch the vegetation near the target & run the focus back & forth to see mirage for several minutes before a discernable pattern shows up.
Yesterday I watched for about 15 minutes with a fishtailing wind. I ended up watching for a boil & firing when i saw it.
If you watch in a fishtailing wind you should be able to see the mirage go from R-L then boil & then L-R & back. Watch for it long enough & you'll see it.
Hope this helps you.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

40-60x is too high to see mirage well, back down to 25-30x.

 

[FLEric308]

The best advice I have received as far as reading wind goes is to look at wind as water. How would water follow the terrain? That is how wind follows it as well. As far as spotting mirage, I find using a lower power optic such as binoculars works best.

Reading wind down range is the true art of long range shooting. With more practice you will get better.

 

[solst_ice]

Pretty interesting. Will work on that.
I also thought, it's more easy to sport mirage at higher magnification. Will try it at 20x and also take the binos.

 

[BearNaked]

ok so here is a head scratcher that I have been working on.

When you see mirage, is that mirage at 15 yards from you? 100 yards? 300? 600? 1000? how do I know that the actual mirage I am looking at is at a certain distance and is it equal to what is happening at the target? some places I have shot at will have 2 different wind directions. one at 300 and the other at 1100. this is mostly due to the hills I would assume but still has me stomped.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I believe (personal observation/opinion here...) that the mirage your see is the mirage at the distance where the scope is focused, and should correspond to the distance at which the surrounding foliage, etc., is in the sharpest focus.

If you can take a few moments on arrival at your shooting venue to draw up a range card, and use an LRF to assign distances to landmarks, you can then use those distances as the day draws on at the specific points of mirage focus that correspond to those landmarks.

Greg

 

[natdscott]

The best advice I have received as far as reading wind goes is to look at wind as water. How would water follow the terrain? That is how wind follows it as well.

This is true, and it's a wonderful corollary. The trouble is, a lot of guys don't have a good background in fluid dynamics. Understanding where it will swirl, and having some ability to SWAG how much, is a pretty tough skill to learn without some background knowledge. Water is wonderful for this because we can just watch it...air can be as well, but most of us don't have a smoke stream-equipped wind tunnel to study.

When you see mirage, is that mirage at 15 yards from you? 100 yards? 300? 600? 1000? how do I know that the actual mirage I am looking at is at a certain distance and is it equal to what is happening at the target? some places I have shot at will have 2 different wind directions. one at 300 and the other at 1100. this is mostly due to the hills I would assume but still has me stomped.

Mirage is wherever your scope is focused. One beauty of spending at least some time shooting on conventional square known-distance ranges is that you can quickly focus on a given yard line in FRONT of you, and know that all the mirage is between there and the target. For example: at 1,000, I will focus my scope on the 700 or 800 yard line and observe for awhile. If that's too heavy to see the target adequately, then the focal plane can be moved downrange, but it's less ideal to be viewing wind 50% of the way to the target.

When you have multiple directions and values, try to find a predominant condition (when possible), and apply addition/subtraction per yardline to come up with a SWAG. 3.8 MIL left at 1,100 yards through 400, then a direction shift at 400 to maybe 0.3 MIL right... SWAG becomes 3.5 MIL left.

 

[Lowlight]

The more wind reading experience you have, the further downrange your ability to resolve the wind will be.

Wind is invisible, you can look at what it does to objects around you, but you have to calibrate your senses to gauge what the wind is doing. I look at objects and say, I think the wind is "X" Miles per hour" and then look at the Kestrel to calibrate me to the conditions.

But in class, I pose wind two ways,

The Science Department, which is at the Shooter, it' s the only place on the range you can read the wind to within 1MPH using a Meter

The Art Department, which is everything else downrange, this is called the Art Dept because it's Subjective, not two shooters read the conditions the same way. You have to practice calibrating your senses to get a better idea of what the wind is doing.

Wind does not move in a straight line, it does not move at a constant speed, it Ebbs and Flows like waves on the ocean. Where you break the shot is a function of that movement and recorded changes.

We teach Wind Reading Error Budgeting, how to look at a target and determine the error budget for a set of conditions you record. We tell people to read the wind for 2 Minutes and note the High, Average, and Low velocity, then using the High and Low you assign a value to the reticle and that value is overlayed on the target.

We have a training targets designed to illustrate the process.

This video is our wind block on the range, but understand this lesson follows a much longer block of instruction in the classroom.

 

[BearNaked]

Maybe I am dumber about this than I thought. I guess going off of the direction the hair on my ass is moving isn't quite good enough.

So I would use the parallax adjustment to focus on a certain distance, lets say 700, and watch mirage at 700 while looking at 1000 or while looking at 700?

school me please.

 

[natdscott]

Target at 1,000, scope at 999 = only the last yard worth of wind, and the LEAST useful yard at that.

Target at 1,000, scope at 600-800 yards = judging the influence of the wind at the most influential end of the range.


If a guy is shooting from 10, and could only make a wind call on ONE yardline's conditions, he'd make it on the 900 yardline...not the 200.

 

[Lowlight]

Wind at the Shooter is the most important wind

Wind at the Target has the Least Influence

 

[BearNaked]

ok so I have my wind where I am at and my scope is focused at 600 yards for mirage, are yall making the shot on the target with it being out of focus?

Never tried it this way but will give it a go next time my range opens back up.

 

[_Raining]

You want your parallax to be set properly or else you can induce errors that way. A spotting scope can be used to look at mirage at different distances and a kestral can get the wind at your location.

Also focus and proper parallax are not the same thing. The target can look in focus but the parallax can be set incorrectly. You need to do the head wobble to make sure the cross-hairs don't move around the target when you move your head.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Calling wind through the rifle scope is hard...no other way to say it.

You are working with a more limited field of view, a smaller objective that sees less, there is less magnification most of the time, and you are often down on the ground, so wind changes might be literally going right over your head unnoticed.

There is a reason that snipers work in pairs, and use spotting scopes.

 

[pitdog85]

yup I was just about to post about how I was confused as well but skookums post clears that up a bit. Reading the mirage at 600 when shooting 1000 as an example is only really useful for someone with a spotting scope as by the time you readjust your parallax etc to shoot at 1000 after backing off to look at 600 the mirage/wind condition wont be the same as what you were just looking at right when using your own scope?

I have a hard time seeing mirage in a 12x fixed scope is this simply too little to read mirage with? I can see it there but its like I just need to zoom in a bit more to see it better?

 

[natdscott]

On many 1,000 yard targets, you really don't need to adjust parallax to get hits unless you cannot see it...and damn, with a thumb on the side parallax, it shouldn't take more than about 1.18 seconds to get close enough.

 

[gingerking5566]

Reading wind direction and speed is something that is learned by experience and trial and error. On extended shots over open terrain the wind speed can and often does change in direction and speed over the distance the bullet must travel to impact the target. It's not at all uncommon to have a 3 mph. from the west at your position and a 6 mph. wind from the east at the target. Heat rising from the ground is also an important factor at extended range similar to shooting fish in the water with an arrow. Reflection and refraction must be weighed and considered before you drop the hammer. At 3 to 5 mph. wind will cause leaves to rustle slightly, at 5 to 7 there will be constant movement, at 8 to 10 the limbs will sway and anything above 10 mph. you better craw a bit closer unless you are experienced and very familiar with your rifle and bullet selection.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

At 1 mph you wont even really feel the wind on your face as far as any kind of movement, it is more like an "impression" like say some one holding an ice cube next to your face without touching the skin.

2 mph you can feel the wind move across the hairs on your face and hands.

3 mph short grass stays busy, leaves twitch.

4 mph you just begin to hear the wind whistle in your ears when you turn your face into it. Small branches on trees begin to move, and larger grasses start to sway.

5 mph the wind just begins to move clothing, if you turn into it you will feel slight pressure against your body. 2 inch sized limbs on trees just begin to sway and large grasses stay busy.

6 mph wind presses clothing to the body and 2 inch sized limbs move just a bit more, large grasses get noisy.

8 mph It is uncomfortable to turn face to wind, may have to squint eyes. 2 inch limbs sway to the their base and 4 inch limbs start to sway.

10 mph Describing the effect on the body is hard, you will not be moved, but you are definitely aware of your center of gravity relative to the wind, 4 inch limbs sway all the way to the trunk.

15 mph the wind is noisy as fuck, and the trunks of 15+ inch pines and similar start to sway.

 

[natdscott]

Skookum, I think you're a little too aggressive on some of those environmentals. Some don't occur until much more wind. I'm not saying you're wrong--I'm sure you know what you mean--but some of the way you describe it might lead to people wayyyy underestimating what wind value they have.

Like: "bracing body against wind" usually does not occur until 25+ mph.

But hey. This:

At 1 mph you wont even really feel the wind on your face as far as any kind of movement, it is more like an "impression" like say some one holding an ice cube next to your face without touching the skin.

...is a GREAT analogy. Never heard that one before.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

Skookum, I think you're a little too aggressive on some of those environmentals. Some don't occur until much more wind. I'm not saying you're wrong--I'm sure you know what you mean--but some of the way you describe it might lead to people wayyyy underestimating what wind value they have.

Like: "bracing body against wind" usually does not occur until 25+ mph.

But hey. This:



...is a GREAT analogy. Never heard that one before.

I struggled with the "bracing" wording, that is why I said just the slightest bit. It isn't as if you are going to be moved at all, it is more like you just begin to become aware of where your center of balance is relative to the wind. I see what you mean though, if you interpret "bracing" as having to lean into the wind to stay upright, then that is definitely NOT what I meant.

I went back and clarified it a bit.

The limb size and movement observations come from sitting on a mountain side among the pine trees and watching their movements with a kestrel in hand.

 

[natdscott]

The limb size and movement observations come from sitting on a mountain side among the pine trees and watching their movements with a kestrel in hand.

And that's the trouble with the limb movement thing. My pines move the same as yours, but my deciduous hardwoods do not.

...but I am damned sure that MY limbs move the same as yours in a 15 mph breeze in offhand.

-Nate