Wind - Shooting Across A Valley

[R. Jones]

Recently, a friend offered to let me shoot on his huge tree farm. There are 3 shooting benches to shoot from. One at 400yds. to target one at 600yds. and one for shooting at 800 yds. All are on a hillside on one side of a valley. The targets are on a hillside on the opposite side. The 800 yd. bench is at the top of the hill, the 800 yd. target is also at the top of the opposite side. The 400 and 600 targets are at the bottom and middle of the hillside, as are those shooting benches. All shots are level. The floor of the valley is a lake. Elevation from the 800yd. target to the floor is about 110-120 vertical ft.

My question is - Do you guys have any tips for judging wind in this scenario? I can see grass, trees moving at the shooting position for about 15yds in front of me, and across the valley in the area around the targets, but nothing in between. Last time I was there, I saw FV crosswind at my bench, no ripples on the water below and a gusty headwind at the targets.

Thanks,

Rob

 

[MDof2]

Plug in the wind at the shooter, or your best guess for the first 1/4 to 1/3 of the bullet's path in your kestrel or solver, get a solution, and send one, get downrange effects, point of aim, point of impact, etc. and make a correction as needed.
There are a ton of variables on landscape features, conditions, gun, bullet, etc. that make your question challenging at best to answer.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Captured a photo of the "Wind Challenge" here in the valley... The flag closest to me shows the wind coming from the South. The burn pile on the foot hills shows the wind coming from the North... I don't have a Kestrel so I make an attempt to read the wind when I get an opportunity. It is a real challenge for the guy's that travel here to hunt and don't have much opportunity to do some observation.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

If the wind interest you, here is a site I frequent often.

Ventusky - Weather Forecast Maps

Live wind, rain, radar or temperature maps, more than 50 weather layers, detailed forecast for your place, data from the best weather forecast models with high resolution

www.ventusky.com

 

[MDof2]

Dig around online for some discussions where Emil Praslick gives on wind reading. He guest speaks regularly in the online Kestrel classes, as well the Berger series. Most of which get recorded and you can find the in YouTube.

Edit with correct book reference:
Amazon product ASIN 1510739726

 

[R. Jones]

It's tough one, indeed. I have about 25 years of experience shooting to about 700 yds. on a flat range and can figure out wind pretty well there. In the scenario above, I'm at a bit of a loss. On the 800 yard targets, there is a space of about 770 yards where there are no wind indicators of any kind.

Rob

 

[R. Jones]

Dig around online for some discussions where Emil Praslick gives on wind reading. He guest speaks regularly in the online Kestrel classes, as well the Berger series. Most of which get recorded and you can find the in YouTube.

He's also written a book that is a very good read and worth picking up.

Thanks. I'll check it out.

 

[6.5SH]

Dig around online for some discussions where Emil Praslick gives on wind reading. He guest speaks regularly in the online Kestrel classes, as well the Berger series. Most of which get recorded and you can find the in YouTube.

He's also written a book that is a very good read and worth picking up.

What book did he write?

 

[MDof2]

What book did he write?

Sorry.... my bad. Shouldn't do forum on phone. He didn't write the book.
Uses it, recommends it, etc.
The Wind Book by Miller and Cunningham

Amazon product ASIN 1510739726
He's written / uses several other white papers in his classes / presentations he does. There is a PowerPoint that he usually shares after most of the Kestrel classes he teaches/discusses wind in that is worth tracking down.

 

[spamassassin]

While there is a certain level of art involved there are some things that you can do to help yourself. The first is knowing the dominant normal wind direction for morning/midday/evening ahead of time. The whole air mass around your location for miles in any direction is going to have a generalized single direction and then you'll see terrain features inducing predictable to semi-predictable effects at their location and contributing to effects on speed and direction which range from the semi-predictable to the entirely chaotic with certainty of those effects being reduced as distance from a given terrain feature increases. It's also helpful to get familiar with how wind velocity changes as elevation from the ground increases. Remember, bullets don't fly line of sight, they follow a curved trajectory which takes them farther and farther above the line of sight as the range to target increases. Hilltop to hilltop adds a complication that much/most of the bullet's trajectory is backed by nothing but sky so attempts at getting a mirage based wind estimation end up more or less forlorn. The best thing one can do is properly set your own expectations. There's no magical easy button and we have to accept that in the real world of most kinds of human endeavor it comes down to send one and correct.

 

[6.5SH]

Sorry.... my bad. Shouldn't do forum on phone. He didn't write the book.
Uses it, recommends it, etc.
The Wind Book by Miller and Cunningham

Amazon product ASIN 1510739726
He's written / uses several other white papers in his classes / presentations he does. There is a PowerPoint that he usually shares after most of the Kestrel classes he teaches/discusses wind in that is worth tracking down.

Thanks, have that one. Got my hopes up there was something new out, LoL

 

[R. Jones]

While there is a certain level of art involved there are some things that you can do to help yourself. The first is knowing the dominant normal wind direction for morning/midday/evening ahead of time.

I believe that each of your points are accurate. I remember my late FIL (A rifle shooter and USAF/NOAA meteorologist.) telling me why forecasting for valleys is so difficult. Apparently the difference in air temp inside the valley vs. the air mass temp entering the valley can change the entire forecast. All it takes is an air temp difference of .5 degrees. It either sinks into the valley or floats over it.

I've only shot at this location twice. Experience is the key. I can tell you about wind morning, noon or night at the range where I've been shooting for 20+ years.

Thanks for the replies guys. Guess I have some new things to learn here.

Rob

 

[Emerson0311]

Bryan Litz also discusses wind in his books. Wind gradient means wind above the ground is often much stronger than close to the ground. As a crane operator I see this all the time. 5mph at 30’, 12mph at 100’ etc.

 

[37L1]

This place makes everyone talk to themselves.

 

[Emerson0311]

This place makes everyone talk to themselves.View attachment 7991305

Oh yaaa, that could make a guy doubt almost everything if he didn’t stay focused and trust his process.

 

[R. Jones]

This place makes everyone talk to themselves.

The ominous clouds (and all the other challenges there) make it seem like it would be a nightmare range day.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

When you book a hunt to Montana in June and arrive here in November, here is your challenge. . LOL

 

[37L1]

The ominous clouds (and all the other challenges there) make it seem like it would be a nightmare range day.

Here's how it looked 15 minutes later.

 

[37L1]

My mat:

 

[delinquent pleb]

Where is that range?

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Where is that range?

Bitterroot National Forest MT​

 

[acudaowner]

yodel lay hee hoo

 

[ignortbuttrainable]

Bitterroot National Forest MT​

looks like oak ridge tenn. was a member there for many years. if you don’t like the weather in east tenn, hang around for 30 mins it’ll change.

 

[37L1]

looks like oak ridge tenn. was a member there for many years. if you don’t like the weather in east tenn, hang around for 30 mins it’ll change.

It is Oak Ridge, aka ORSA, where everyone ends up talking to themselves.