Wind Turret on Top, Elevation Turret on Left Question

[AznTactical]

I got a chance to play with a Kahles K525 scope with left windage this weekend and LOVED it but it got me thinking. I am not an optical engineer or designer but why can't scopes have the top turrets be windage and the side turrets be elevation? Is it an internal issue that is limiting the design?

 

[Steel head]

It would definitely complicate the internals.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Well, for one, if it’s just off the bench, that’s fine.

For dynamic shooting like PRS, it would be horrible. Take a right handed right eye dominant person.

You shouldn’t be using your left hand to dial unless moving from a position. So you’d want it on your right side for your right hand. But, you wouldn’t be able to see it in your peripheral or just lifting your head up. You’d have to crane your neck and head way over to the right.

So, it would only work for bench shooting. And anything works at the bench, so it’s not a lucrative idea for any optics company.

 

[M8541Reaper]

I’ve seen that before. Can easily be found if you visit a public range on the weekend. They just rotate their scopes in the rings so wind is on top and elevation is on the left. Boom. #TheFuture

On a serious note, I’m not smart enough to know if there’s an engineering factor here or just history.

 

[fdkay]

The French had a rifle scope with side mounted (albeit right side) elevation/top windage on the FRF1.
It actually makes sense from a tactical perspective.

 

[AznTactical]

For dynamic shooting like PRS, it would be horrible. Take a right handed right eye dominant person.

I do shoot local PRS comps (3rd year) and also right eye dominant. I was able to use my left eye quickly to check the bubble level (clamped infront of the erector hanging upper left) and adjust windage on this Kahles with my left hand faster than normal. Then my brain started thinking "what if?". But you are right I was using this Kahles off a bench instead of using it in actual PRS type barricades.

 

[308pirate]

I got a chance to play with a Kahles K525 scope with left windage this weekend and LOVED it but it got me thinking. I am not an optical engineer or designer but why can't scopes have the top turrets be windage and the side turrets be elevation? Is it an internal issue that is limiting the design?

It would most certainly complicate the mechanical design of the scope. Go find out how scopes are made inside to understand that.

Worse than that, it makes zero intuitive sense. Having the elevation adjustment on the vertical axis of the scope and the windage adjustment in the transverse axis does.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I do shoot local PRS comps (3rd year) and also right eye dominant. I was able to use my left eye quickly to check the bubble level (clamped infront of the erector hanging upper left) and adjust windage on this Kahles with my left hand faster than normal. Then my brain started thinking "what if?". But you are right I was using this Kahles off a bench instead of using it in actual PRS type barricades.

Yep. Now imagine using your left hand a lot for things. It defeats the purpose of your left hand being the support hand.

You already run bolt with right hand. So it’s already off the gun, and should be used to dial while off the gun. So, now you have to figure out a place to put the elevation that is easily seen and used by your right hand.

 

[AznTactical]

Now answer this riddle. If internal mechanical design was NOT the limiting factor why not have elevation on the RH side of the erector?

 

[Dthomas3523]

Now answer this riddle. If internal mechanical design was NOT the limiting factor why not have elevation on the RH side of the erector?

Because then you have to reach your head over to the side, and not just slightly up, to see it.

Its not a good idea.

 

[Midpack]

Not to mention you then eliminate the sales of those scopes to left handed shooters where windage on the side isn't a deal breaker for left or right handed shooters since most tend to hold wind or dial before the stage. The elevation turret is the one that is primarily manipulated. So while lefties are a small percentage of the market those sales would be zero or the Conley would be forced to maintain small skus just to accommodate it.

 

[loveha]

Directionally speaking. Twisting a turret on top left or right to adjust for impacts that are left or right makes more sense in my head. Same can be said about vertical adjustments. Spin the dial forward to go up, rotate back to go down.

I already use my left hand for re/loading a mag. Assuming the rifle is on a bench, ground, barricade, tripod, etc. Why can't your left hand adjust for elevation if the dial was put on the left? Then put the parralax/illumination on the right?

I can understand on a long heavy PRS rifle why you would not want to do this if the rifle is unsupported. Holding it by the pistol grip instead of the fore end would just be, well, you would look stupid trying to do it. I guess sticking the buttstock under your armpit would help balance.

 

[beetroot]

Why not do windage on the left, elevation on the right with combined parallax, and illumination on the top with an adjustment for flux capacitance to aid with the use of NV and thermal optics.

Seems logical to me.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Directionally speaking. Twisting a turret on top left or right to adjust for impacts that are left or right makes more sense in my head. Same can be said about vertical adjustments. Spin the dial forward to go up, rotate back to go down.

I already use my left hand for re/loading a mag. Assuming the rifle is on a bench, ground, barricade, tripod, etc. Why can't your left hand adjust for elevation if the dial was put on the left? Then put the parralax/illumination on the right?

I can understand on a long heavy PRS rifle why you would not want to do this if the rifle is unsupported. Holding it by the pistol grip instead of the fore end would just be, well, you would look stupid trying to do it. I guess sticking the buttstock under your armpit would help balance.

Because economy of motion.

You don’t want to be taking right hand off the grip to run the bolt, put your right hand back on the rifle, take left hand off rifle to do things, then back to rifle, then right hand off grip to run bolt.

You should also start learning to do mag changes with your right hand for the same reason.

A pistol or carbine, the firing hand also supports the weapon. This is not the case with a bolt action and shouldn’t be operated the same.

Learn to do parallax/elevation and mag changes with your right hand. You’ll be far more efficient and smooth.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Perfect example. A typical mover stage at rifles only. You have 3 passes (not 90s or 2min) and 15rnds.

Even when it’s prone, think about this:

Run dry
Open bolt right hand and hit mag release
Put right hand back on grip
Let go of rear bag with left hand
Insert mag with left hand
Reestablish bag grip with left hand
Run bolt with right hand

vs

Run dry
Open bolt with right hand and hit mag release
Insert mag with right hand
Run bolt with right hand

It’s the same for every stage out there unless you are moving positions and breaking your support hand anyway.

That adds up to seconds and over the course of a shooting career will add many, many extra shots or extra time to make better shots.