Worth upgrading from ELDM to LRHT?

[YotaEer]

Is it worth upgrading from the hornady ELDM to Berger LRHT?

This would be going from 140 eldm to 144 lrht in my 6.5 CM and 108 ELDM to 109 LRHT in my 6 ARC. I do not compete, just shoot steel and varmints a lot out to 750 on private property. Soon will have access to a 1000+ yard range (Ben Franklin Range).

Haven't necessarily had any issues with the ELDM and I started my reloading journey with them. Just seeking opinions if the cost difference is worth it at ranges of 500+

 

[nn8734]

Is it worth upgrading from the hornady ELDM to Berger LRHT?

This would be going from 140 eldm to 144 lrht in my 6.5 CM and 108 ELDM to 109 LRHT in my 6 ARC. I do not compete, just shoot steel and varmints a lot out to 750 on private property. Soon will have access to a 1000+ yard range (Ben Franklin Range).

Haven't necessarily had any issues with the ELDM and I started my reloading journey with them. Just seeking opinions if the cost difference is worth it at ranges of 600+

How would you determine if it's worth it? What metrics do you use to evaluate/assess performance and what gains would you have to see in those metrics for it to be worth going from the ELDM to the Berger, given the Berger's marginal cost delta?

 

[YotaEer]

How would you determine if it's worth it? What metrics do you use to evaluate/assess performance and what gains would you have to see in those metrics for it to be worth going from the ELDM to the Berger, given the Berger's marginal cost delta?

SD/ES and CBTO variation I would notice in the reloading room and during load development.

Shooting at paper at less than 300 yards I do not expect to see much of a difference between the 2 bullets. Both guns have proof barrels and consistently shoot half MOA with the ELDMs.

What I would hope to gain is the consistency at 500+ yards. Majority of the time the ELDM is great, but there are some times where there's flyers or vertical dispersion that wasn't me or the wind.

 

[nn8734]

SD/ES and CBTO variation I would notice in the reloading room and during load development.

Shooting at paper at less than 300 yards I do not expect to see much of a difference between the 2 bullets. Both guns have proof barrels and consistently shoot half MOA with the ELDMs.

What I would hope to gain is the consistency at 500+ yards. Majority of the time the ELDM is great, but there are some times where there's flyers or vertical dispersion that wasn't me or the wind.

So you'd want to acquire some information about drop, wind drift and possibly SD/ES from users of the Berger bullet to help you make your decision while ensuring you compare apples to apples to the extent possible..

However, first question I'd ask is this: Are those flyers material relative to what you're asking the system to do on a day-to-day basis?

> If yes, then continue to gather data/info so you can make an informed decision as to whether or not the switch is worth it for YOU

> If not, then the answer to your original question is likely 'No'

Point of my posts is to get you and others that ask these 'Is it worth it questions' to think and make decisions for your specific requirements using data, metrics on a level playing field (ie. apples to apples comparisons where applicable) as well as qualitative decision points so others' opinions don't sway your decision out of context.

Another point of comparison is what I'll refer to as 'Cost per Miss'....for every round that misses the target, you incur a cost that you don't incur when making a hit...I say that because the whole purpose is to hit the target you're aiming at so if you make a hit, your outcome was positive so for that particular shot, the cost of the bullet was worth it...So if the Berger bullets cost $10 more per box but your hit rate improves by say, 10% running the numbers may result in a less costly (and more rewarding) experience with the Bergers over the Hornady bullets.

 

[salks]

Berger bullets are better. Yes they cost more but I find it worth it in the end alot less chasing around to see why my load went to shit. Hybrids are less sensitive to jump. Very consistent performance.

 

[YotaEer]

So you'd want to acquire some information about drop, wind drift and possibly SD/ES from users of the Berger bullet to help you make your decision while ensuring you compare apples to apples to the extent possible..

However, first question I'd ask is this: Are those flyers material relative to what you're asking the system to do on a day-to-day basis?

> If yes, then continue to gather data/info so you can make an informed decision as to whether or not the switch is worth it for YOU

> If not, then the answer to your original question is likely 'No'

Point of my posts is to get you and others that ask these 'Is it worth it questions' to think and make decisions for your specific requirements using data, metrics on a level playing field (ie. apples to apples comparisons where applicable) as well as qualitative decision points so others' opinions don't sway your decision out of context.

Another point of comparison is what I'll refer to as 'Cost per Miss'....for every round that misses the target, you incur a cost that you don't incur when making a hit...I say that because the whole purpose is to hit the target you're aiming at so if you make a hit, your outcome was positive so for that particular shot, the cost of the bullet was worth it...So if the Berger bullets cost $10 more per box but your hit rate improves by say, 10% running the numbers may result in a less costly (and more rewarding) experience with the Bergers over the Hornady bullets.

thank you for the well articulated response

This last point is really the bottom line of it all. Only so much time and $ to spend doing this hobby of LR shooting/hunting, which are my only hobbies. Want to maximize the enjoyment and chasing misses, whether on steel or a varmint, is not the fun part

 

[TheMarkm87]

If it ain't broke... I've found too many ways to torture myself in hand loading. I'm starting to get wiser, and not mess with what's working.

And I've never fired a Berger bullet that I fell in love with. Not that they make bad anything, but the ELDM is pretty much the easy button.

 

[Dstoenner]

Yes bergers are better. According to Brian Litz the berger ballistian lrht are guaranteed to be within 2% of each other in a given box. Eldm would be higher. This means at long distances less vertical so better scores. I don’t think this matters much with steel. I shoot lrth for fclass but eldm for steel in my 22br

 

[diggler1833]

I think that Bergers (and Lapuas) are more uniform. That being said, I usually try Hornady bullets to see if they'll shoot well enough in a particular barrel. If they do, I'm sticking with the cheaper option for sure.

 

[XLR308]

I have been shooting the 140 hybrids for a while now in 6.5 creed and really like them but don't like the fact that they don't open up on flesh and bone but didn't really expect them to.
If I hadt o do it over again would have chosen the 140vld or just have kept running the 147eldm.

 

[Cody S]

idk if it's the plastic tips melting or what but I always had a lot of dispersion at long distance I couldn't account for that immediately went away when I switched to bergers, but it's mainly noticeable at 800+. I like the 115dtac for a slightly cheaper option in 6mm but I have some 109 lrht and will order some 110atip eventually as I'm a big hornady fan as I started my reloading journey with many hornady products and I've heard good things about the 110 atip.
I've had a couple bartleins that really loved ELDM at 100 and 200 yards.

 

[Rocketmandb]

I have a couple rules I live by in this discipline:

- If you can get Lapua brass for your caliber of choice, you get Lapua brass. In fact, if Lapua brass is not available for a given caliber, it is no longer a consideration for me.

- If you can get Berger bullets for your caliber of choice, you get Berger bullets. Pretty much if Lapua is available, then Bergers are available, so the second part of the above statement doesn't really apply to this one, but it would.

 

[Cody S]

I have a couple rules I live by in this discipline:

- If you can get Lapua brass for your caliber of choice, you get Lapua brass. In fact, if Lapua brass is not available for a given caliber, it is no longer a consideration for me.

- If you can get Berger bullets for your caliber of choice, you get Berger bullets. Pretty much if Lapua is available, then Bergers are available, so the second part of the above statement doesn't really apply to this one, but it would.

I second this. If lapua doesn't make brass that's no more than a slight neck sizing away, I won't consider the cartridge. damn those fins and their ridiculously good shooting products...

 

[ma smith]

I'd agree with the guys saying "not likeley inside of 800 yds" would you "need" an LHRT.

 

[Dstoenner]

idk if it's the plastic tips melting or what but I always had a lot of dispersion at long distance I couldn't account for that immediately went away when I switched to bergers, but it's mainly noticeable at 800+. I like the 115dtac for a slightly cheaper option in 6mm but I have some 109 lrht and will order some 110atip eventually as I'm a big hornady fan as I started my reloading journey with many hornady products and I've heard good things about the 110 atip.
I've had a couple bartleins that really loved ELDM at 100 and 200 yards.

The phenomenon of greater vertical at distance is called out by Brian Litz in his latest book. Consistent BC is paramount at 1000 and beyond. The Hybrid Targets were good but the Long Range Hybrid Targets are even better at no more than 2% BC variation. I too shot 115 DTACs and they were really good. I did short mine by length to keep everything within in .005.

David

 

[Rocketmandb]

I'd agree with the guys saying "not likeley inside of 800 yds" would you "need" an LHRT.

It completely depends on what your objective is.

 

[Rocketmandb]

I second this. If lapua doesn't make brass that's no more than a slight neck sizing away, I won't consider the cartridge. damn those fins and their ridiculously good shooting products...

The only exception to this is RWS brass - the only thing is that I have not been able to find it in the US for quite some time, and it's mostly in calibers more popular in Europe. The best 300 PRC brass I ever had was RWS 8x68S that I transformed into 300 PRC. Amazing stuff - just not practical.

 

[kthomas]

I've always had better luck with Berger projectiles.

That said, buy a box or two and compare them for yourself. This is the only real way to determine if it's better for you.