Worth Upgrading WOA SPR barrel to Krieger?

[jackal2001]

Back in the day I built a SPR MK12 MOD0 as close as I can get it. Since I was young and trying to save a few bucks and had a hard time finding some parts, I went with a WOA SPR barrel. Now I only mostly shoot at 100 yards because the range I go to is 10 minutes away and that is the max distance.
The rifle as it sits now with a WOA barrel does shoot sub MOA and for the life of me can't find any pics of my groups. I mostly only shoot factory ammo, BHBB 55g or 75g MHP. I had my brother load me up some 77g SMKs but didn't see much accuracy difference.
If I had to guess what my 5 round group size would be I would say .7-1". Would it make any sense to tear down the entire gun and replace the barrel ($600+) if I only shoot factory ammo, the distance I shoot, etc.

 

[Mike_Honcho]

To me? Not a chance.

 

[db2000]

WOA are very nice barrels. No way I'd spend that money for Krieger for what you're doing. Hand load 77 SMK should definitely be more accurate if done correctly.

 

[TRG65]

My 3/4-1 moa AR does just fine at 500 when I've taken it out. I can easily hit the 2-4 MOA steel that I shoot. If you want to shoot tactical rifle matches that mix in some precision, then you might start to see some benefit. But for recreation at 100yds, save your money and buy more ammo.

 

[jackal2001]

Since I don't reload, my brother loaded me up some for a B-Day present. He used Hodgdon Varget (his multipurpose powder) and 77g SMK HP and did some of the following grains of powder. 21.9, 22.1, 22.3, 22.5, 22.7. I couldn't really tell the difference.

 

[bgrav321]

Wouldn't

 

[Molon]

Back in the day I built a SPR MK12 MOD0 as close as I can get it. Since I was young and trying to save a few bucks and had a hard time finding some parts, I went with a WOA SPR barrel. Now I only mostly shoot at 100 yards because the range I go to is 10 minutes away and that is the max distance.
The rifle as it sits now with a WOA barrel does shoot sub MOA and for the life of me can't find any pics of my groups. I mostly only shoot factory ammo, BHBB 55g or 75g MHP. I had my brother load me up some 77g SMKs but didn't see much accuracy difference.
If I had to guess what my 5 round group size would be I would say .7-1". Would it make any sense to tear down the entire gun and replace the barrel ($600+) if I only shoot factory ammo, the distance I shoot, etc.

It all depends on what you are trying to accomplish and how much money and time you are willing to spend to accomplish it.

The 10-shot group pictured below was produced by one of my Krieger barreled AR-15s. I doubt that your current set-up can produce groups like this. However, ask yourself these questions.

1 Are you willing to put in the effort needed to develop hand-loads that can shoot to this level of precision?

2. Do you have the skill to shoot groups like this from a semi-automatic AR-15?

(The above questions are by no means meant as dig at you. They're just some things to seriously consider when making this kind of decision)

....

 

[powdahound76]

@jackal2001

- since you have desecrated a MK12 Mod 0 build with such a barrel, you should probably just send it over and I will take care of “redeeming” it for you.
do no expect any of it to return.

I will cover shipping and insurance as a favor to help a guy out. We all make mistakes, tours should not cost you any more $.

looks good. Just shoot it.
try hornady black 75gr bthp. Those have been a hammer for me.

 

[jackal2001]

Like I said I don't reload so the best I can do is buy match grade ammo. Asking my brother to hand load some ammo won't happen again.
I probably have the skills to shoot that good a grouping but my current woa will not match that Krieger.
I'll have to get it out again and save my targets.

 

[S197]

I wouldn’t do a rebarrel, but there is nothing wrong with building another upper assembl!

 

[jackal2001]

I'd probably do another 16" as I have one with a bcm chf barrel which isn't that great on accuracy.

 

[FatBoy]

I'm with the majority. I shoot A LOT of Krieger barrels on my bolt rifles but I'll never shoot a Krieger semi-auto barrel. We've had way too many in our group of friends pulled and replaced with Douglas or Wilson/WOA.

 

[MontanaMan]

I'm with the majority. I shoot A LOT of Krieger barrels on my bolt rifles but I'll never shoot a Krieger semi-auto barrel. We've had way too many in our group of friends pulled and replaced with Douglas or Wilson/WOA.

Why? I am assuming poor accuracy?

MM

 

[FatBoy]

Why? I am assuming poor accuracy?

MM

Until now, yes. The latest is a buddy who helps with the Palma team just yanked another one . (Or will be this week) He suspects an eclusion by the gas port opened up and its blowing up bullets. We'll know for sure in a week or so. When it's cleaned and scoped.

I understand that every manufacturer has duds, but we've seen maybe 5 at this point over 10 years. Admittedly, a small sample in the grand scheme of things but most of us won't even bother anymore. Too many other options. Never seen a bad Douglas, WOA or Hollinger.

That said, I have probably 8 rifles either wearing Krieger or with other switch barrel Kriegers fitted. (Probably burned down 5-6 more) I haven't had any issues with them at all but I only run them on bolt actions.

 

[jackal2001]

Thanks for the help guys. I'm going to try and get back to the range this week, hopefully tomorrow and get some groups in.
I do have another 16 build that I put together in haste using a bcm chf barrel and I wasnt too happy with it. I'm thinking of just doing another 16 upper but I want something a little better in accuracy. It will most likely keep the same 4x acog or a 1-8 nightforce. Should I just go with a 16 woa or something a little more durable like a criterion hybrid nitride barrel. It will most likely be shooting all kinds of ammo.
I'm seeing mixed reviews on accuracy on YouTube with criterion barrels.

 

[FatBoy]

Shooting groups with a fixed parallax, low power scope is not easy. You're averaging about the same as I do with my Mk12 w/10x and other similar builds. I average .7-.8 MOA at 100 and IPSC at 600y is relatively simple if the wind isn't blowing. IPSC at 750 so very doable with a good wind call and once your on its boring unless you get shifts. Doesn't take much of a let off to move a 77gr off an IPSC at 750.

You really want to see how that barrel does, put 25x with a crosshairs, plate under the front and heavy bag rear. Makes all the difference. That said, what's the end game?

 

[gunsnjeeps]

For 100 yards try 25 grains of H335 and a 52 to 55 grain bullet. Try 24 grains of Varget with the 77's. On a calm day, or if you stay on the wind, it holds a 600 yard X ring. (Varget gets up around 27-28 grains with light bullets.)

MK262 is 2750 in a 20" barrel and 24.5 grains, 24 is 2700 in a 20" barrel. I dont have the velocity for M193 but the 25 grains of H335 with a 55 is that neighborhood.

 

[MontanaMan]

For the same money as a Kreiger, I'll take a Bertlein or a Rock Creek barrel any day.

But for about half the price of those, WOA is awfully hard to beat for anyone short of an elite level competiter.

MM

 

[mheimer_45]

I’m in the same boat as you. My woa spr barrel isn’t nearly as accurate as my CLE Douglas bull barrel. I’m seriously thinking about having CLE turn me a Douglas SPR. Almost half the price.

But to be fair I’m hand loading a 73 grain eld for the Douglas and shooting factory ammo in the spr. Still waiting a AEM5 to start hand loading

 

[mark5pt56]

If I only had 100 yards to shoot, I would more than likely sling lighter bullets, find a low node and run them.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

If your brother is willing to reload for you, pick up a pound of 8208xbr. Try 23.x grains with the 77SMK at 2.245 in LC brass. I would not replace the barrel. You should be able to get down around 1/2 moa if you find a load it likes if you can shoot well.

 

[mark5pt56]

23.2 8208 at 2.255, did a primer test to see, fairly close, went with the 205M. LMT 20" 5R

 

[gunsnjeeps]

23.2 8208 at 2.255, did a primer test to see, fairly close, went with the 205M. LMT 20" 5R

I have 9 pounds on hand. Bought a pound, before I could try it ran into a group buy. Looking forward to pouring it instead of Varget.

 

[lennyo3034]

Just be careful with what brass you use with 8208. It really has an impact on pressure.

I use a load of 23.4 grains in LC cases. Velocity around 2680 out of 20” barrel. That same powder charge out of a Lapua case is 2820 and starting to show signs. That load out of a Norma case is 2900+ and overpressured AF.

FWIW, I’ve weighed cases and LC is around 90-91 grains. Lapua closer to 96 and Norma is 99-100. External dimensions are obviously very close to that extra material is cutting into case capacity.

 

[Molon]

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[lennyo3034]

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I think case capacity is a better representation over weight. I just use weight because it’s easier to measure. When doing load development, I still start low.

 

[quiksilv81]

I shot this two weeks ago with my 18” woa spr barreled ar. Federal gold medal match 69 grain factory ammo. 5 shots 100 yards

 

[jackal2001]

OK guys just got back from the range. Unfortunately I only had a few rounds of some of my brothers hand loads and I didn't have much time so I only did 3 round groups unless noted otherwise. I know it isn't the greatest but the are pretty consistent.

Federal AE 223 Red Box (10 round groups) : 1.7", 1.41". (I was surprised that was that good)
IMI XM193 (15 round blasts) 3.5", 3.2", 3.1"
BHBB 55g : .63"
BHBB 75g MHP : .60", .875", 1.02", 1.03"
Handloads 77g SMK: (21.9g varget - .54", .53") (22.1g varget - .63") (22.3g varget - .62")

I thought back in the day I tried some BHBB 68 or 69g ammo and it didn't do so well which is why I don't have any left to try. All and all it was a good time. The groups were shot from sitting at a bench using the rifles bipod and a crappy bag under the stock.

 

[FatBoy]

It would be hard to improve on those handloads, especially with a low power fixed parallax scope.

 

[WillHugh]

I tend to think of barrels as disposable, so if you've got one that shoots well use it up! No sense in dumping more money into it for the same results.

For what it's worth I'm running 24 grains of Varget behind a 77 grain pill in lake city cases, so if you're looking for more velocity it's probably available - that being said, with the accuracy you're getting I'd keep using those same loads.

If you decide to rebarrel I'd take a look at Craddock precision. He spun me up a 16" rifle gas .223 wylde on a Rock Creek blank, and it's unbelievably soft shooting and accurate.

- Will