...to buy a rifle in 30-06 as my only bolt action target/hunting rifle?
Or should I stick with 308, etc?
Or should I stick with 308, etc?
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Would I be nuts...
- Thread starter neoinarien
- Start date
Re: Would I be nuts...
would i be nuts to use mayonaise instead of mustard on my hotdog? its pretty much splitting hairs between those two cartridges imho.
would i be nuts to use mayonaise instead of mustard on my hotdog? its pretty much splitting hairs between those two cartridges imho.
Re: Would I be nuts...
There are many facts to take into consideration, the 308 is just a 30-06 with the extra space taken out. The 308 is inherently more accurate than the 06. Two the 06 has the powder capacity to drive larger bullets father, and to be a big game cartridge that the 308 lacks. The military has moved away from the 06, and is even cutting back on the 308. But as a RSO on the range I see three to one the 06 more than any other caliber when hunter sight in comes around. It just depends on what you want. Remember most of the Winchester model 70 Target rifles were originally in 30-06 and mine still shoots 1/2" groups and it was made in 1952. Just my opinion Tex
There are many facts to take into consideration, the 308 is just a 30-06 with the extra space taken out. The 308 is inherently more accurate than the 06. Two the 06 has the powder capacity to drive larger bullets father, and to be a big game cartridge that the 308 lacks. The military has moved away from the 06, and is even cutting back on the 308. But as a RSO on the range I see three to one the 06 more than any other caliber when hunter sight in comes around. It just depends on what you want. Remember most of the Winchester model 70 Target rifles were originally in 30-06 and mine still shoots 1/2" groups and it was made in 1952. Just my opinion Tex
Re: Would I be nuts...
The .308 is a tad itty witty bit more accurate because of the powder column and can be used better in a sub-20" barrel, and has a bit better barrel life.
The 30-06 can be pushed at higher velolcities and use the bigger .30 cal bullets better. Has a bit less barrel life and is a tad itty witty bit less accurate because of the powder column.
Like marduk said your really spliting hairs with these two.
My opinion of the two is that their twins, however one just didn't eat his greens as much and didn't grow as big and strong, but was smarter in school. The .308 is the smart one with his accuacy and the 30-06 is the strong one his power.
JMHO,
P.B.Walsh
The .308 is a tad itty witty bit more accurate because of the powder column and can be used better in a sub-20" barrel, and has a bit better barrel life.
The 30-06 can be pushed at higher velolcities and use the bigger .30 cal bullets better. Has a bit less barrel life and is a tad itty witty bit less accurate because of the powder column.
Like marduk said your really spliting hairs with these two.
My opinion of the two is that their twins, however one just didn't eat his greens as much and didn't grow as big and strong, but was smarter in school. The .308 is the smart one with his accuacy and the 30-06 is the strong one his power.
JMHO,
P.B.Walsh
Re: Would I be nuts...
Yes, I know about the accuracy difference but what kind of difference are we talking?
.1 MOA? More? Less?
Yes, I know about the accuracy difference but what kind of difference are we talking?
.1 MOA? More? Less?
Re: Would I be nuts...
Oh, also, would different barrel twists in a 30-06 be needed to better handle different grains (I assume so... stabilizing a 125 gr is probably different than a 168, etc)?
Ergo, it's somewhat of a false choice since the same rifle (excepting barrel changes) won't be shooting such a wide variety of bullet weight changes?
And if one can't take advantage of such a wide array of bullet weight options offered by 30-06, why not just got 308 and get the slightly increased accuracy?
This has basically been my train of thought on it...
Oh, also, would different barrel twists in a 30-06 be needed to better handle different grains (I assume so... stabilizing a 125 gr is probably different than a 168, etc)?
Ergo, it's somewhat of a false choice since the same rifle (excepting barrel changes) won't be shooting such a wide variety of bullet weight changes?
And if one can't take advantage of such a wide array of bullet weight options offered by 30-06, why not just got 308 and get the slightly increased accuracy?
This has basically been my train of thought on it...
Re: Would I be nuts...
Maybe on paper 308 is "inherently" more accurate but in the real world there is no difference. The only real difference is one can be shot in a short action and one can be shot in a long action. If you reload you can take advantage of the 06 case capacity. 308 is also a big game cartridge. Either is fine for an only bolt gun.
Maybe on paper 308 is "inherently" more accurate but in the real world there is no difference. The only real difference is one can be shot in a short action and one can be shot in a long action. If you reload you can take advantage of the 06 case capacity. 308 is also a big game cartridge. Either is fine for an only bolt gun.
Re: Would I be nuts...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neoinarien</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...to buy a rifle in 30-06 as my only bolt action target/hunting rifle?
Or should I stick with 308, etc? </div></div>
It really depends on your long term goals. You don't see too many hot rod 30-06's out there compared to .308. In the hunting world, '06 may not be king, but it's certainly in the court. Just the longevity of the round (1906 to date)make it a very impressive player. However, advancements in actions, barrels, stocks, etc. seem to find a home in the .308 world. In the tac world, .308 is king. You have found yourself on a tactical marksman site and not a hunting site. I think that says something about your mindset. Go with that. What does your gut tell you?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neoinarien</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...to buy a rifle in 30-06 as my only bolt action target/hunting rifle?
Or should I stick with 308, etc? </div></div>
It really depends on your long term goals. You don't see too many hot rod 30-06's out there compared to .308. In the hunting world, '06 may not be king, but it's certainly in the court. Just the longevity of the round (1906 to date)make it a very impressive player. However, advancements in actions, barrels, stocks, etc. seem to find a home in the .308 world. In the tac world, .308 is king. You have found yourself on a tactical marksman site and not a hunting site. I think that says something about your mindset. Go with that. What does your gut tell you?
Re: Would I be nuts...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marduk185</div><div class="ubbcode-body">would i be nuts to use mayonaise instead of mustard on my hotdog? its pretty much splitting hairs between those two cartridges imho. </div></div>
ok man, thats just gross. yes you would be nuts, eww eww ewwww
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marduk185</div><div class="ubbcode-body">would i be nuts to use mayonaise instead of mustard on my hotdog? its pretty much splitting hairs between those two cartridges imho. </div></div>
ok man, thats just gross. yes you would be nuts, eww eww ewwww
Re: Would I be nuts...
I'll have beer with my popcorn with this one, hey why dont we throw in some religion with this fight, just to make it more fun.
I'll have beer with my popcorn with this one, hey why dont we throw in some religion with this fight, just to make it more fun.
Re: Would I be nuts...
You wouldn't be nuts.
If you aren't competing then it's probably not a big deal. If you are competing then unless the rules say you have to use a .308 you would probably be using something different anyway.
The .308 is a great round. So is the .30'06. I would not feel ill-armed with either. If "I" had to choose one, then I would stick with the .308. Thankfully I don't have to choose one and I can't hunt with either in Indiana.
You wouldn't be nuts.
If you aren't competing then it's probably not a big deal. If you are competing then unless the rules say you have to use a .308 you would probably be using something different anyway.
The .308 is a great round. So is the .30'06. I would not feel ill-armed with either. If "I" had to choose one, then I would stick with the .308. Thankfully I don't have to choose one and I can't hunt with either in Indiana.
Re: Would I be nuts...
As with the other comments here, you'd be fine with either. Both are capable rounds with similiar accuracy potential. One nice thing about the 30-06 is that every dinky little gas station in bumble-*&^% nowhere seems to have a box of shells sitting on the shelf. Then again the nice thing about 308 is practicing with cheaper milsurp ammo.
I have both and like both. If I were hunting deer, either would make me happy. If I were to hunt bigger game (bigger than whitetails) I would prefer the 30-06 due in large part to more options for bigger bullets. Personal preference, that's all.
As with the other comments here, you'd be fine with either. Both are capable rounds with similiar accuracy potential. One nice thing about the 30-06 is that every dinky little gas station in bumble-*&^% nowhere seems to have a box of shells sitting on the shelf. Then again the nice thing about 308 is practicing with cheaper milsurp ammo.
I have both and like both. If I were hunting deer, either would make me happy. If I were to hunt bigger game (bigger than whitetails) I would prefer the 30-06 due in large part to more options for bigger bullets. Personal preference, that's all.
Re: Would I be nuts...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alaskaman 11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll have beer with my popcorn with this one, hey why dont we throw in some religion with this fight, just to make it more fun. </div></div>
Don't forget politics and blondes vs brunettes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alaskaman 11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll have beer with my popcorn with this one, hey why dont we throw in some religion with this fight, just to make it more fun. </div></div>
Don't forget politics and blondes vs brunettes
Re: Would I be nuts...
You have got to include redheads in here if you are talking about blondes an brunettes.......
I would say if you only had to choose one go with the .308. The reason is if you are using it more as a "target" rifle and will be pushing out to "X" distance then you have alot of different makers of Match ammo with the .308. There is alot more ammo designed specifically for tactical/target style shooting.
Now as far as hunting, the 30-06 has taken every big game animal on this continent. My 700 BDL is staying as an iron sights gun to take hunting when it turns to bad weather, its a PITA taking apart an M1A every time its snowing. The 06 is a gun I feel confident taking an Elk with, but then again I feel the same with a heavy projectile 308.
Its personal preference, I like both rounds.
You have got to include redheads in here if you are talking about blondes an brunettes.......
I would say if you only had to choose one go with the .308. The reason is if you are using it more as a "target" rifle and will be pushing out to "X" distance then you have alot of different makers of Match ammo with the .308. There is alot more ammo designed specifically for tactical/target style shooting.
Now as far as hunting, the 30-06 has taken every big game animal on this continent. My 700 BDL is staying as an iron sights gun to take hunting when it turns to bad weather, its a PITA taking apart an M1A every time its snowing. The 06 is a gun I feel confident taking an Elk with, but then again I feel the same with a heavy projectile 308.
Its personal preference, I like both rounds.
Re: Would I be nuts...
I own no .308's. I own several .30-'06, a .260, and a .223. I inherited a pair of .280's, one of the '06's, a .222, and a 7mm Rem Mag.
The 7 Mag has issues that need to be addressed before it can even be fired. The Deuce is waitng for Spring to get moved off the back Burner. The .280's are showing me things that I find intriguing. These things are along very similar lines to what the .260 showed me about the .308. The '06 hunted successfully this year. The .260 is my match gun and gets significant use. The .223 is misbehaving; either that or my marksmanship skills are lacking, which is a distinct possibility.
I don't miss the .308's. If I could only have one gun, it would be my Garand. If a second is allowed, it'd be my M70 .30-'06.
Greg
I own no .308's. I own several .30-'06, a .260, and a .223. I inherited a pair of .280's, one of the '06's, a .222, and a 7mm Rem Mag.
The 7 Mag has issues that need to be addressed before it can even be fired. The Deuce is waitng for Spring to get moved off the back Burner. The .280's are showing me things that I find intriguing. These things are along very similar lines to what the .260 showed me about the .308. The '06 hunted successfully this year. The .260 is my match gun and gets significant use. The .223 is misbehaving; either that or my marksmanship skills are lacking, which is a distinct possibility.
I don't miss the .308's. If I could only have one gun, it would be my Garand. If a second is allowed, it'd be my M70 .30-'06.
Greg
Re: Would I be nuts...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neoinarien</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I know about the accuracy difference but what kind of difference are we talking?
.1 MOA? More? Less?
</div></div>
MontanaMarine put this to bed, 2 precision rifles shooting the same bullet. One a 308 and one a 30-06. The difference is sub 0.1 MOA and for 99.999% of the shooters you can't tell a difference.
The differences showed themselves 40 years ago with world class shooters that were using powders of the day. The 308 had less/no airspace in the powder column and showed better accuracy or more correctly, better repeatability in the ammo.
The level of accuracy difference for modern powders with good bullets is so slim that the extra snot the 30-06 has (200+ fps, more for the heavy bullets) is going to be far more the determining factor when you're taking long shots.
The flatter trajectory of the 06 is going to win out over the 308 given equal abilities for the trigger squeezer and comparable rifles.
The 308 is functionally limited to about 1k-1200yd. Under some conditions maybe a little further. I know I've seen hot weather shots at medium altitudes by a very capable shooter go 1500yd.
The 30-06 is a different story. You're looking at 1500yd being the functional limit, and in the right hands (again, higher ASL and a very capable shooter) you can go a mile with it.
The 30-06 also has the capability to be loaded lighter and match the 308 ballistics or shoot even lighter and go for reduced recoil loads that are still exceptionally capable of game killing.
Generally you can load bigger cases lighter, you can't really overload smaller cases too much.
My current "plinking" load in my 30-06 is a 150gr bullet @ 3050-3100 fps. It's about 2 grains off the max and I can get them to 3250 from the 26" barreled rifle. My dad has an identical rifle chambered in 308, and with the same bullets he is getting loose primer pockets and destroying brass to hit 3000fps.
Long answer for a short question. The 30-06 would be a fine choice for your stated purposes.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neoinarien</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I know about the accuracy difference but what kind of difference are we talking?
.1 MOA? More? Less?
</div></div>
MontanaMarine put this to bed, 2 precision rifles shooting the same bullet. One a 308 and one a 30-06. The difference is sub 0.1 MOA and for 99.999% of the shooters you can't tell a difference.
The differences showed themselves 40 years ago with world class shooters that were using powders of the day. The 308 had less/no airspace in the powder column and showed better accuracy or more correctly, better repeatability in the ammo.
The level of accuracy difference for modern powders with good bullets is so slim that the extra snot the 30-06 has (200+ fps, more for the heavy bullets) is going to be far more the determining factor when you're taking long shots.
The flatter trajectory of the 06 is going to win out over the 308 given equal abilities for the trigger squeezer and comparable rifles.
The 308 is functionally limited to about 1k-1200yd. Under some conditions maybe a little further. I know I've seen hot weather shots at medium altitudes by a very capable shooter go 1500yd.
The 30-06 is a different story. You're looking at 1500yd being the functional limit, and in the right hands (again, higher ASL and a very capable shooter) you can go a mile with it.
The 30-06 also has the capability to be loaded lighter and match the 308 ballistics or shoot even lighter and go for reduced recoil loads that are still exceptionally capable of game killing.
Generally you can load bigger cases lighter, you can't really overload smaller cases too much.
My current "plinking" load in my 30-06 is a 150gr bullet @ 3050-3100 fps. It's about 2 grains off the max and I can get them to 3250 from the 26" barreled rifle. My dad has an identical rifle chambered in 308, and with the same bullets he is getting loose primer pockets and destroying brass to hit 3000fps.
Long answer for a short question. The 30-06 would be a fine choice for your stated purposes.
Re: Would I be nuts...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neoinarien</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I know about the accuracy difference but what kind of difference are we talking?
.1 MOA? More? Less?
</div></div>
MontanaMarine put this to bed, 2 precision rifles shooting the same bullet. One a 308 and one a 30-06. The difference is sub 0.1 MOA and for 99.999% of the shooters you can't tell a difference.
The differences showed themselves 40 years ago with world class shooters that were using powders of the day. The 308 had less/no airspace in the powder column and showed better accuracy or more correctly, better repeatability in the ammo.
The level of accuracy difference for modern powders with good bullets is so slim that the extra snot the 30-06 has (200+ fps, more for the heavy bullets) is going to be far more the determining factor when you're taking long shots.
The flatter trajectory of the 06 is going to win out over the 308 given equal abilities for the trigger squeezer and comparable rifles.
The 308 is functionally limited to about 1k-1200yd. Under some conditions maybe a little further. I know I've seen hot weather shots at medium altitudes by a very capable shooter go 1500yd.
The 30-06 is a different story. You're looking at 1500yd being the functional limit, and in the right hands (again, higher ASL and a very capable shooter) you can go a mile with it.
The 30-06 also has the capability to be loaded lighter and match the 308 ballistics or shoot even lighter and go for reduced recoil loads that are still exceptionally capable of game killing.
Generally you can load bigger cases lighter, you can't really overload smaller cases too much.
My current "plinking" load in my 30-06 is a 150gr bullet @ 3050-3100 fps. It's about 2 grains off the max and I can get them to 3250 from the 26" barreled rifle. My dad has an identical rifle chambered in 308, and with the same bullets he is getting loose primer pockets and destroying brass to hit 3000fps.
Long answer for a short question. The 30-06 would be a fine choice for your stated purposes. </div></div>
+1 to that!
My 30-06 shoots 208 amax's into 1 ragged hole at 100 yards. Shoots 155 amax into 1 ragged hole at 100 yards. My "plinking" load is 155 amax's at 2950fps.
The 30-06 offers MUCH more versatility that the .308 ever could. With today's powders you can tone it down and shoot loads that mirror the .308 or you can push it up to close to 300wm performance. MontanaMarine has shot everything from 110's (or 130's?) up to 240's in his.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neoinarien</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I know about the accuracy difference but what kind of difference are we talking?
.1 MOA? More? Less?
</div></div>
MontanaMarine put this to bed, 2 precision rifles shooting the same bullet. One a 308 and one a 30-06. The difference is sub 0.1 MOA and for 99.999% of the shooters you can't tell a difference.
The differences showed themselves 40 years ago with world class shooters that were using powders of the day. The 308 had less/no airspace in the powder column and showed better accuracy or more correctly, better repeatability in the ammo.
The level of accuracy difference for modern powders with good bullets is so slim that the extra snot the 30-06 has (200+ fps, more for the heavy bullets) is going to be far more the determining factor when you're taking long shots.
The flatter trajectory of the 06 is going to win out over the 308 given equal abilities for the trigger squeezer and comparable rifles.
The 308 is functionally limited to about 1k-1200yd. Under some conditions maybe a little further. I know I've seen hot weather shots at medium altitudes by a very capable shooter go 1500yd.
The 30-06 is a different story. You're looking at 1500yd being the functional limit, and in the right hands (again, higher ASL and a very capable shooter) you can go a mile with it.
The 30-06 also has the capability to be loaded lighter and match the 308 ballistics or shoot even lighter and go for reduced recoil loads that are still exceptionally capable of game killing.
Generally you can load bigger cases lighter, you can't really overload smaller cases too much.
My current "plinking" load in my 30-06 is a 150gr bullet @ 3050-3100 fps. It's about 2 grains off the max and I can get them to 3250 from the 26" barreled rifle. My dad has an identical rifle chambered in 308, and with the same bullets he is getting loose primer pockets and destroying brass to hit 3000fps.
Long answer for a short question. The 30-06 would be a fine choice for your stated purposes. </div></div>
+1 to that!
My 30-06 shoots 208 amax's into 1 ragged hole at 100 yards. Shoots 155 amax into 1 ragged hole at 100 yards. My "plinking" load is 155 amax's at 2950fps.
The 30-06 offers MUCH more versatility that the .308 ever could. With today's powders you can tone it down and shoot loads that mirror the .308 or you can push it up to close to 300wm performance. MontanaMarine has shot everything from 110's (or 130's?) up to 240's in his.
Re: Would I be nuts...
Yea, but a .308 is better in a sub-20" rifle. However, if I'm going to use a 24"+ rifle, ten I'll tak the 30-06 every single time.
For a short rifle, .308. For a longer rifle, 30-06.
*EDIT*- Has anyone use a 30-06 out o a 20" barrel and could ypu give me the ballistics?
Thanks,
P.B.Walsh
Yea, but a .308 is better in a sub-20" rifle. However, if I'm going to use a 24"+ rifle, ten I'll tak the 30-06 every single time.
For a short rifle, .308. For a longer rifle, 30-06.
*EDIT*- Has anyone use a 30-06 out o a 20" barrel and could ypu give me the ballistics?
Thanks,
P.B.Walsh
Re: Would I be nuts...
The shortest I've seen is MontanaMarine's 22" 30-06.
I think you could do it but the muzzle blast might be too much.
The shortest I've seen is MontanaMarine's 22" 30-06.
I think you could do it but the muzzle blast might be too much.
Re: Would I be nuts...
What I'd say would be nuts is trying to use the same rifle for hunting & target/precision matches. I went down that road myself and ended up with a rifle that was heavier than I wanted to haul for miles while hunting and didn't have all the features I wanted for matches.
Ended up building a dedicated hunting rig and putting my match rifle into a new stock with a DBM.
That said, I've seen a lot of pictures of guys hunting with what I'd consider a match rifle. But hauling that kind of weight long distances just isn't for me any more.
Something to think about anyway.
What I'd say would be nuts is trying to use the same rifle for hunting & target/precision matches. I went down that road myself and ended up with a rifle that was heavier than I wanted to haul for miles while hunting and didn't have all the features I wanted for matches.
Ended up building a dedicated hunting rig and putting my match rifle into a new stock with a DBM.
That said, I've seen a lot of pictures of guys hunting with what I'd consider a match rifle. But hauling that kind of weight long distances just isn't for me any more.
Something to think about anyway.
Re: Would I be nuts...
Each have their own fan clubs.....Im a member of the 308 club with the shorter action/bolt stroke and (arguably)more plentiful brass.
YMMV
Each have their own fan clubs.....Im a member of the 308 club with the shorter action/bolt stroke and (arguably)more plentiful brass.
YMMV
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