Night Vision WP Gen3 Tube Review, opinions on specs?

[Bruiser0311]

What do you think? Some say these are very low spec?

 

[Twistid]

How much did you pay?

 

[Bruiser0311]

How much did you pay?

$3495...

 

[jwramp]

With their XLS 14s running $1000 less I’d probly go that direction instead, but that probably wasn’t an option when it looks like you put your order in a week before they started selling them. The S:N is the only spec I’d be concerned with. Otherwise all good/very-good and clean.

A pretty high price when compared with the other options out there, but their cheaper XLS ones are more of a crapshoot on specs and cleanliness. Could have gotten something better, could have gotten something lesser. Imagine they’d be happy to chat with you if you aren’t happy with the performance. Bummer the premium you paid and probably didn’t know to have them hand-pick higher specs for you at no extra cost.

 

[Bruiser0311]

With their XLS 14s running $1000 less I’d probly go that direction instead, but that probably wasn’t an option when it looks like you put your order in a week before they started selling them. The S:N is the only spec I’d be concerned with. Otherwise all good/very-good and clean.

A pretty high price when compared with the other options out there, but their cheaper XLS ones are more of a crapshoot on specs and cleanliness. Could have gotten something better, could have gotten something lesser. Imagine they’d be happy to chat with you if you aren’t happy with the performance. Bummer the premium you paid and probably didn’t know to have them hand-pick higher specs for you at no extra cost.

Thanks for the insight, yeah it's hard to tell if I should be content...but then again 3.5k is a lot. I'd imagine it's not worth the hassle to do what? Ask for an exchange for a better unit? I wasn't sure if that is reasonable given the nature of tubes and this industry. I really just want to know how much I am missing out on with a bare minimum spec tube.

 

[RyanScott]

If you haven’t had it for more than 15 days I would send that one back and either get a higher spec filmed tube for less or a filmless tube for more.

But then, I wouldn’t want anything with SNR under 30.

 

[jwramp]

I'd reach out to them directly to talk it out. If you're happy, great, but I think the S:N would seriously impact the resale value if you decided to sell it in the future. Vic has been pretty vocal about that return period lately.

 

[Bruiser0311]

I'd reach out to them directly to talk it out. If you're happy, great, but I think the S:N would seriously impact the resale value if you decided to sell it in the future. Vic has been pretty vocal about that return period lately.

Thanks for confirming my concerns, on it. Might just sell some ammo and pony up the difference for filmess. Already sent an email to them

 

[Twistid]

If you can squeeze an extra $2k you can get that bino GP XLS setup from JRH for $5500.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Thanks for confirming my concerns, on it. Might just sell some ammo and pony up the difference for filmess. Already sent an email to them

Got your email, if ya not happy you have that 15 day return policy no questions asked and that went for our XLS program as well.

We cannot possibly have a no retunr policy on the XLS tubes even when a few barked loud here it was gamble on the XLS tubes when we sold over 700 units. BUT we still allowed no questions asked return policy with NO restocking fee. Seems that was overlooked with the selected targeting...All good.

We got ya covered whatever you wanna do Sir. Easy day for your hard earned dollar we want to earn everones trust with the best CS and return policy. My build Manager will reach out to you tomorrow first thing and PM me if needed. Thank you.

 

[WhereNow&How]

@Bruiser0311 . Yeap, low spec and at a very high price. For $3,495 you should and could have gotten a much better performing unit.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

@Bruiser0311 . Yeap, low spec and at a very high price. For $3,495 you should and could have gotten a much better performing unit.

Selective targeting at it's finest as you mentioned in another thread..Too bad that recent XLS thread got deleted You showed your hand VERY well there. My PM box blew up on that one!

Either way ALL customers of ours have that no risk return policy, always have, always will even with the XLS tubes we offered. Units always have a min spec and in this case it met the min. spec. But as stated if our customer is not happy, we're not happy and will always make it right. They always have that choice risk-free and that went for the gamble XLS program you so eloquently trashed until your favorite Vendor started selling the SAME thing...But mysteriously their offering had cleaner tubes, but you failed to mention no returns allowed at all but no risk there I guess. Yea I know you mentioned you somehow weren't talking about the XLS tube specifically even though the entire thread was specifically talking about those with your NVD dealer vs. TNVC offering in the title of thread. As stated my PM box went nuclear on that one.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Selective targeting at it's finest as you mentioned in another thread..Too bad that recent XLS thread got deleted You showed your hand VERY well there. My PM box blew up on that one!

As stated my PM box went nuclear on that one.

Vic, give it a rest. You always want to get into these wrestling/boxing matches when someone posts something you don’t like when your imagination is running wild. And it is selective targeting on your part.

Talk about having threads deleted. You are the Grand Master at getting the high ups over at ARFCom to delete threads you do not like. Hecque, this thread will likely end up deleted.

Then you follow up with my “PM box blew up” like you are some grand winner Gladiator in the Roman Amphitheater contestant ring by tooting the horn about all these members blowing your PM box up.

Well since you want to go there, I will give you some easily verifiable facts to consider.

You have been a member at the Hide for 13 years and have made 1849 Posts & received 310 Likes. So, 17% of your posts have been liked by members.

I have been a member less than one year and have made 820 Posts & received 705 Likes. So, 86% of my posts have been liked by members.

You always say repeatedly, I’m here to educate first and foremost whether you buy from TNVC or not. Well, apparently you have not done a very good job of doing that, or your percentage of Likes would be much higher.

Now let’s talk about showing your hand. You showed your hand here very well by the OP post, that you skinned up a new NV buyer with a low performing unit at a very high price. He asked for members opinions on his purchase. My opinion I posted was simple and straightforward and did not berate TNVC yet you want to go Nuclear on me.

It is what it is and seasoned NV users can easily see that.

Do you and me a favor and quit attacking me when I have done nothing wrong to deserve your tirade comments. It is hurting you and TNVC more than any perceived hurt you might think you are doing to me.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Ladies... please. It’s embarrassing.

Hurry up and whip your Michelle Obama out and get to measuring already.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Gents, I agree wholeheartedly. It's getting old.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Gents, I agree wholeheartedly. It's getting old.

View attachment 7445459

Yep sure is and many see that. And no I surely don't want this thread nuked like the other one that mysteriously disappeared that showed everyone the hypocrisy. One well known poster even called you out. Your other favorite Vendor also has MANY TUBES that have only met the min spec and others in the past have experienced. Where's your risk assesment and outcry?? You know all too well not all tubes can be high spec. At least we have a 15 day no questions asked return policy so where's the risk there? There is none and all our customers have a choice, just like the XLS tubes we offered you trashed. Bottom line, it's painfully obvious they're 4-5 other Vendors here and your selective targeting calls out one. So many folks see this here and pushing the "like" is your litmus tests? Ok then, carry on...

 

[RyanScott]

TNVC sold him a tube that meets the published specs. They also have a 15 day return policy. They’ve done nothing wrong and will (assuming it’s timely) restock the device and sell him another if he would like. That’s good customer service and no cause to bash them.

 

[WhereNow&How]

TNVC sold him a tube that meets the published specs.

Are you sure of that? Here is some information you might want to review.

So in the video the OP presented he says his SN is 24.2 and LP is 64.

Here is TNVC's ad for that particular Model he purchased. Please note that TNVC states in the ad the following:
"These tubes will still meet or exceed MIL-SPEC OMNI VIII performance specs, but with a white phosphor color instead of the more traditional green. "

TNV/PVS-14 L3Harris Gen3 Thin-Filmed White Phosphor MIL-SPEC

NOTE: Due to the high demand and our high spec standards for WP tubes and system QA/QC, current lead times approximately 16-20 weeks on new orders. Gen3 Thin-Filmed White Phosphor Night Vision Monocular Recommended Accessories: Wilcox L4 G11 Mount - BUY HERE TNVC TM14 Mk3 PVS-14 Weapon...

tnvc.com

Well current data out there from several sources listed below says the minimum Omni VIII SN is 25.0

"To give you an idea of the specs that make a tube "mil-spec", and I'll go over these specs below, the current Omni VIII "mil-spec" minimums are 1600 FOM (64 resolution, 25 signal to noise ratio), photocathode sensitivity 2000, gain between 25,000-110,000, halo 1.0, and EBI 3.0. These minimums are average-to-below average for what's available "commercially" although there are tubes with much lower specs."
Source: https://www.nite-walker.com/post/2019/11/21/specs-for-dummies-101

Next Up is another well respected Hide Member as well.

Contract	Omni I	Omni II	Omni III	Omni IV	Omni V	Omni VI	Omni VII	Omni VIII
Comments	Early Gen3 - Not all that far above Gen2 of era.	Another early Gen3, again not that advanced.	The first advanced Gen3 with significant improvement is S/N	Significant increase in photocathode performance levels.	Very advanced. See's introduction of Gen4.	Continual improvement of the technology.	Autogated Thin-Film Replaces US specs for Gen4.	Metrics not yet published – Aug 2010
Resolution lp/mm	36	45	51	64	64	64	64	64
S/N	16.2	16.2	19	21	21	25	28	25
Photocathode sensitivity uA/lm@2856K	1000	1000	1350	1800	1800	2000	2200	2000
Sensitivity at uA/lm@830nm	100 60@880	100	135	190	190	230@830 100@880	120@880	190@830 80@880
Gain fL/fc	20,000-35,000	40,000-70,000	40,000-70,000	40,000-70,000	40,000-70,000	50,000-80,000	50,000-80,000	25,000-110,000
[email protected]/mm	0.83	0.83	0.9	0.92	0.92	0.92	0.92	Nominal
[email protected]/mm	0.58	0.6	0.7	0.8	0.8	0.8	0.8	Nominal
MTF@15lp/mm	0.28	0.38	0.45	0.61	0.61	0.61	0.61	0.61
MTF@25lp/mm	0.08	0.18	0.2	0.38	0.38	0.38	0.38	0.38
Halo (mm)	1.47			1.25	1.25	0.90	0.70	1
Phosphor	P-20	P-20	P-20/P-43	P-43	P-43	P-43	P-43	P-43
Year	1982	1985	1990	1996	1999	2002	2006	2010

Source: http://aunv.blackice.com.au/forum?index=discussions&story=omni

Here is what another vendor states:
L-3 ETO Omni VIII Tube Performance Specs: Resolution: 64lp (min) - Signal-To-Noise: 25.1 (min) Photoresponse: 2000 (min)
Source: https://www.nightopstactical.com/PVS_14_Gen_3_Omni_VIII_Mil_Spec_Monocular_p/00163nt.htm

So if the minimum SN is 25 for an Omni VIII Mil Spec Performance tube as reported by many above and TNVC says in their ad that the unit he bought will: "These tubes will still meet or exceed MIL-SPEC OMNI VIII performance specs, but with a white phosphor color instead of the more traditional green." it surely appears that the unit he received DOES NOT meet Minimum Omni VIII minimum specifications which is what he paid for.

 

[WhereNow&How]

My dick meets or exceeds not only Omni viiiiixyz expectations , but it matches my arsenal! ♠View attachment 7445669

Yeah but the most important thing is: what kinda warranty do you have on it. Hope it aint a 10 year warranty.

I've heard tube failure is a horrible thing but never experienced it yet.

 

[RyanScott]

Minimum SNR is reduced to 24.1 in P-45. Which is the minimum listed on the TNVC page.