Gunsmithing yes or no to calling out poor workmanship on gunsmithing work

twoshot

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Minuteman
Apr 13, 2011
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Conifer Colorado
Guys I am a bit perplexed, I had recently had a well known and I thought respected, gunsmithing outfit take two Springfield long slides and do 460 Rowland conversions on them. I was very excited to get the work done. Unfortunately it took about 3 months longer than originally promised. I di finally received them and wow! very disappointed with the quality.
In case there is a question of subjectivity, No It is not subjective in this case, I personally own many fine custom firearms, both rifles and pistols and know what quality, looks like functions like and feels like.

The minimum problem is Late, I understand the custom world enough to be patient, I was until a point of feeling blown off, not being able to talk to owner and long after I had paid.
I Paid in full early last Christmas because, 1. I don't like being in debt and had the money to do so and 2. It was a gesture of good faith to what I though was a top outfit , at least they were not worried about the customers ability to pay.
One of them had failure to feed, every single shot.
Work that was paid for was not done...period.
Work that was done, was done poorly.
Mislead about work needing done which was incorrect.
Tried to contact owner (Name sake of the outfit) several times and his employees always claimed he was either gone or unavailable.

Net result, I have taken the guns to another top smith for repairs, he himself could not quite believe what he saw. he commented said Yikes (substitute word for the hide) !!!

I don't like calling a man out without giving him a chance to either correct the situation or at least try to defend himself (his or in this case. his shops work). as previously stated, could not get through to him after several attempts through his business number?

Should I call him out, (yes I have pictures) and so others avoid the experience or let it go and do not ever go back
 
Yes, I'd hate to see anyone else get burned. You've attempted to resolve it with them unsuccessfully, so I don't feel it would be bad form to leave some feedback.
 
If it were any other business you would call them out without hesitation, why would a gunsmith be any different. If they do crap work then help other shooters avoid the same disappointment.
 
Since there is every chance that someone else will ship something to them in the near future, I think we owe it to each other to call out bad work. With that said, I would only call them out after an opportunity to make the problems right has been extended. In this case, it sounds like you are being blocked from the boss by employees, so calling the shop out might be the only way of getting his attention.
 
twoshot, were you ever offered a refund and or a buy back for the items in question?

Didn't You post a similar thread on another forum and the same question asked there as well?

Why didn't you just send the items back in for repairs or inspection?

I already know the answer.
 
It's hard to make everyone happy no matter how hard you try. I personally don't agree with publically bashing a smith unless the matter is very extreme or criminal. Some stuff should be handled in private.
 
It's hard to make everyone happy no matter how hard you try. I personally don't agree with publically bashing a smith unless the matter is very extreme or criminal. Some stuff should be handled in private.

Someone please tell me why there is some difference between a "gunsmith" and say a mechanic or anyone else who does a job for customers. This B.S. about not calling them out publicly is a total load of crap! Look the deal is this for all you self proclaimed "Gunsmiths", you tell someone you are going to do a job for an agreed upon price and you fail to do that said job then you deserve to be called out! The customer who feels they did not get what they paid for has every right as well as a responsibility to warn his fellow shooters of your piss poor workmanship or business practices...simple as that! There are a lot of people who claim to be "Gunsmiths" and pretty much have no business working on a firearm and screw peoples shit up and as long as no one calls them out they get away with it.

There is also another side to this, the true gunsmiths out there should also want them called out so as to uphold the reputation of there trade as well as keep them from taking business away from real smiths. If you are a reputable smith who does the work agreed upon in a spelled out fashion and at the level of quality that is expected by the customer then you shouldn't worry about a bad review. Dont promise the customer a Ferrari for the price of a camaro and then deliver them a damn volkswagon, be upfront and honest with them and you should always do fine.

Just because you own a few machines, can take shit apart and get it back together with a basic understanding of how it works and watched a few youtube videos that does NOT make you a gunsmith!!!!

I believe being a true Gunsmith is probably one of the hardest professions on the planet it is a vast combination of skills from many other trades with little to no room for error, you have to deal with us the shooters who can be very difficult at times if not down right retarded. A smith is required to be a machinist, a carpenter, a painter and many other things at same time. Why anyone would want to be a gunsmith is beyond me, but I have nothing but respect for the true smiths out there.
 
Sorry late getting back, Thanks for the feedback, as I said in the first post the guns are now with a Top Pistol Smith who has done work for me in the past. Frankly he was busy and I was in a hurry wanting to go shoot some pigs with this round. so I decided to go with someone else based on experience with this conversion, and reputation......My Mistake.


He is on vacation till next week but will take some pictures and send to me when he returns. I will post them ....the pictures tell the story. of the work, in have an invoice that shows what work was paid for and you guys can come to your own conclusions.

No desire to hurt anyone's reputation, hence, no names have been mentioned. plus hearsay is just that. you guys will know when you see, as the company name was acid etched into the slides.......so I guess they must be proud of their work!
 
the pictures tell the story. of the work, in have an invoice that shows what work was paid for and you guys can come to your own conclusions.

No desire to hurt anyone's reputation, hence, no names have been mentioned. plus hearsay is just that. you guys will know when you see, as the company name was acid etched into the slides.......so I guess they must be proud of their work!


If your going to out the smith eventually by posting the pictures, then why not tell us who he is now??????? I'd like to hear from the smith and his side of the story.
 
deereatingpopcorn.gif
 
wnroscoe,
Would you be satisfied with the work if you did it? Please do not answer. I realize you are trying to keep everything civil. Can you mediate via PM's? Nothing is worse than a misunderstanding that neither party is willing to talk to each other about.
 
These posts take on the resemblance of Discovery Channel reality TV.

Will Senior beat the # uk out of his belligerent kid? Fists balled he goes in for the kill -Ooop, now a word from Geico...

If yer gonna drop a bomb, just do it already. If not kill it before the mods do.

-point is shit like this makes ALL of us look like chumps. The firearms community (you/all of us) is better than this.

my 2bits
 
I feel ya, I had the same thing happen to me couple years ago. I just kept it to myself and if any one would ask me about using that particular gunsmith, I would give them x,y and z reasons why I don't anymore.
Believe me I wanted to post it, but I have seen people post there bad experience/services and other people chime in saying gunsmith or manufacture did them right. Then the person that posted originally becomes the bad guy and then the drama begins (popcorn).

sorry about your bad experience
 
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I feel in the end guys will just flame you so its not even worth the trouble. I had a very popular smith screw up the headspace on a barrel of mine a few years back. My rifle was packed poorly and came back all marked up, promised a quick turn around that became 4 months and lied to about the reamer used. I'd be the asshole rather than him. Funny shit.
 
I may be tied for being the worst crybaby on this site, but I haven't and I won't.

Good news in public, bad news in private. That's how I was raised.

I'll leave it to others to do the finger pointing. Someone else always will.

I didn't always leave it, but time and again, it gets driven home to me that I should.

Life's too short to waste hunks of it on being pissed.

Greg
 
I normally don't chime in on these threads but I will on this one given the current crap with Tactical rifles.net

If you feel you have been screwed, absolutely out the smith. If there are a bunch of guys that have good dealings with them then they'll chime in too. Then a poor bastard that can only afford to do things once, wants to know the possible risks but also possible rewards of using a company can find if the good out weighs the bad.

Most all of use have very high respect for Chad and his crew at LRI. We have seen a lot of great guns come out of his shop and a lot of guys have come on here saying how great he is and how great the guns turned out and how great they shoot.

A couple years ago, there was a guy that came on here and said what a terrible job chad did on his rifle. He had pictures and a story that sounded bad. However, Chad came in and offered the other side of the story. There was a little back and forth on who thought who was right but in the end we can see that LRI is doing fantastic work.

Point is, I feel if you air the bad, then it better bad. If there is enough good to be heard then be prepared for it to out weigh your bad.

That's just my thought.
 
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Everyone makes mistakes, its how you handle them is what sets us apart.

If you paid for something and you got short changed nothing wrong saying it publicly as long as its honest and factual.
 
Everyone makes mistakes, its how you handle them is what sets us apart.

If you paid for something and you got short changed nothing wrong saying it publicly as long as its honest and factual.

Sir, you are in fact evidence of that statement... since you are most definitely a mistake... who's mistake, I am not sure, your mom or your dad...
 
I normally don't chime in on these threads but I will on this one given the current crap with Tactical rifles.net

If you feel you have been screwed, absolutely out the smith. If there are a bunch of guys that have good dealings with them then they'll chime in too. Then a poor bastard that can only afford to do things once, wants to know the possible risks but also possible rewards of using a company can find if the good out weighs the bad.

Most all of use have very high respect for Chad and his crew at LRI. We have seen a lot of great guns come out of his shop and a lot of guys have come on here saying how great he is and how great the guns turned out and how great they shoot.

A couple years ago, there was a guy that came on here and said what a terrible job chad did on his rifle. He had pictures and a story that sounded bad. However, Chad came in and offered the other side of the story. There was a little back and forth on who thought who was right but in the end we can see that LRI is doing fantastic work.

Point is, I feel if you air the bad, then it better bad. If there is enough good to be heard then be prepared for it to out weigh your bad.

That's just my thought.

You have a link to that thread ?
 
No I don't. It was probably 2 or 3 years ago. Only real detail I remember is that the guy recieved the stock back modified and unfinished and was upset. A thumb hole manners stock.

That's not really pertainant to this discussion though.
 
Apparently money has different value to different people. I work my ass off to make money. So if anybody in any profession quotes and charges me a price to perform a task and do it well, then I want it done well!! Gunsmith, mechanic, Dentist, Proctologist, Whore doesn't friggin matter. I also understand shit happens & customers can be unbearable. But when shit does happen, then it's up to the person getting paid to make it right! And if I feel I've been totally screwed, then at the very least I'm gonna voice my opinion. Not just to throw a punch back at the person who screwed me, but for the protection of others who work their asses off and value their money as much as I do. I wouldn't want to hear from some other poor soul who got screwed over because I didn't warn them..
 
wnroscoe,
Would you be satisfied with the work if you did it? Please do not answer. I realize you are trying to keep everything civil. Can you mediate via PM's? Nothing is worse than a misunderstanding that neither party is willing to talk to each other about.

When I first saw this post I didn't really give it much thought but, got to thinking, 460 Roland?? I know a guy that builds a lot of 460 Roland, I wonder???

I called and asked about the OP and if he had done any work for this guy. I described the pistols and the state he's from. I was told that yes, he had in fact worked on these. I asked again if he was sure and again he said yes. I explained what was being said and he told me he'd check his records when he got back to the shop.

The smith called me back later and said he had found the records and remembered the job.

This is what was said to me following;

"When the pistols arrived at the shop it was obvious that someone had be grinding on the frames. The grinds were so bad that the frames had to be welded up prior to any work being done. Additional work was required to repair someone else's attempt, this caused the job to go longer than quoted but, none the less, the job was completed."

The OP did call and complain about the jobs. The way I understand it, the discussion finally led to the OP being offered a buy back of the firearms which he declined. Attempts were made to take care of any dissatisfaction but, you see where were at now. I wont name any names and I've really said more than is my business but, the smith in question is well respected by many, has a good reputation and many rifle shooters know him quite well.

It seems the new norm now is to lay in wait for someone to come along, make a mistake and bam, to the internet we go. It's funny that the buy back wasn't mentioned. It seems that when things don't go exactly like we want we through a damn temper tantrum and the internet gives us a place to go and do it.

For the record, if a guy screws up / damages your project and refused to make it right, roast his ass in public 100% but, at least give the guy a chance to do the right thing and be a man. There's those that wont do the right thing no matter what and those are the ones that need to be served up on a platter to the public and made an example of.

I've made mistakes and missed dead lines. I've also knocked 50% off builds because of it. We all make mistakes but we should be judged by how we handle the mistakes and not by the mistakes.

Enough said, I'm out.
 
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So the pistols were damaged BEFORE the smith started ?
If I sent good equipment to a smith and received bad workmanship it would be real hard to trust him again to make it right.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
 
I once made the mistake of publicly stating crappy CS on this site. It was from a very popular mfg. I am certain even people who had never used the product attacked me. Some seem to live for that. Never again. If someone screws me over, I have no responsibility to warn others. Who knows, he might even get one of the idiots who attacked me last time?

I would not beat around the bush like this either.