You are not listening and it’s costing you

[Lowlight]

You have been warned, repeatedly to protect yourself, do your due diligence. Yet some of you refused and made this place a target for scammers.

you’re so stupid for a deal, you’ll let scammers Telegraph you were scammed and you still move forward.

I turned off registration today so hopefully they will find a new mark, but that won’t stop you from making costly mistakes.

when you get scammed there is no recourse, we ban the account, if we can the IP, that’s it. You’re out of luck and I am sure youre running around talking shit after, so we’re done,

i may shut the PX down for the next 3 months, completely, so I can find a solution.

enjoy your time, I get on a plane in 4 hours and by lunch tomorrow if you don’t see it, well you’ve been warned - plan accordingly

 

[pmclaine]

Caveat Emptor...

Travel suggestion, be safe.

 

[MK20]

Maybe the PX should be like the Mil/LE only section. Some sort of additional vetting or buy in to access it. Like maybe a monthly one dollar fee ACH to sell or buy, but free to look? IDK. Definitely dont want what Armslist just did where you have to pay 6 bucks a month just to ask the seller a question. That is stupid.
Or maybe just play by big boy rules and say whatever happens there is on you completely. Any whining emails will be ignored. I don't know. Thanks for keeping it up. The last few long guns i have built I have built off of there.

 

[Bayoubigcat]

Great experiences thus far in the PX. A fool and his money are soon parted...can’t fix stupid either.

 

[brianf]

It really comes down to matrices.

Depending what Frank wants to do with the site going forward and what requirements are needed to increase revenue stream.

Everyone has to remember this is a business for Frank to put food on the table, we all just think of it as a hang out.

I’m sure he has the numbers so it’s a simple decision.

how many “clicks” on the site = how much revenue from advertising

how many clicks are just because of the PX

how many secondary clicks/time is spent on the site because of the PX

If the $ will keep coming in ; the PX goes. If the dollars will fade below a level of comfort the PX stays with its annoyances.

In a perfect world he would take a cut/small percentage but then users will expect some type of monitoring and security.

I’m guessing the company that handles the site can figure out how much $ changes hands +/-

see if a percentage makes sense for the added payroll etc.

It’s all just a big old spreadsheet...and then follow the common sense answer it gives.

personally, if you get scammed ...you get scammed. I’ve bought all kinds of goods so far, but I’m not buying a 9,000$ thermal from a guy who “I don’t know”.

 

[FatBoy]

I’ve been very happy with all of my transactions here, but I talk to the sellers on the phone. Guy gets pissed about a “silly “ pic request I move on.

Seems like an opportunity for someone out in the WWW to create an escrow service. I’m not clear on why there hasn’t been several of these created already, to protect both buyer and seller. Maybe too much of a PITA...

 

[Lowlight]

I can lose half of you and it would still keep me above

I absolutely believe there is a such a thing as a bad customer

 

[Lowlight]

The rules are in place - you’re not listening or bother to follow them.

in fact the exact process the scammers use, is on here with stickies.

yet here we are

 

[Vexent]

I’m confused how are people going about being scammed? Use PayPal goods and services for all items that are not firearms, maybe everyone who sells has to send in a picture of an I’d or something? Over a certain price threshold?

 

[Caihlen]

So here’s the thing Frank, you’re at the point now where you can be choosy about your customers. The trick is weeding out the ones that don’t meet your criteria.

 

[brianf]

if those #'s are good to go you should put the PX on hold for a few months.

"prove it out" to yourself and then...adios

you are 100% correct there are bad customers

your supposed to remove the bottom 10-15% of your annual sales/customers/products

if you have the same customer in the same revenue position they are not growing your company tomorrow, EVERY sales guy says their account or that product is "strategic".

most likely you have legacy processes that can be audited once they are gone to become more profitable or efficient

good luck and thanks for the site in general

 

[Rerun7]

I really enjoy a lot of areas of this site and also find the PX useful so I’d hate to see it go.

In my last job I managed one of the largest mobile wallets in the US including fraud mitigation so I can tell you with certainty that scammers are sophisticated and they will never stop. The best you can do is slow them down.

I’ve noticed that a lot of people with less than 100 posts can still create ads in the PX. Could you up it to 500 posts and create a hard rule on the site that just locks them out?

Many will just go find an easier target which is a good mitigation strategy (don’t be the softest target). And a fee wont slow many down because it’s a small price to pay vs some of the high dollar items listed.

My assumption is that most people are getting scammed because they want to avoid the small fee on something like PP and opt for payment options that offer no protection. You can’t fix stupid so IMO that is squarely on the buyer/seller.

Are you having any recourse brought against the site or is it just people whining that they got scammed?

We are all adults, people need to handle their business.

 

[Adam B]

I love the PX, it is great place buy and sell stuff. I generally have to buy something in order to get my hands on it to see if I like it or not. If you get screwed on here it isn’t Frank’s/sniperhide’s fault. We are all adults and you are well aware of the risks you are taking doing transactions on the web. Grow up and shut the fuck up.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Stupid people are why we can’t have nice things. Seriously, you can spot a scammer from a mile away, it’s not hard. It’s also not the websites fault when you get scammed because you’re stupid, but stupid people naturally try to blame their own failures on others. Lack of common sense = lack of personal accountability.

Frank I see your side too though because you have to deal with these whining queefs when they’re looking for someone to blame other than themselves. Personally I’d just tell them to go piss up a rope, but it’s your house and your rules and I think most will respect your decision regardless of what it is.

 

[diverdon]

I don't use the PX much, other than group buys. Ive bought perhaps 20 things and sold only once. Yet if it goes away I'll miss it a lot because I've told my wife if something happens to me to sell most of my rifles here.

 

[deersniper]

I love the PX, it is great place buy and sell stuff. I generally have to buy something in order to get my hands on it to see if I like it or not. If you get screwed on here it isn’t Frank’s/sniperhide’s fault. We are all adults and you are well aware of the risks you are taking doing transactions on the web. Grow up and shut the fuck up.

This x100

Stupid snowflakes with zero personal responsibility ruining everything.

And if frank charges for it then he may assume some liability. Plus may have to do things like charge sales tax

 

[MK20]

Or make it to where only already well known members have PX access and new people have to be voted in by X number of already known PX members. Basically make it more exclusive and then incentivize the current members to keep exclusive and clean for themselves and any others who might join.

 

[Vexent]

I really enjoy a lot of areas of this site and also find the PX useful so I’d hate to see it go.

In my last job I managed one of the largest mobile wallets in the US including fraud mitigation so I can tell you with certainty that scammers are sophisticated and they will never stop. The best you can do is slow them down.

I’ve noticed that a lot of people with less than 100 posts can still create ads in the PX. Could you up it to 500 posts and create a hard rule on the site that just locks them out?

Many will just go find an easier target which is a good mitigation strategy (don’t be the softest target). And a fee wont slow many down because it’s a small price to pay vs some of the high dollar items listed.

My assumption is that most people are getting scammed because they want to avoid the small fee on something like PP and opt for payment options that offer no protection. You can’t fix stupid so IMO that is squarely on the buyer/seller.

Are you having any recourse brought against the site or is it just people whining that they got scammed?

We are all adults, people need to handle their business.

So I’ve been a lurker here for a while and finally made an account last week. I have tons of stuff i want to sell to the market Here, without paying i can get 100 posts in 5 days with the 20 post rule. On the other side i have 50+ trades through Reddit on GAFS, and had 350+ on guns for sale(RIp) I’ve never even encountered someone trying to scam except for once. It’s really easy to spot.

 

[MK20]

You just outed yourself.

 

[THEIS]

So I’ve been a lurker here for a while and finally made an account last week. I have tons of stuff i want to sell to the market Here, without paying i can get 100 posts in 5 days with the 20 post rule. On the other side i have 50+ trades through Reddit on GAFS, and had 350+ on guns for sale(RIp) I’ve never even encountered someone trying to scam except for once. It’s really easy to spot.

Hi,

Sounds like you require a commercial account here on SH.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[redneckbmxer24]

So I’ve been a lurker here for a while and finally made an account last week. I have tons of stuff i want to sell to the market Here, without paying i can get 100 posts in 5 days with the 20 post rule. On the other side i have 50+ trades through Reddit on GAFS, and had 350+ on guns for sale(RIp) I’ve never even encountered someone trying to scam except for once. It’s really easy to spot.

I’m guessing you’re one of those that would get scammed and then try to blame the site.

Seriously, you just admitted in the owner of the forums own fucking post ABOUT THE PX that your intention here is to get the 100 posts so you can hawk your shit here. You’re a very special kind of stupid.

As Bill Engvall would say... “Here’s your sign”

 

[Dthomas3523]

So I’ve been a lurker here for a while and finally made an account last week. I have tons of stuff i want to sell to the market Here, without paying i can get 100 posts in 5 days with the 20 post rule. On the other side i have 50+ trades through Reddit on GAFS, and had 350+ on guns for sale(RIp) I’ve never even encountered someone trying to scam except for once. It’s really easy to spot.

Well, since that’s the case. See you in 6 months. Make sure to upgrade your account then if you’d like to sell.

 

[Lowlight]

Welcome to my world,

LOL

I want to use SH as my personal Pawn shop, well that my friends is the why behind it all

 

[Lowlight]

Hmm, after thinking a bit, maybe it is my fault,

clearly I am scam worthy on several levels

 

[W54/XM-388]

Too bad there isn't some vigilante task force sponsored by the Federal Government that could go around dealing with online scammers in a personal manner.

Much like this movie suggestion:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Hmm, after thinking a bit, maybe it is my fault,

clearly I am scam worthy on several levels

They’re pieces of shit that live sad pathetic lives, most likely living in a poop hut in some third world country. I wouldn’t take it personally man, they do it on every platform. We even get scammed for product on Amazon by shit birds.

Like I said though, I understand where you’re coming from and the frustration of dealing with it. It fucking sucks and I wish I could line them all up and run them all over with a fucking steam roller.

 

[Lowlight]

I hate it for all of them, but there is nothing I can do...

We talk until we are blue in the face, we outline the methodology,

They use cut outs to get the Money,

Names and Emails dont match

Addresses are different than location

I mean damn, one used Lincoln‘s Childhood house as the mailing address, they just find a place where they can intercept the mail.

I am gonna try to do something to push that non_US Members stay out there, so if someone comes across a foreign member in the PX they will get banned and blocked because most are overseas gangs doing it. This is organized crime, you have to be on the alert.

The rules will change, the process will change the whole thing is gonna change

 

[Snuby642]

I read the px a lot.

I use it to judge populatity of an item or brand.

If it goes in minutes and ten people cry about missing it, it's better than a review elsewhere.

I never seem to get there quick enough or have money at the moment so no sales or purchasing to date.

I will miss it if Frank decides to remove it but can see the hassle of dealing with it.

 

[Baron23]

I am scam worthy on several levels

Is that like being sponge worthy? LOL



Of course its up to Frank what he wants to do...his site, his rules.

But I agree with others that if someone gets scammed then utterly and completely on them and that the site and site owner has zero responsibility or liability.....so quit sending whining fucking emails to them.

I have only bought a few items from the PX and indeed find it helpful. I would hate to see it go but if its causing too many issues for Frank...well, he'll decide what he wants to do and I personally wouldn't have even an iota of an argument with it. .

As others have said, pic with name/date, def a phone number and talk to the person, and use a method of payment with protection.

 

[KZP]

I am gonna try to do something to push that non_US Members stay out there, so if someone comes across a foreign member in the PX they will get banned and blocked because most are overseas gangs doing it. This is organized crime, you have to be on the alert.

One of my previous jobs had issues like this. Organized crime in China and Russia setup massive digital laundering teams, costing the company incredible amounts of money. At one point they were overtaking legitimate transactions in volume. Those groups are always out looking to take advantage of any system they can abuse.

 

[Lowlight]

The thing is, we remove, we ban stuff, we have a system that can see certain things.

What annoys me is the constant pointing the individual after we have removed them. If you know we ban them, why talk about it again. I get to warn others, but instead talk about the methodology, the mismatched addresses, the users that are doing the scam are part of a network. It;s not the same guy sitting in a basement, it’s a gang. The names will change on both sides.

The Red Flags are there, we talk about them, have stickies about them, it people not paying attention because they are racing too deal. It’s a deal because it’s a lie. They make multiple accounts at the same time and let one sit dormant for a while. We try to link them, but sometime they do it from different locations so to break the chain

 

[Praetorian_6]

There is no solution to this. Some people will take the risk, and some will not. To those that do: " You pays your money and you takes your chances "

Caveat emptor!

 

[Darryle]

Is it possible to put the PX behind a secondary firewall/password that prevented the general public from seeing it at all, like it didn't exist?

 

[MK20]

How about this,
if someone whines after reporting it once, ban them. It sounds like the whiners are more of a pain in the ass than the scammers.

 

[Sprayed99]

Is it possible to put the PX behind a secondary firewall/password that prevented the general public from seeing it at all, like it didn't exist?

There is, but I'm unsure if this forum platform supports it. I was an admin many years ago for an automotive forum. The best thing we did was the "hidden" marketplace. We had certain conditions in place and you could not get through to it until all conditions were met.

I believe SH had a similar setup years ago where you had a post minimum and you would get ass hammered for spamming to get your post count up... ah the good ole days. I know it is similar now but I think you can now pay to play. I spend a lot of time all over the forum, but will admit I surf the PX throughout most of the day.

The rash of new members has compounded the issues as well. I have sent multiple PM's to new members trying to inform them of the ways of the forum, but most of the time I get the "internet tough guy" response, then I just say the hell with it and often run across their name later with the BANNED tag below it.

This place is honestly the reason I got into longer range shooting. I have always hunted growing up, but the hide has pushed me into better gear and pushed me to invest time into the craft. I do not shoot competitively because of time, but I'm hopeful that will change this next year. When that comes I know the practice time and money invested should pay off. I know it has in the woods and filling the freezers.

Regardless what you decide to do Frank, I will still be here and contribute when I can and go through my normal on and off cycle of the online training. I appreciate the BS you guys put up with so we have a place to come and gain knowledge and talk shop.

 

[verdugo60]

Would hate to see it go, I have used it with success for years to buy and sell gear, help new shooters get started with quality used stuff and to upgrade or try something new. Never had a single transaction go bad because I buy from vetted people and try to ship fast, with tracking when selling something.

I have gladly kicked in to the small “pay it forward” fund to @lowlight because its a headache for him and I didn’t want to lose the service. This site provides a ton of knowledge as well as the ability to swap gear.

People too stupid to do their due diligence kind of have it coming, even though I hate thieves. They are a fact of life online, you just have to be smart.

 

[nmmi9100]

Fools get scammed. Buyers should perform their due diligence. Caveat emptor. An online Swapmeet should not be the site owner’s to police.

The feedback system and the rules Frank put in place are sufficient. The PX is one of my favorite parts of SH. I cruise it several times a day.

Without the PX, I’d likely only be on Snipershide a few times a week rather than several times a day.

/David

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Are all the scam accounts buy ins or do they actually interact for a valid 100 posts?

What is the buy in at now? Maybe it would help to price them out. Raising post count gives more time for the community to vet an individual.

$250 buy in
250 posts?

 

[lte82]

I’ve bought, sold, and traded here for years at this point. Mostly just to try new or different gear, never made a profit on any sale to be honest. Never been scammed, and never had any major issues. The vast majority of the people buying and selling are good folks, and it would suck to lose the PX because of the .1% of bad apples.

It’s the buyers responsibility to handle the transaction. If you met a guy in a Walmart parking lot to buy something, only to get home and realize it’s a fake item, do you expect Walmart to handle it? Sorry, that’s your own fault. If you want 100% buyer protection you should buy from a legit retailer.

 

[_Windrider_]

Is it possible to put the PX behind a wall open to residents of the US only and maybe a few friendly nations or individuals on a case by case basis? This isn’t perfect but it’s a start. Might be too much work though.

IP address region and home address need to match. I don’t think making it pay to play is good because that puts you directly in the middle of any fraud issues. But a signed disclaimer/release of liability signed by anyone who wants to play could also cover that.
id hate to see it go but jesus I don’t envy you for not wanting to deal with the amount of bullshit it’s bringing.

 

[KYAggie]

Although I’ve only bought here several times, all good experiences, I would hate to see the PX go away. I look at it daily hoping someone will dump a Origin short action close enough for a face to face exchange for $700 . In all seriousness, I hope there is a solution to slow down the scammers; some sort of back ground check, gun/rifle club membership where you actually have to show up personally some where. I don’t know, just thinking off the top of my head.

Personally when I buy from the PX I look at how long the seller has been here, how many posts, and if they list their location. If they are new, have a high post count, no location, they can forget me buying what they are selling.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Here is what I see someone doing in the future that can ease the scams from reaching completion status.
Someone is going to set a company up that is the intermediary entity of the transaction.
Buyer sends payment to broker/escrow agent.
Seller sends item to broker/escrow agent.
Broker/Escrow agents takes % off top of transaction.
Broker/Escrow entity sends product to buyer and payment to seller.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[_Windrider_]

Hi,

Here is what I see someone doing in the future that can ease the scams from reaching completion status.
Someone is going to set a company up that is the intermediary entity of the transaction.
Buyer sends payment to broker/escrow agent.
Seller sends item to broker/escrow agent.
Broker/Escrow agents takes % off top of transaction.
Broker/Escrow entity sends product to buyer and payment to seller.

Sincerely,
Theis

Ha. people wont even pay the paypal fee. But ill set this up.

 

[Lowlight]

The scam that prompted this post was textbook

they just didn't pay any attention, several got nailed and all chased a great deal

 

[_Windrider_]

The scam that prompted this post was textbook

they just didn't pay any attention, several got nailed and all chased a great deal

if its too good to be true......it usually is.

 

[candyx]

People can get scammed on every single platform out there that's why they have been using the term "Caveat emptor " for ages........

 

[davsco]

at least one other related site has classifieds and stuff like bear pit invisible until you've logged in and have x# posts.

 

[357Max]

Frank - You and the Mods have got to be pulling your hair out!

It would help a lot if it was possible to simply hide the PX from anyone who isn't logged on. I bet it would cut 2/3rds of the BS.

Below is an example of a simple google search for JAE chassis for sale. Almost any high end gear googled returns hits to Snipers-hide PX on first page. Paints a huge target for scammers on PX. The top 3 hits are in the business of selling shit (upside). Snipers hide isn't so all you get is the downside scammer BS to deal with in return for marketing PX to the web at large.

If you had to be logged on to see it, then all those google search hits should disappear.

I've only sold 1 thing on here & bought a lot. All to and from members only without issue. Actual Hide members are the only ones I want to deal with.
Half the responses I got on the item I sold were people with 1 post. The only explanation I could come up with is that they simply saw my add here from a google search and joined to respond. I don't blame them since the price I offered to hide members was hundreds cheaper then anywhere else.

I appreciate the platform and all the hard work invested by Frank and all the Mods to keep it running smoothly!

 

[silentwoods]

Would hate to see it go, I have used it with success for years to buy and sell gear, help new shooters get started with quality used stuff and to upgrade or try something new. Never had a single transaction go bad because I buy from vetted people and try to ship fast, with tracking when selling something.

I have gladly kicked in to the small “pay it forward” fund to @lowlight because its a headache for him and I didn’t want to lose the service. This site provides a ton of knowledge as well as the ability to swap gear.

People too stupid to do their due diligence kind of have it coming, even though I hate thieves. They are a fact of life online, you just have to be smart.

When I finally decided to be a member, I bought the "100" post count thing.

I haven't sold anything, bought a few, but mostly it was to help out a little with the site.

I'm perfectly fine with paying a monthly basis payment plan structure re: patreon type thing.

I like this site a lot and try to not post shitty, negative or anything else that detracts from this site's culture.

It's a diamond in the rough.

 

[Average guy]

I really love the whole site Frank. The PX is definitely an intergal part of the experience. I have dealt with what I thought were scammers. Long story short if it doesn’t pass the gut test it’s shit. I’m very appreciative of your efforts to safeguard the site. I will out any motherfucker that tries to undermine the integrity of this community.