Young Ranger Lookin for Help

[bantaman2]

my name is mike and i am brand new to this website, although i have been viewing it for quite some time. i decided to make the leap into joining because i have a really general question that i want to put out there:

you probably hear this alot, but i am attempting to put together or buy any type of SASS. I havent been sold on any brand, but because i am young budget is a little bit of an issue. I was looking to spend anywhere from 1200-2000 on the rifle itself, with a budget for glass later. would it be more cost effective to build it myself? or buy a used unit? i have no idea about anything really so i am completely open for suggestions of any kind. I want the accuracy to be competitive, but im not looking for the end all be all of accurate rifles. This will be my first step into the "long range" category so i am just looking for any help you are willing to offer.

thank you
MIKE

 

[Pigman]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

What is the rifle going to be used for mostly?

 

[Pusher591]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

If you are Military or LE check out RainierArms. Good people there and give good discounts to those serving. Last rifle I built I saved close to $400 on total build by using their discounted rates.

They have a lot of nice stuff. If you don't want to build they sale complete rifles/uppers from Noveske,POF,Stag, and a few others. You still get small discounts on those as well.

I say go Noveske. They make top Tier gear and their rifles are extremely accurate. Check out BravoCompanyUSA too, they are GTG.

 

[bantaman2]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pigman Jr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the rifle going to be used for mostly? </div></div>

It will be a platform that i will learn the basics of Long Range shooting, and call me gay, but i love the whole "tactical" piece of a SASS. and i plan to smoke a few coyotes here and there

 

[Pigman]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

Do you want a quad rail, an aluminum FF tube, or a tube that you can add rail pieces where needed?

 

[bantaman2]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pigman Jr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you want a quad rail, an aluminum FF tube, or a tube that you can add rail pieces where needed? </div></div>

a quad rail, any benefits or downsides of a quad rail?

 

[Pigman]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

You can mount more stuff on it, it looks cooler in my opinion, but it can be heavier than FF tubes. Also what caliber do you want?

 

[bantaman2]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

yeah they look way more bad ass lol. but the weight doesn't bother me much at all. i really want a .308 caliber. i want it to look cool, but still be able to perform decently and not break the bank because i am still a private

 

[Pigman]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

If you went 5.56, you could get a lower receiver of your choosing and then get a BCM Mk12 Mod 0 upper for $1300. As for a .308, I would go with a custom 20" .308 from Specialized Dynamics. Scott should be able to build you one to your specs for well under $2k.

 

[hognuts]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

DPMS makes a 6.5 Creedmoor with a 24" bull barrel, It is very accurate and cuts the wind better than the .308. It does not come with a quad rail, they have the "glacier guards", but you can customize anything you want, here is a pic of mine. It has newly been accessorized with my first suppressor! If you shop around you can find them for around a grand.

 

[gits]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: banta275</div><div class="ubbcode-body">my name is mike and i am brand new to this website, although i have been viewing it for quite some time. i decided to make the leap into joining because i have a really general question that i want to put out there:

you probably hear this alot, but i am attempting to put together or buy any type of SASS. I havent been sold on any brand, but because i am young budget is a little bit of an issue. I was looking to spend anywhere from 1200-2000 on the rifle itself, with a budget for glass later. would it be more cost effective to build it myself? or buy a used unit? i have no idea about anything really so i am completely open for suggestions of any kind. I want the accuracy to be competitive, but im not looking for the end all be all of accurate rifles. This will be my first step into the "long range" category so i am just looking for any help you are willing to offer.

thank you
MIKE
</div></div>

I have some good buddies where you are at over there. Go see your sniper section they will square you away. Check your PM also.

 

[DP425]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

Save up a little more until you get to $2600 and get a GAP 10. Might suck a bit right now having to wait a little longer, but it's high quality and hand built.

Think about it this way- the extra $600 is just four months of jump pay.

 

[bantaman2]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gits</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: banta275</div><div class="ubbcode-body">my name is mike and i am brand new to this website, although i have been viewing it for quite some time. i decided to make the leap into joining because i have a really general question that i want to put out there:

you probably hear this alot, but i am attempting to put together or buy any type of SASS. I havent been sold on any brand, but because i am young budget is a little bit of an issue. I was looking to spend anywhere from 1200-2000 on the rifle itself, with a budget for glass later. would it be more cost effective to build it myself? or buy a used unit? i have no idea about anything really so i am completely open for suggestions of any kind. I want the accuracy to be competitive, but im not looking for the end all be all of accurate rifles. This will be my first step into the "long range" category so i am just looking for any help you are willing to offer.

thank you
MIKE
</div></div>

I have some good buddies where you are at over there. Go see your sniper section they will square you away. Check your PM also. </div></div>

They have been decently helpful, but they dont really know where to purchase the equipment. my big thing is that i kind of want it soon lol. i go on leave in 2 days and then in the middle of next month i have to go to ranger school. and i want something waiting for me when i get home that i can look forward to using. Im going to trade off my good ol AR15 because im pretty bored of shooting it and i get to use almost the same thing at work every day. im looking to change up the pace a little bit

 

[tullius]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

Build it. Get what you can afford, learn in the process. You can upgrade later because you'll learn what you need & know how to accomplish it yourself. Get the best barrel you can afford, this is the boiler room of accuracy. Don't spend over $1200 on the rifle. Don't do it on credit. Don't over extend yourself. Don't even extend yourself. Save, save, save. Take what you saved by building yourself and put it into a Lee Challenger press and hand loading components. Learn how to do a ladder test. When you surpass the ability of the rifle, upgrade the trigger & glass. Ranger up.

 

[chittnp]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

Check your PM's

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

On a budget, get a used one and rebarrel it with a Rock or Bartlein tube along with a good trigger. I'm building two right now and I'll tell you it isn't any cheaper, at least not when you're doing it custom it isn't.

The accuracy of the rifle is in the barrel and trigger, the rest is up to you to drive it right.

 

[bantaman2]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

this has been extremely helpfull. KEEP THE INFO COMMIN!!! im a sponge to shooting information, so the more opinions and different sides of stories, the more advice i hear the better.

 

[SFC Carpentier jr]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

Welcome Ranger. Like many have said here I would start with a DPMS or Armlite and just shoot. Once you are ready to move up send your rifle to GAP and have them install a good barrel on it. The time you spend shooting a stock rifle you can be saving money to have it worked up. Or of course you can just order a GAP 10 and you will be GTG.

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

I would say wait.

I've been in your shoes. Oh, Lord have I been in them!

My advice for you is this. Save up as much money as you can right now. Go find a federal credit union that will give you a shared certificate with the highest interest you can get, and keep putting some money into it.

Presto! You have a gun fund that keeps adding money into itself.

Also, if you wait until you get that healthy pay increase at Specialist/Corporal/E-4 then you can add a large amount into that nice sized piggy bank.

Also consider the Thrift Savings Plan. I had a fellow NCO who did that when he first entered. He checked EVERY day, and sometimes every hour. When he retired he had enough to pay for a very nice house, in cash, and still have a fat wallet.

Consider the above for your tax return too, and before you know it you'll have one awesome dream gun.

 

[DP425]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

You're going to ranger school soon- why not wait on it and order a GAP. You must be at least a PFC to go to ranger school (since you said you're still a private, this is easy assumption)- I don't know what additional expenses you have, but you'll be there AT LEAST 61 days to save up the cash. And that's if you're good/lucky.

I know it's hard to wait, but don't pull the trigger too soon and then regret it. Go to school, when you get back, after you hit every fast food joint in Columbus, during one of your 2hr periods that you are not sleeping, call up GAP and place an order for a GAP 10. You will be getting top quality and if you want to sell it later on, you won't take as large of a hit as if you go with a DPMS or something of that nature.

You're young and you want it NOW! We get it- but we've also been there... Trust us... (well, maybe not with your money or your wife). Sometimes waiting is the smartest thing you can do.

 

[DP425]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmaHeavy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Also consider the Thrift Savings Plan. I had a fellow NCO who did that when he first entered. He checked EVERY day, and sometimes every hour. When he retired he had enough to pay for a very nice house, in cash, and still have a fat wallet.
</div></div>

No better advise has this topic seen than above! 100% special pays, 100% bonus pay, 100% incentive pay, 20% basic pay. Funds otherwise not taxed are not subject to the deferred tax on the TSP- in other words, you won't pay tax on the money you put in to it when you take it out so long as that money would not have been taxed in the first place.

 

[MD2Colo]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

should have 90 days of cash saved up from pre-ranger and ranger school...

good financial advice given out, too!

DPMS's SASS is a pretty decent rifle, I bought mine for 1550 so you shouldn't break the bank with that option. You might be able to go tag along with the sniper guys when they hit the range as a tabbed spec 4, prolly not as a PFC.
$.02

o yah go talk to the bn armorer. he prolly knows his stuff.

shit man, if you smoke ranger school and get in good with the right people, SOTIC next... think of the possibilities...
have a good one.

 

[HPLLC]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: banta275</div><div class="ubbcode-body">my name is mike and i am brand new to this website, although i have been viewing it for quite some time. i decided to make the leap into joining because i have a really general question that i want to put out there:

you probably hear this alot, but i am attempting to put together or buy any type of SASS. I havent been sold on any brand, but because i am young budget is a little bit of an issue. I was looking to spend anywhere from 1200-2000 on the rifle itself, with a budget for glass later. would it be more cost effective to build it myself? or buy a used unit? i have no idea about anything really so i am completely open for suggestions of any kind. I want the accuracy to be competitive, but im not looking for the end all be all of accurate rifles. This will be my first step into the "long range" category so i am just looking for any help you are willing to offer.

thank you
MIKE
</div></div>

I don't want to sound elitist- I'm not recommending Noveske or KAC- not that they aren't nice- but you sound like you are interested in utility and value before pedigree and relatively high prices.

I went through a similar research and purchase recently.

I don't think DPMS is the way to go (6063 upper/lower- craptastic YHM rail- stupid mangonel backup sights etc). Looking at these features- I REALLY doubt DPMS was seriously trying to compete in the SASS program. It looks more like they were putting together a rifle to sell to a lot of civilians as a "SASS" rifle which is lame IMO- entering a sub-par rifle into a military solicitation for a sniper weapon system.

LMT's MWS is 7075 [twice as strong as 6063] (upper and lower- monolithic rail system is std) Look on the forums and pick up a used LMT MWS for $1800-$1900. Find a guy who can load ammo to your specs [typically someone everyone knows loads ammo, and there are small ammo manufacturers in every state] and make 2.81" OAL 175grain SMK's with 45grains of Varget powder and a CCI#34 military primer. The guys on the forums are getting 2500FPS and that's enough velocity to reach 800+ meters with a load grouping .6-1MOA for most MWS shooters.

The New magpul LR20 magazine is made for COAL up to 2.82" and should work with the rifle for an affordable, reliable feeding system.

As a Ranger you'll probably be able to get on Promotive or will know someone who is in the tactical instructor or some other group with Leupold discounts.

When I was looking for glass, I picked the Leupold 4.5-14x50mm MKIV ERT with M3 knobs and a TMR reticle in the FFP option (the only reticle with FFP in that optic).

This is the same optic that New Zealand selected a couple weeks later for their LMT MWS DMR weapons.

The Leupold custom shop can burn you an M3 cam for the 175grain SMK at 2500FPS that will make engaging targets as easy as ranging them, doping / compensating for wind, and dialing range on the cam.

In the military I always thought it would be great to have a M24 with the 4.5-14x50mm optic from the XM107 50 cal. The optic simply has greater resolution, greater light gathering capability and is a superior optic.

With a suppressor, the 14X optic will probably permit you to see your own trace somewhat regularly at 300M+. This is on account of recoil and muzzle rise reduction the suppressor affords. I designed the RSTA suppressor for the auto-loading .308 precision rifle application and intend to mount one on my LMT MWS.

I went with Leupold super high MKIV rings in aluminum. Aluminum is 1/3 the weight of steel, and the steel rings are VERY heavy. The SR25 was supplied I believe with super high MKIV rings.

The promotive price was good, and the Larue SPR mount is a good item, but is probably 3 times the price of the promotive MKIV combination so the edge IMO goes to Leupold.

I used MKIV's in the Army on the 24 and XM107- the guys with the SR25's didn't have any issues with their MKIV's, and the M110's supplied mounts loosened regularly (rings). So I saw the SR25 / MKIV combination as superior to the jazzy tan purpose built mounting system of the M110 with its issues.

 

[KM375]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

Take a look at the Guns in the USASOC competition.

 

[Rovieairto]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

I'd use DPMS's LR308 receiver parts as the heart.

A good source of 308 parts:
http://www.rainierarms.com/

Stick with 308, 16"-20" barrel, some form of free-float tube.
A Rock River 2-stage NM trigger (buy it here)

6061 series aluminum alloy is just fine.
It may lack some of the strength of 7075 but it is tougher and has many desirable properties that 7075 lack.
There's no free lunch with anything including alloys.
7075 (even T-0) isn't compatible with extrusion processes DPMS uses to make some of their uppers.
Blah, blah, blah

Also, slow the fuck down! or you'll end up with no money, debt, and a bunch of useless crap made in china like the rest of the nation.

A rifle that works well will should end up looking good to you.
form should follow function, figure out who you are.
Unless this gun going in your closet only to come out to impress your friends, don't worry about how you'll look posing with it.
Put a cool sticker on it or something then.

Really you need to nail the barrel length first, and then go from there.

 

[BittenbytheBug]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

There are so many things that go with this:

Do you live in the barracks, what would your deployments be like (as in no notice ones, etc)? These are probably more important than a need to have something to look forward to after the challenge of Ranger school - and you'll be exposed to more of that there anyway.

My opinion - .308/7.62 is a bit over powered for yotes. And -are you thinking about reloading? Given your experience level you might consider buying a used firearm and see if this is what you really want. You can then later choose to upgrade the most important components (the barrel, trigger and optics) as time goes by. Another course of action would be to build it yourself, option 3 is to wait, and buy quality all the way around.

Most importantly - THIS IS NOT AN ITEM YOU IMPULSE BUY. There is more to finding a firearm that suits what you wan it to do than what I read above. Sorry the old Command Master Chief in me climbed out...

 

[Conrad101st]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

I agree, wait for it. You are going to be around gobs of this stuff over the next few years. You should get plenty of trigger time with the Bat-Boys.

 

[bantaman2]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

looks like i cant argue with the over whelming response. i am going to wait for a bit to see how i feel after school. this has been the greatest help. thanks go out to all of you and all of the different opinions that i just encountered

 

[Graham]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: banta275</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i am going to wait for a bit to see how i feel after school.</div></div>A wise choice.

 

[Gewehrsmann]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

Mike, There is a ton of good advice here, even some good financial advice, imagine that? I'm going to build up an AR10T into a SASS type rifle. The best advice here is to get through school all the while saving money for the project. The vision and dream of the rifle will give you something to think about through the rigors of school. I personally think the DPMS is a piece of shit and sold mine to clear it out of the safe. Consider a GAP or one of the Armalite AR10T variants. There are others including the LaRue and my favorite the JP LRP-07. While you are waiting, try out a few bolt action rifles, really nice ones like GA Precisions Crusader or Remingtons 40X. I would stick with the 7.62 simply because it will become the round you will be most familiar with (next the 5.56). As you expand your collection of rifles you can add other calibers like the 6.5's, but for now remember 7.62 ammo is everywhere. I have personally shot a 308 well beyond 800 meters with Palma rifles and with the M21. 7.62 Semi-autos will struggle a bit beyond 800 meters but with the right ammo you can get a bit beyond 800 meters, possibly to 1,000 but not with 18 inch barrels in a semi-auto.

 

[Rovieairto]

Re: Young Ranger Lookin for Help

I shoot the 155 SMK (2156) out of an 18.5" barreled AR.
It snaps supersonic overhead at 1000 yards, even at 800' msl in the winter. (My ballistics calculator said it would)
It actually hangs pretty well.
I don't doubt that it'll hold it together through the barrier.
The 308 is a good, honest round.