Your ELR Reloads

[Bigwheels]

Just a curiosity about just what tolerances YOU require in your ELR reloading?
Myself, I am pretty exacting with my 300WM loads. But there are some things that I do NOT do such as weight sort my brass, bullets, & primers. But I do neck turn, de-bur the flash holes, Trim to +/- .001", & sort these into lots. I use a Scott Parker trued scale, but don't split granules of H-1000. I do use a Wilson inline seating die, & keep my seating depth to +/- .0005", & runout to <.002", but prefer them to be <.001", & I straighten those that are out of my tolerances, & the few that don't cooperate will be marked, & used for sighters/shorter range. With these practices I am generally able to shoot to 1 moa, or thereabouts out to 1500 yds, & 2 moa to a mile or more. Not withstanding bad wind calls of course.(2000yds being my farthest to date)
So if you will post up your go-to ELR cartridge, & tolerances.

 

[Shoalwater]

I do almost the exact same as you except I don't neck turn. I never work on more than 50 rounds at a time and I never move on to the next step until I have complete the previous step for all 50 rounds. Most of my loads are very consistent and have very little vertical stringing. I figure if it already shoots better than I can, why waste time I don't have on extending an already long process.

 

[Dogtown]

My process has evolved, as I'm sure most others have as well. For me personally, the biggest area of refinement has been around making brass as uniform as possible which is worked out like this:

- neck turn to uniform thickness
- resize in bushing S die to uniform neck tension
- trim to uniform length
- uniform flash holes
- k&m chamfer tool for more gradual seating of BT
- uniform primer pockets
- sort brass within +/- 3gr

The last part about sorting by weight could be even more precise, but I find that it's not necessary. With .338LM brass if it's between 27.0 and 30.0 (I think that's the correct decimal location off the top of my head), then it goes in my ELR ready bag. Otherwise I get odd balls that usually jump out at 25.5 or 31.7 here and there, so they go in a plinking/subsonics ready bag.

For powder work I went back to an RCBS 1010 scale that I use in conjunction with an Omega Auto Trickler, though I don't actually use it to trickle anything. The process goes like this:

- use Lee scoops to fill a simple electronic scale (not a fancy $500 one) to get me in the ballpark
- weigh it on the 1010 scale and while it becomes stable, I start another throw
- turn on the auto trickler which will tell me if the scale is where it needs to be
- assuming it needs a bit more powder, I pinch a few kernels and drop them into the pan one by one until the sensor on the trickler tells me to stop. Over time I get a really good feel for how much it needs and how to release them one by one without oveloading the beam.
- verify that the scale is balanced, then charge the case with the powder
- take that new throw sitting in the electronic scale and start the process all over again

Then for seating, I've moved away from my classic methods and moved to a chamber-based LE Wilson die that I use with the K&M arbor press with the force meter. As I seat them, I keep an eye on how much force is required for each one and set aside any outliers, which is rare.

All of this attention to detail has paid off with more consistent velocities and accurate results at ELR distances. I really only go this nuts on loads that I intend to shoot past 1400m.

 

[Bigwheels]

Could you explain the reamer you use, & why in more detail? I haven't used a primer pocket uniformer or flash hole uniformer yet but have been thinking about it. Do you have any data on the benefits. I run Winchester brass which isn't as good as Lapua, & do have a few primer seating irregularities. But I've also been having problems with the WLRM primers since they stopped nickel plating them, & will be switching to either Fed215M or CCI250 when I can get some to try.

 

[Dogtown]

A while back I started really paying attention to seating primers uniformly instead of just by feel alone. K&M makes some handy tools for this. First, their deluxe priming tool has a dial indicator that will show you the depth you're seating to. It's a bit time consuming because for each one you first have to normalize the dial to the primer (takes all of 5-10 seconds), then you insert the primer and brass and start seating. You can still feel as it seats but also watch the dial to make sure you're seating to the same depth with each one. This of course also requires your primer pockets to be uniformed, so K&M's primer pocket reamers are used in a hand drill. I just add this step to my brass prep process and it doesn't take long at all.

Has that process made a marked improvement in my ammo? The jury's still out. Initially I did some testing with and without that step and the difference wasn't statistically significant enough to be definitive, so I still do it for now.

 

[Ryguy]

So Dogtown, did you run a Pearson Correlation, T-Test, Chi-square, or ANOVA to get your statistical results? Also, what did you set your alpha level at? What did your p value and r^2 come out to? I am kidding of course, however I did get an A in stats. Now for a serious question. I have noticed my Lapua brass has inconsistent sized flash holes and I have not noticed a difference in accuracy when uniformed. Also, have you noticed a difference when trimming to the same length? My groups shrank quite a bit when I started trimming everything to the same length rather than waiting until they reached max. Also, when I anneal, some of the bullets seat much easier than others in the same batch. This leads me to believe the neck tension is inconsistent. However, it has not made any difference with group size at all. A variable I have considered that may negate the neck tension inconsistency is powder choice. VVN570 may be a little different than others but I think the pressure curve eliminates some of the variance due to neck tension. That is, 570 may be slower initially to build pressure where it is able to negate the neck tension by equalizing pressures but then increase at around the time the bullet enters the lands thus, giving crazy small group sizes. What do yo think?

 

[Dogtown]

Nope, what I did was very simple - control group, test group, look at differences. Wasn't enough to rule out other factors, hence no Sigma 5. I suppose with a larger data set I could use stochastic sampling...

For me, the main issue is the differences between the control group that has the basic brass prep and the group with the more uniform prep are negligible when shooting relatively close where differences in velocity don't have as much of an effect. In a nutshell, I've found that my more uniform brass and consistent powder group is giving me better accuracy at longer distances, however groups at 100-200m all look the same. But those differences are still hard to quantify as the further I go out, the more other factors beyond my control play a role. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm doing my best not to fool myself at the same time.

 

[redd0311]

Tag

 

[wadcutter]

I try an keep my loads as uniform as possible without getting anal.
Some things are more important than others.
Consistent powder charge is very important.
The right clearance between the brass neck and chamber neck is important to reduce vertical.
The right amount of neck tension and consistent neck tension is important.
Bullets seated into the lands give better vertical when combined with bullets long seated with a chamber with a deep throat.

Bullet selection is important. I sort my bullets. They are sorted to reject the 2% of bullets that are out of spec for weight and bearing surface. These are then used for fouling the barrel after a clean. I then sort my bullets for length to batches that are within +or- 0.0025"
in length.

These bullets are put into boxes of 100 and I usually end up with a couple of hundred of each length when I do a bulk box of 500 or so.
I then just use up each batch until they are all gone then make an adjustment to my BC for the next batch. The difference in length does make a slight difference in BC.

 

[Bigwheels]

Wadcutter. When you are measuring your bullets are you measuring from both ends (boat tail/ogive) or just from base to ogive for bearing surface? My thought is the actual bearing surface may be equal, but moved slightly toward/away from the base giving a "false" bearing surface measurement.
What cartridge , & bullet are you running? Mine is a 300WM with 230 Berger Hybrid Target. I've never actually measured the Bergers so I probably should. I have weighed them in the past, & never found one in a box to be more than .1-.2gr different. I have noticed some more blemished ones in my latest few boxes though so I should check them I guess.

 

[JC Steel]

Here is what I do and here are my results,

338 Edge, Running a 300 grain Berger Hybrid at 2910 FPS.

Nosler 300 RUM brass necked up to .338.

I full length size, chamfer inside and out of mouth and then I am done!! LOL, its quick, but I find the nosler stuff to be pretty high end. So I am happy.

I am running 93 grains of H1000. SD of 9-10, 2910 FPS.

Its a MOA gun out to a mile. Or further, but I don't have valid testing for that yet. I have put probably 100 rounds on steel at 2000 yards, but its a big 30 inch round. So its fairly easy to hit when the wind call is consistent.

That is where I found my happy medium. It shot well at 93.7 grains too. Even though it was perfectly mild, I Thought during the summer I might see pressure, So I just left it at 93 grains. 93.7 grains produced 2950 FPS.

There is not a whole lot a work I do to the brass, I just start with good quality brass and be done with it.

If you check the number, not many guns can keep up with this 338 edge. It just smokes the lapua, smokes about anything smaller than 338, even some of the big stuff!! I am happy with it for sure.

Specs,

338 Edge
Stiller Tac Action
Rock Creek 30.5 inch AMU contour barrel
Timney Trigger
Manners T4A stock
Atlas LW-17 Bipod
Nightforce ATACR MIL-R scope
Spurh 34mm Mount
Thunderbeast 338P suppressor

 

[Bigwheels]

I have thought about going with the Nosler brass. The price is kinda high though. Of course I probably couldn't find any for sale on the planet now anyway. I can't even get Winchester brass now.
I wish Lapua would make 300WM brass again. But I may give the Nosler brass a try if I can find some.

 

[Brasscow]

Here is what I do and here are my results,

338 Edge, Running a 300 grain Berger Hybrid at 2910 FPS.

Nosler 300 RUM brass necked up to .338.

I full length size, chamfer inside and out of mouth and then I am done!! LOL, its quick, but I find the nosler stuff to be pretty high end. So I am happy.

I am running 93 grains of H1000. SD of 9-10, 2910 FPS.

Its a MOA gun out to a mile. Or further, but I don't have valid testing for that yet. I have put probably 100 rounds on steel at 2000 yards, but its a big 30 inch round. So its fairly easy to hit when the wind call is consistent.

That is where I found my happy medium. It shot well at 93.7 grains too. Even though it was perfectly mild, I Thought during the summer I might see pressure, So I just left it at 93 grains. 93.7 grains produced 2950 FPS.

There is not a whole lot a work I do to the brass, I just start with good quality brass and be done with it.

If you check the number, not many guns can keep up with this 338 edge. It just smokes the lapua, smokes about anything smaller than 338, even some of the big stuff!! I am happy with it for sure.

Specs,

338 Edge
Stiller Tac Action
Rock Creek 30.5 inch AMU contour barrel
Timney Trigger
Manners T4A stock
Atlas LW-17 Bipod
Nightforce ATACR MIL-R scope
Spurh 34mm Mount
Thunderbeast 338P suppressor

What's your loaded round COAL and are you mag feeding or single feeding?

 

[JC Steel]

I am mag feeding them. With seekins 338 mags.
I think my overall length is 3.960

 

[wadcutter]

Wadcutter. When you are measuring your bullets are you measuring from both ends (boat tail/ogive) or just from base to ogive for bearing surface? My thought is the actual bearing surface may be equal, but moved slightly toward/away from the base giving a "false" bearing surface measurement.
What cartridge , & bullet are you running? Mine is a 300WM with 230 Berger Hybrid Target. I've never actually measured the Bergers so I probably should. I have weighed them in the past, & never found one in a box to be more than .1-.2gr different. I have noticed some more blemished ones in my latest few boxes though so I should check them I guess.

Bigwheels,

I perfected my loading with a .284 Winchester in 1200 yard and 1500 yard F-Open competition. The lessons I learnt from this I then applied to my .375 cheytac, .338 RUM and .338 Edge.
The smaller .284 is an ideal testing cartridge, what you see with it at 1200 yards can then be used for the others out to transonic.

I sort base to Ogive when I cull the out of spec bullets. Then I sort from base to tip. This seems to work to hold a SD of vertical of about 1/2 MOA at 1200 yards with the .284 win. The Berger bullets are great but I still get a few dud bullets with split jackets in the nose and these are easily picked up when you measure the overall length of each bullet as they are about 40 thou shorter.

 

[VaRandy]

For thousand yard competition I did all the above plus weighing and ranking by weight the cases, primers and bullets. Weighing of charges was to postage stamp weight on 30 caliber rig.

I have added a .408 wildcat to my arsenal and will probably end up at the same level even though shooting will be 1-2 miles. Before you do that, there should be some things that can be determined at 1000 yards.Habits, good or bad, are hard to break!

I would add that some people are adverse to the work to reach the best possible consistent loads, some maybe from laziness, and but maybe another that would not want to give up the excuse that soothing in the loading caused the unacceptable results. When your rounds are virtually perfect clones of each other and you have top notch equipment and smiting, you have to accept that it is YOU as a shooter that is responsible.