Your Expertise

[Skeee]

All,

I am an eager to learn newbie here & have prepared myself for the potential chastizing I may take for this post. I do not mind putting in the effort to do the research but I am requesting your expertise to assist me in getting pointed in the right direction. Here is a brief background of myself, my current setup and my intentions. I thank any in advance that reply to this post and assist me.
Experience: 8+yrs USMC, Multiple award expert, M16A2, out to 500yds. 6+yrs hunting, recreational shooting up to 350yds.
Setup: Remington 30.06, Choate floating barrel stock, Extra high cheek rest, Harris Bipod, Leupold VXII 3x9x40 Optics.

Intent: Hunting & recreational shooting up to 1,100yds. Develop and hone my marksmanship skills and abilities in order to confidently be a consistant and accurate marksman in various terrains and weather conditions.

Thoughts: I am debating whether to upgrade to a Remington .308 and Optics to Nightforce 3.5-15x50 (per my research on using the optics thread on this site) or buy a DPMS LR-308 AP4 Semi-Auto 7.62mm/.308 Carbine with Nightforce 3.5-15x50 Optics & Harris Bipod

Questions:
1. Rifle Selection thoughts/suggestions (bolt or gas)?
2. Thoughts on my selection of Optics?
3. Aside from the obvious (camo etc.) a Combat pack with all weather data book & pen what other gear would you recommend?

Again, I appreciate your assitance, expertise and patience with me.

 

[shankster..]

Re: Your Expertise

Man, I hate when someone actually does their research, asks a legitimate question, and has proper spelling/ punctuation.

You don't below here.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Your Expertise

Rifle: Bolt. Upgrade to a 308? FROM a 30-06? That is not necessarily an upgrade. I had a tactical rifle built in 30-06 and am supremely pleased with same. I think I have also opened a few eyes at the ranges and shoots I have attended with the old cartidge. It isn't dead. I would stay with the 06 especially if I wanted to shoot past 1000yd.

Optics: Leupold is making soem really nice glass in FFP with mil/mil options. I would stick with Leupold Mark 4.

Gear: Not much to tell you...sorry. I killed some over 70 deer in my career wearing blue jeans and an OD field jacket. I do have an old ALICE pack for when I would camp overnight.

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Your Expertise

Sounds like you have everything you need already!

06 is a great round!

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: Your Expertise

Gas guns are more than capable of keeping up with a bolt gun in the accuracy department.

I find its more enjoyable toshoot precision bolt guns. Precision gas guns are like driving a sports car in a traffic jam, theres always an urge to run them fast. I could bring 50 rounds to a range session with a bolt gun and keep myself happy for a while. When I was shooting a gas gun I would go through 3 20 round mags of 175 match ammo in less than a half hour...not good on the pocket book at all!

Aside from that they are fun to shoot and require a bit more focus on the fundamentals as bolt guns are much more forgiving.

 

[shark0311]

Re: Your Expertise

I would look at the availability and cost of match grade ammo, desired ballistic coefficient of available bullets and consider whether or not you want a long action or a short action. The 7-08 is a great all around round as well as the 7mm rem mag and 7mm wsm. 30 cal rounds are readily available and seem to be the "go to" for hunting and shooting at distance.

I prefer the 7mm due to the high BC available. My only regret is getting the rem mag instead of the short mag. Cycling the bolt on a short action is much quicker.

 

[Skeee]

Re: Your Expertise

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gear: Not much to tell you...sorry. I killed some over 70 deer in my career wearing blue jeans and an OD field jacket. I do have an old ALICE pack for when I would camp overnight. </div></div>

As for gear I was referring to more of what I may need if I wanted to dabble in competitions?

 

[Skeee]

Re: Your Expertise

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shankster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Man, I hate when someone actually does their research, asks a legitimate question, and has proper spelling/ punctuation.

You don't below here.

</div></div>

I am eager to learn as much as I can in regards to precision shooting, ballistics, optics etc. Thank you for the feedback.

 

[Skeee]

Re: Your Expertise

I'm sure many will say that I need to make a decision on weapon and optics, as far as Hunting or if I wanted to dabble with competitions. My 30.06 has done a great job but from what I have been reading, the .308 seems to be the caliber of choice. The last few years I have not been able to find the time for hunting and find myself shooting more on a recreational level now and really want to reach out and touch something at 1,000+yds.

 

[Killer Spade 13]

Re: Your Expertise

Stay with the '06, Son. She'll never let ya down.

The '06 is an EXCELLENT round, it's just that it's not as popular as it once was. It's ballistics haven't changed over the years.

Not going to start the .308 vs the 30-06 debate all over again, but suffice it to say you've a very stable platform.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Your Expertise

I think you already have a good outfit.

I'd stay with the '06 chambering, but if that's a sporter barrel, you could improve on that with a Varmint weight premium aftermarket barrel. It should provide a more stable zero. This will be a lasting upgrade, so quality has good value here, expect to pay about $300 for the right level of quality, and any of the better known makers will serve you well.

Go long as you can, 28" is not unreasonable on an LR gun in the .30-'06 chambering. For 175's a 1:12" twist is good enough, but anything much heavier will require a 1:10".

Before you go heavier, let me warn you, 50-60 rounds of .30-'06, the usual F Class match course ammo requirement, can be punishing. The 175 is fully adequate, is no pansy where recoil is concerned, and belting out a slew of 220's can wage a serious toll on a shooter.

As optics go, I'd consider more magnification than a top end of 9x. Typically, 6-24x40 will serve you better at distance.

Optics can be replaced sometime later, once the startup has been completed, and getting started soonest has some value. I use a Tasco 6-24x42 Varmint Target MilDot (VAR624X42M)for under $100. There are lots better optics out there, but this is a plenty good enough starter for now. For one thing, it has 75+MOA of elevation adjustment available, and many of the higher priced ones are not so fortunate.

I don't pamper my four of them and they are still going good as new after at least 5 years. Once you have a better handle on the process and its requirements, you can upgrade this; and the original works really well on a 22 afterward.

I would reserve the bulk of my expenditures for a reasonably decent handloading setup and quality handloading components. The 175SMK and IMR4064 will get you headed toward a decent load that is good to at least 1Kyd, maybe 1100yd. To get good at this, you're gonna need a lot of ammo, and handloading allows this to happen with better ammo at less cost.

Meanwhile, save the big gun for matches and other serious purposes. Get a cheap, basic, consistently OK but not BR accurate shooting 22LR; and do upwards of 80% of your practice/training shooting with that. Big guns are too valuable to waste on the mundane chores, and going overboard chafing at wringing major accuracy out of your 22LR trainer is counterproductive.

...Oh, and bye the bye, welcome aboard, Shipmate, and Semper Fi...

Greg

 

[Skeee]

Re: Your Expertise

Killer Spade 13: Thank you

Greg Langelius *: Thank you for the info. From what I have read, the differences between the two boil down to just about ones personal preference. Ballistics are very close in comparison, slightly in the 06's favor due to the larger size of the cartidge kick is not quite as bad and barrel life seems to be greater with the .308. I believe my stepfather used to or has the equipment to re-load, so I think I will learn how to do that as well. I will definately look into a 22LR trainer. Oohraah

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Your Expertise

My approach to recoil involves ballasting the stock. However much more it needs to slammer past before it reaches you, the smaller the resulting recoil.

Many composite/polymer stocks are hollow and the void is accessible through the butt end. I think the Choate works that way. If you remove the pad and stuff a plastic bag into the void, it can be filled with buckshot. The buckshot can be further stabilized by coating it with epoxy, but I'd only do that if the shape of the void allows the ballast, bag and all, to be removed through the butt. You may want to shed the weight for hunting, walkabout, etc.

You can usually boost the rifle's mass by several pounds this way, and cheaply, too. That can go a long way toward mitigating excessive recoil, repetitive firing, from the prone or bench.

Or maybe you can do an external mass addition inside the 'Dragunov' cutout.

My .22LR trainer is a very basic Savage MKIIF with the very same Tasco 6-24 scope I mention above. CCI blue box Standard Velocity Target brand works well in mine, and doesn't cost the farm.

The .260's trajectory is a good bit flatter than the .308's, and it pretty closely mimics the .30-'06's trajectory. From my viewpoint, the two of them outperform the .308 by a very perceptible margin.

When and if you're definitely going to handload, get a second barrel chambered for .260; both chamberings use the same bolt face diameter. The key advantage of the switch-barrel rifle is that it allows the same platform/investment to handle multiple chamberings, which is what we old Marines used to call "a potent force multiplier". Keeping the original sporter barrel allows the platform to go a roamin' much more efficiently.

Greg

 

[Skeee]

Re: Your Expertise

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When and if you're definitely going to handload, get a second barrel chambered for .260; both chamberings use the same bolt face diameter. The key advantage of the switch-barrel rifle is that it allows the same platform/investment to handle multiple chamberings, which is what we old Marines used to call "a potent force multiplier". Keeping the original sporter barrel allows the platform to go a roamin' much more efficiently.

Greg </div></div>

The Choate stock is pretty heavy and solid. Recoil isn't much of an issue for me, yet anyways. I will look into the .260 as well. The switch-barrel rifle, a Marine's way of making the most with the least in a cost effective way...lol

 

[Skeee]

Re: Your Expertise

Bump

 

[mexicanmatch]

Re: Your Expertise

Stay 30.06, may be get a custom barrel as suggested with a PT&G reamer and some other things and let the fun begin.MM

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Your Expertise

Tune up the -06 and put it in a stiffer stock like a McMillan or Manners et al. A fresh barrel with a little weight and massage of the action will be less expensive than a new rifle. If you keep the barrel weight to medium heavy and 20" your -06 will shine. The savings from a new rifle can also be used to set up a long action box magazine bottom metal, then you are money ahead on the new scope, one piece base, and rings.
Youe only weak link in the current system is a light barrel, and a flexible stock, two piece base and 'hunting' level rings. The action is solid and reliable. Use the scope until it breaks and save the money you will need to upgrade it while you shoot it.
The fact that you have solid Marksmanship skills given by the Corps is a good thing. Moving into LR shooting will open up another entire box of frustration as you try to learn and master the LR properties of rifle, wind, and art, but if you do it with one gun, master it with one gun, you will win or lose with that gun but losing will be a top ten, or not a too bad showing.
Then again, you can sell off the stuff for the -06, dump the whole thing and leave it for a hunting rig, then spend lots of money for a brand new competiton worthy rifle. Eat lots of raman, buy really expensive equipment and wait a long time before actually getting out onto a range whbile your ol lady rants at what you are spending

Semper Fiiiii!

 

[Skeee]

Re: Your Expertise

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Then again, you can sell off the stuff for the -06, dump the whole thing and leave it for a hunting rig, then spend lots of money for a brand new competiton worthy rifle. Eat lots of raman, buy really expensive equipment and wait a long time before actually getting out onto a range whbile your ol lady rants at what you are spending

Semper Fiiiii! </div></div>

Switchblade,

Thank you for all of the good advice. I have the itch to get the DPMS LR-308 24. I like the assault look but in the event I did choose to sell my current setup, I wouldn't even know what to ask for it. I will definitely take what yourself as well as the other members have suggested into consideration.