Your thoughts on receiver sets?

[Srikaleak]

I'm about to purchase a receiver set to begin my SBR build. It's going to be a 11.5" .223 wylde AR15. I was planning on picking up the JP forged set with trigger to start off the build. I was wondering if there are better values out there. I have contemplated
Noveske
Aero
BCM
Battle Arms Dev
Seekins
I really like the tight fit of the JP but I feel like AR15s don't need to be that expensive. But I do want accuracy out to 200 yds. And it's not like the options I've listed are that much cheaper either. I just want to be sure what I commit to.
Your thoughts?

 

[Acer76]

I'm about to purchase a receiver set to begin my SBR build. It's going to be a 11.5" .223 wylde AR15. I was planning on picking up the JP forged set with trigger to start off the build. I was wondering if there are better values out there. I have contemplated
Noveske
Aero
BCM
Battle Arms Dev
Seekins
I really like the tight fit of the JP but I feel like AR15s don't need to be that expensive. But I do want accuracy out to 200 yds. And it's not like the options I've listed are that much cheaper either. I just want to be sure what I commit to.
Your thoughts?

If I had a set budget, I’d focus the majority of funds on the upper. IME, high performance upper remains high performance when switching from one lower to another.

YMMV

 

[Snuby642]

You could always upgrade a lower later, but buy once cry once still applies.
Check out bcm enhanced lower kit, good value, trigger good enough for a 200 yd gun.
I just diyed a h2 buffer for one of my lowers, test ran good today.

Edit - not on an sbr build!

 

[Snuby642]

Sorry scratch the upgrade later stupidity I said above.
You have to engrave the sbr lower and get your stamp.
You are married to the damn thing, go get a good lower, you wont be changing that.

 

[longshot2000]

I agree with posts above. The lower does nothing but hold the trigger and butstock and magazine. I am over-emphasizing, but it really is generic. The upper, for the most part is as well. I mean, you need to have a solid upper and a square and snug front face. Your money is in the barrel, optic and mount. Everything else is far back in an 5.56 AR platform, since the design parameters are all mil-spec. The bolt either works great and headspaces, or it doesn't. (bolt would be after the first items, then upper, blah blah blah.

Then, there is the guy who puts it all together that matters a whole lot.

When you say you want a 200 yd gun, the bar is pretty low. All the brands mentioned can get you there.

ETA: Speed reading, did not see it was an SBR. I amend my remarks, only to the extent that if you go through the trouble to spend time and money on an NFA item, get it done right. Nothing to do about accuracy. Comment on lower being the least important still holds, but if you are going to keep this thing and feed it ammo, do it right. Not on a budget

 

[smokin.338]

Aero Precision is hard to beat for the money... especially their enhanced receiver upper ! Aligning the gas tube is a No though.

 

[FatBoy]

Talk all the shit you want but I built 3 ARs last year with Anderson Lowers and forged generic Midsouth shooter supply uppers. Money went into Geissele triggers and we do our own barrels with (of all things) Green Mountain Gunsmith special blanks. All of them are 3/4 MOA shooters. We face all of our receivers and loctite all the barrel extensions in. They all lock up tight and run 77s like a champ. The 12.5" with Sig 3.5Moa dot makes hits in steel IPSP almost as fast as you can pull the trigger, which is WAY overkill for an SBR. Never tried to shoot accurately because it would look ridiculous having a NXS hanging out over the muzzle brake.

That said, if you're spending the time and effort to do a form1, buy something you feel you're going to love because you're going to have it awhile. I get the budget thing, but what's a couple hundred bucks when you're going to wait 7-9 months for the stamp.

BTW, I engrave my lowers before I apply for the stamp. Had a buddy have a lower fucked up bad by the engraver after he got the stamp and what a shit show that was. I'd rather grind or shitcan a $50 lower than go through that.

 

[Snuby642]

A stamped and engraved sbr lower reciver is not a consumable, in this case the entire rest of the firearm is.
I think the op gets that, some others not so much.

A 200 yd accuracy requirement is being realistic, probably has plenty of long guns.
I think a billet lower reciver would be a wise choice for the longterm if funds are available.
Finding a competent engraver is tough.
I ran engraving for a while and it is not that easy to set up on a part like a lower.
A machined billet lower has a truer exterior surface to work with. .

Running a manual engraver is an artform demanding precision.
Running a cnc engraver its all about the setup process.
A 50$ lower is setup scrap.

 

[b505jcm]

You definitely want the best lower you can afford. But I wouldn't buy a cheaper barrel or bolt carrier to get a fancier receiver set if I had X dollars to spend. But SBR's are basically a lifetime purchase so build it the way you want. I really like CMMG's new rip stock system so an SBR is tempting for me as well, but with the advancement in braces I don't see myself making that leap.

 

[Srikaleak]

Doesn't the upper and lower receiver fit also matter? A matching receiver set will have less slop then two different receivers mashed together. Decreased slop should help increase accuracy potential right?

 

[gro]

I have really liked american defense manufacturing lowers. It is completely ambidextrous, bolt catch and release, and magazine release. I wish that would have been my sbr'd lower. But mine was a bcm lower from G and R tactical which has been good as well.

 

[Srikaleak]

I have a Noveske gen 3 matched set. It's beautiful man. Very tight. Precise. With a F1 .223 Wylde barrel. Nothing out shoots it... except my BCM upper matched to a, wait for it, Anderson lower.
The Anderson fits the BCM very well with very little play. The Anderson also fits a Noveske Reeve (1st gen) I have very well.
Bottom line is I really can't see an appreciable difference in the performance of any of my upper lower combos. Although when I say that, none are "loose".
However, the Noveske matched set makes me feel good!

I think Mega/Zev offers some of the best value and quality out there. The old Mega labeled stuff is usually on sale since they are changing over to Zev Tech

BCM is a solid option. Good track record for performance. Not heinously priced. Currently working on two SBR's

With a SBR I hate to say it but I buy the receivers I like the looks of since I am already paying $200 stamp and you are pretty much married to the receiver for life, you might as well like it.

I have never experienced high end receivers being inherently more accurate than cheaper receivers, with that said I don't have any "precision" oriented ARs

I'd agree with Baron85. Seen way to many people form 1 crappy receivers. Whatever you buy make it work your while.

Depends on what you're using it for. If you're paying for 2A, BAD, or V Seven prices then it's only worth it if you're building it for weight. If it's just a knockaround gun then any receiver set will do just fine. JP makes fantastic products but I don't see myself buying a receiver set from them anytime soon unless it's a side charger. Honestly if you're looking for accuracy/reliability the receiver set doesn't matter that much as long as there isn't too much slop. I tend to put my money in barrels, gas blocks, and BCG's. I also like to add the JP SCS to my builds.

Most of my rifles are built on Cross Machine Tool sets and I will stack them against anyone.

From the other thread

 

[Snuby642]

The actual accuracy benifit may be impossible to measure / prove, especially in an sbr.
I bought 5 sets of recivers from a single mfg.
All fit perfectly and can swop out.

I purchased several uppers as complete assy.
One is so tight its got to be wiped down before assembly.
Another is a little rattling.
Both still work both probably effect accuracy slightly.
Can I shoot good enough to tell no , I don't have matching rigs to compare different barrels etc.

Go get your choice of a perfect lower reciever, carefully select an engraver and send off for the stamp.
You will have plenty of time to buy everything else a piece at a time before nfa is done. Lol

 

[Random_Scrub]

I sbr’ed an aero lower. At no point have I thought to myself that I should have splurged and gotten a more expensive lower.

 

[Baron85]

There won't be any benefit to the more expensive losers as far as shooting, they pretty much all use the same grips, triggers, mag release ect. Some allow the short throw safety or ambi releases. The big thing here is an SBR is a long term commitment, both in the initial wait and the fact that you pretty much have to keep it for life. The fancier lowers won't shoot better, they won't feel better in your hand since your holding onto the grip which will fit all lowers. It basically comes down to looks. I have never seen any lower break or fail in any way so durability should not be an issue.

My thinking is, if this is for some type of work or practical use where the gun is going to get beat up then just get a standard lower, for me and I believe most people the SBR is a cool novilty item that's fun, in that case I want to enjoy the look of my SBR since that's part of the fun. I have seekins, spikes gen 2 billet, quarter circle 10, and spikes honey badger lowers on my sbrs, I picked each because I liked the unique look, not because of performance or feel. I also have normal spikes, Rock River, Anderson Arms, and mega lowers that are not SBR. If you close your eyes you can't tell which is which by holding the rifle, they all function flawlessly (as far as receivers, having gas issues with a 458).

1 think I would add is for an SBR, before you send in your stamp papers, assemble the lower and go shoot it with a legal upper to verify function. If everything works, send lower to be engraved, once you receive the lower back and engraving looks good submit paperwork. I had an engraver engrave the wrong persons info on my quarter circle lower, thankfully I did not submit the paperwork yet.

 

[Strykervet]

I don't get all these people with the engraving issues. I looked up the minimum requirements on ATF, then went to a laser engraver and he does it for ten bucks or something, I forget, the first one costs more and after he has it setup second, third whatever are practically nothing. Right height, right depth, perfectly straight and where I want it. If I knew I was gonna have to engrave this may have just gotten a punch cut.

Don't SBR a budget lower. You'll regret it. Don't ask me why, it's not like you'll be selling it so resale doesn't matter and a Mega works as well as a KAC in most instances. It's just a "thing" I guess.

That said, I have one Mega SBR'd. Why is it the red headed step child? The rest are Noveske and an LMT.

IMO, Noveske makes one of the best forged milspec receivers out there. They just do a good job. KAC has the resale value though. Also, some budget uppers will not line up properly with KAC, Noveske or LMT lowers, they leave a helluva gap in the back and/or between them and which ones do it varies. Typically I use Noveske uppers, they generally have less variations when mating with other milspec parts. They work fine with the KAC and LMT lowers too. If using cheaper parts, you kinda want to stick with matching components. Mega/Mega, Aero/Aero.

The only stripped lower I'd pay more for than a forged KAC lower is a 3gen Noveske if I wanted that (I have one, it's nice) or the built ambi KAC lower, which is an animal of it's own and comes complete with all parts. That one will retain it's resale value probably better than any of them. It's also $850. But in all honesty, you can't build one like that for the same price. That would be a damn nice one to SBR too.

 

[Mwalex]

Cross Machine will engrave the lower in-house.

 

[Snuby642]

I didn't know nfa engraving requirements allowed for laser engraving (etching)?
Is this new?

Please advise.

Edit- evedently you can get laser engraved to meet nfa standards.
I got mine done a long time ago, not available then.
Probably a price drop on equipment made this possible, and available.

Damn I'm old. Lol

 

[FatBoy]

1 think I would add is for an SBR, before you send in your stamp papers, assemble the lower and go shoot it with a legal upper to verify function. If everything works, send lower to be engraved, once you receive the lower back and engraving looks good submit paperwork. I had an engraver engrave the wrong persons info on my quarter circle lower, thankfully I did not submit the paperwork yet.

^ this is just an inconvenience prior to paperwork. Seen shit like this too many times. Even if you do engrave your trust, etc and change your mind, no harm done. Nobody gives a shit until you try to go under 16". You won't even notice it.

 

[padom]

So anyone concerned about accuracy forged receiver set think again. I have built 4 SBR uppers, 2 on a Aero Precision forged uppers and the last 2 on BCM MOD4 forged uppers. All shot from Aero Gen2 forged lower. The first 2 I am going to post below were built on Aero Precision forged uppers. BCM MOD4 thermofitting uppers can be had for $60 right now and would be my only choice if using a forged upper.

10" Rainer Ultramatch 300blk AeroPrecision Forged Upper
7x5 @ 100yds 125 TMK's 18.6g H110






10.5" Daniel Defense .223 Wylde 1:7 Aero Precision Forged Upper
55 Vmax H4895 Seating Depth Test @ 100yds 5 Shot Groups







Now, that we got out of the way that accuracy comes from the barrel and forged upper are just as accurate as billet. I recently have been buying MEGA billet uppers and lowers from JSE which are at blowout pricing right now. Picked up 2 sets of each in the past few weeks. The upper to lower fitment on these is tighter than any billet set Ive used and Ive used them all. The MEGA SBU upper is extra beefy and you realize it the moment its in your hand for extra stiffness.

MEGA AR15 Billet Upper - $125

http://www.jsesurplus.com/AR-15SBUBilletUpperwithoutSideChargingHandleSlotJSEEXCLUSIVE.aspx


MEGA AR15 Billet Lower - $138.68

http://www.jsesurplus.com/megaarms-4-1-1.aspx


Put a Toolcraft NIB or Melonite BCG in there and get a top of the line WOA, BCM, Rainier Ultramatch, etc barrel in there and you'll be very pleased with the end result.

 

[hitman]

I have many AR rifles and have probably owned about all of them including JP's. Honestly like most say the Aero is hard to beat. They fit together like a glove and they are priced great! They seem just as good or better then the Noveske's I had, Knights and about anything.

That being said I did just go with a BAD upper and lower combo, but honestly totally just for the looks and a little weight savings. I just got the lower today and it is a work of art really. The upper is on the way back from Craddock. He built an 11.5" upper with the BAD and a Fortis Nighrail. I wanted something that looked totally different so it fit for what I wanted with this one. I also have three Aero upper/lower combos that are perfect. Depends on what you want.

 

[Snuby642]

You know on other posts Padom we have seen you boast about billet recivers recently,
and have had you bash my billet preferance on other ocasions. Seems today your forged recivers are the shit?

Just in general would be nice if you picked one or the other and did not go all wishy washy on the subject between posts?
Seems like bohemian rapsidy, (any way the wind blows type shit to me).

Nothing personal just wondering if you would take one stance?

 

[padom]

You know on other posts Padom we have seen you boast about billet recivers recently,
and have had you bash my billet preferance on other ocasions. Seems today your forged recivers are the shit?

Just in general would be nice if you picked one or the other and did not go all wishy washy on the subject between posts?
Seems like bohemian rapsidy, (any way the wind blows type shit to me).

Nothing personal just wondering if you would take one stance?

Dont get your panties in a bunch, you must be having a bad night. Go ahead and show me where I ever said forged receivers suck and billet receivers are the only way to go?? You wont find it, cause it didnt happen. The only thing wishy washer are your facts. You saw me post an insane deal on MEGA billet receivers which makes going forged not as enticing. But I can show you which way the wind blows...

I dont care what you think would be nice. Each part has its place. OP asked about forged, he got info on forged. Want to save money, go forged. Want the best of the best, go billet. Neither has anything to do with accuracy till you start getting into long heavy barrels then I would definitely recommend a beefy, reinforced billet upper.

And yes, my forged receivers are the shit.

 

[Snuby642]

There we go a stance at last, billet best of the best, if funds are available.
Forged, workable and can maintain hi standards at a better price point.

That is exactly my stance as well.

I just thought a billet lower for an sbr made better long term sense for durability / fit to spec.
I build my ar's for me to shoot and grandkids to rebarrel.

Got approved for 2 more sbrs but paperwork says draft?
Called them, left message?

Just seemed to shoot out my 16 inch bro barrel recently? Wtf only 1800 rounds of 55g 3200 fps.
Any thoughts on that while I fix my panties?

 

[longshot2000]

Doesn't the upper and lower receiver fit also matter? A matching receiver set will have less slop then two different receivers mashed together. Decreased slop should help increase accuracy potential right?

Not really. Just nice to have it fit.

 

[Srikaleak]

There are numerous articles stating that forged is more durable than billet due to the way the metal is pressed which allows the grain of the metal to be in a ... and I lose the meaning of the explanation at that point. Can anybody clarify? I see that @padom makes the case that billet is equivalent to forged now. Is it because the barstock is of better quality or the cnc machines are more precise?

 

[346ci]

All of my ARs are built on Mega sets, SBRs included. Go with a quality upper and lower, you will be fine.

On that note, Mega sold out so the original receivers are getting hard to find. If I had to pick a new set today, Seekins.

I haven't held a Zev to see if they kept the Mega quality up.

 

[plong]

Doesn't the upper and lower receiver fit also matter? A matching receiver set will have less slop then two different receivers mashed together. Decreased slop should help increase accuracy potential right?

Nope... might make you feel better, but accuracy? IMHO: Nope, not at all. YMMV, of course ?

 

[plong]

All of my ARs are ...
I haven't held a Zev to see if they kept the Mega quality up.

If my recent experience is any reflection of the whole, the "new" ZEV recievers are at least the measure of their Mega predecessors. IMHO the fit and finish is a bit of an upgrade over the more recent Mega recievers I'd purchased (and thats coming from a Mega fan).

 

[mdmp5]

Doesn't the upper and lower receiver fit also matter? A matching receiver set will have less slop then two different receivers mashed together. Decreased slop should help increase accuracy potential right?

Zero effect on accuracy. Just eliminates the knocking

 

[mdmp5]

So anyone concerned about accuracy forged receiver set think again. I have built 4 SBR uppers, 2 on a Aero Precision forged uppers and the last 2 on BCM MOD4 forged uppers. All shot from Aero Gen2 forged lower. The first 2 I am going to post below were built on Aero Precision forged uppers. BCM MOD4 thermofitting uppers can be had for $60 right now and would be my only choice if using a forged upper.

10" Rainer Ultramatch 300blk AeroPrecision Forged Upper
7x5 @ 100yds 125 TMK's 18.6g H110






10.5" Daniel Defense .223 Wylde 1:7 Aero Precision Forged Upper
55 Vmax H4895 Seating Depth Test @ 100yds 5 Shot Groups







Now, that we got out of the way that accuracy comes from the barrel and forged upper are just as accurate as billet. I recently have been buying MEGA billet uppers and lowers from JSE which are at blowout pricing right now. Picked up 2 sets of each in the past few weeks. The upper to lower fitment on these is tighter than any billet set Ive used and Ive used them all. The MEGA SBU upper is extra beefy and you realize it the moment its in your hand for extra stiffness.

MEGA AR15 Billet Upper - $125

http://www.jsesurplus.com/AR-15SBUBilletUpperwithoutSideChargingHandleSlotJSEEXCLUSIVE.aspx


MEGA AR15 Billet Lower - $138.68

http://www.jsesurplus.com/megaarms-4-1-1.aspx


Put a Toolcraft NIB or Melonite BCG in there and get a top of the line WOA, BCM, Rainier Ultramatch, etc barrel in there and you'll be very pleased with the end result.

Don’t think I’ve ever seen a BLK out shoot a 223. That’s gotta be the best groupings with a 300 I’ve ever seen. I’m still trying to break 1 moa with mine. Mind you, I’m likely not using the right bullets

 

[346ci]

If my recent experience is any reflection of the whole, the "new" ZEV recievers are at least the measure of their Mega predecessors. IMHO the fit and finish is a bit of an upgrade over the more recent Mega recievers I'd purchased (and thats coming from a Mega fan).

Good to know, will consider them if I build another, thanks

 

[padom]

Don’t think I’ve ever seen a BLK out shoot a 223. That’s gotta be the best groupings with a 300 I’ve ever seen. I’m still trying to break 1 moa with mine. Mind you, I’m likely not using the right bullets

BLK shoot a 223?

I can do that all day long with my 300blk. I cant help it yours shoots like shit. You should stop trying to measure holes with your eyes over the interwebs.

10.5" Rainier Ultramatch 300blk New Barrel Break In




H110 / 125TMK OCW

 

[mdmp5]

BLK shoot a 223?

I can do that all day long with my 300blk. I cant help it yours shoots like shit. You should stop trying to measure holes with your eyes over the interwebs.

10.5" Rainier Ultramatch 300blk New Barrel Break In




H110 / 125TMK OCW

You know I said out shoot right? I was complimenting your blk shooting.

And I’m not alone. I’ve seen many guys do work ups with 3 different bullets and powder, 25 different combos and charges and they get one questionable good group, and that’s with a bolt gun

 

[padom]

You know I said out shoot right? I was complimenting your blk shooting

My apologies, I thought you were calling me a liar. Haha

 

[akg102]

If my recent experience is any reflection of the whole, the "new" ZEV recievers are at least the measure of their Mega predecessors. IMHO the fit and finish is a bit of an upgrade over the more recent Mega recievers I'd purchased (and thats coming from a Mega fan).

Agreed -- I've owned both Mega and Zev receiver sets. Doing a 308 build on the Zev large frame as we speak with a PR steel 13.5" barrel. Everything fits like a glove. They're high quality, maybe better than my previous Mega's and the slimline wedge lock handguard is awesome.

 

[mdmp5]

My apologies, I thought you were calling me a liar. Haha

Haha a little touchy are we today

 

[padom]

Haha a little touchy are we today

Lack of sleep. Haha

 

[mdmp5]

Lack of sleep. Haha

 

[natdscott]

Lowers are a trigger hanger.

Uppers are the rifle.

Spend on the rifle first, then the ammo, then the trigger, then the stock, then magazines, and only THEN should you bother with something OTHER than a mil-spec forged lower.

I have had and/or worked on and/or loaded for varmint and competition uppers from 0.250 MOA up to about 0.700 MOA, and a Rimfire training upper that will go under 1/2" at 50.

The common them for all of these is that they were fired on the same FORGED STAG lower and the same trigger, the two of which are probably north of 15,000 cycles by now.

I won't be changing the lower anytime soon.

-Nate

 

[Red343]

I like the JP and Noveske receiver sets. Also check out Ascend Armory, I used one of their receiver sets for my Valkyrie build and it was top notch and aesthetically pleasing.

 

[natdscott]

CMT makes Noveske.