Zeroing with a 44.4 moa scope base

[CEO10KaDAY]

Howdy gun sport enthusiasts - happy Black Friday.

I just bought a Spuhr mount for my 338LM that has 44.4 moa or 13 mil worth of tilt and have some questions on zeroing it.

First thing I did was take my scope - and dial it all the way down. I had 30 MOA worth of adjustment down before it hit its limit. Then I took my kestrel and calculated how far I’d need to shoot for a 14.4 moa adjustment (I have all my ballistics set) and got 735 yards.

So I’m curious in general how to zero with a scope mount this steep.

I’m thrilled with the purchase because now I can shoot two miles, and the mount only cost me $250! Just curious what the other ELR guys do.

Am I truly done zeroing at 100? Or do I just hold a POA 44 moa below the bullseye and go from there at 100?

Thanks.

 

[AMMOWASTER]

If you have to shoot up close you could make your own target with offset aiming points for whatever you need. Confirming as far out as possible seems best if you are trying to shoot really far away.

 

[CEO10KaDAY]

If you have to shoot up close you could make your own target with offset aiming points for whatever you need. Confirming as far out as possible seems best if you are trying to shoot really far away.

Thank you that makes sense. I have a target stand that holds about 4 feet’s worth of cardboard so that should do the job just fine. But I like the idea of confirming out as far as possible.

 

[Tokay444]

Is there a zero stop interfering with the elevation turret travel? 30moa isn’t a lot.
What scope is it?

 

[Taylorbok]

If you get a scope with 100 moa of internal adjustment you'll still be able to zero at 100 yards.
But yes as you said you basically have a zero at 735 yards or what ever your calculator spit out based on your ballistics.
You can hold under for closer shots if your reticle allows it but it'll be 14 moa ish not 44

 

[CEO10KaDAY]

If you get a scope with 100 moa of internal adjustment you'll still be able to zero at 100 yards.
But yes as you said you basically have a zero at 735 yards or what ever your calculator spit out based on your ballistics.
You can hold under for closer shots if your reticle allows it but it'll be 14 moa ish not 44

Yea good point you’re right. Not 44. I have the Zeiss LRP S5 with 140 total MOA adjustment range.

 

[Tokay444]

You should have plenty of travel to zero at 100 still, unless your rail has inclination as well. Even still… you have 40mils of travel.

 

[CEO10KaDAY]

You should have plenty of travel to zero at 100 still, unless your rail has inclination as well. Even still… you have 40mils of travel.

Well, from my previous zero point I could only dial down 30 MOA before the the turret bottomed out. The zero stop has no effect it wasn’t in use.

Yes the rail also has 20 MOA.

bore height is 1.5 on the new Spuhr mount which is what my last mount was.

I’m anticipating to be 14 inches high at a hundred.

 

[Tokay444]

So now you have 64.4MOA of elevation in your mount, and 140 of total travel in your scope. Whats half of 140?

 

[CEO10KaDAY]

So now you have 64.4MOA of elevation in your mount, and 140 of total travel in your scope. Whats half of 140?

Yup!

Not sure why you’re asking what half of 140 is, the previous zero wasn’t in the middle

 

[Tokay444]

It wouldn’t be. You had at minimum 20moa of base.

 

[Taylorbok]

Yup!

Not sure why you’re asking what half of 140 is, the previous zero wasn’t in the middle

with a flat base the 100 yard zero should be very close to the center of the optics travel.
If your scope truly has 140 moa travel you should still be able to zero at 100 yards.

You said the zero stop wasn't in use but my guess is it was just so far down you never got to it and now have. Look into it.

 

[CEO10KaDAY]

I don’t agree with you - like I said with the turret adjusted all the way down, I’m still anticipating to be 14 inches high at a hundred.

 

[Tokay444]

Then your scope doesn’t have 140moa of total travel. Easy enough to count.

 

[CEO10KaDAY]

I think you’re misreading everything I’ve said lol

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

I don’t agree with you - like I said with the turret adjusted all the way down, I’m still anticipating to be 14 inches high at a hundred.

So, you can dial up 140 moa with your current setup? Since you should be bottomed out.

 

[Tokay444]

I think you’re misreading everything I’ve said lol

Maybe, but I don’t think so. What I can do, is simple math.

 

[Taylorbok]

I think you’re misreading everything I’ve said lol

No he's tracking 100%
@Tokay444 is correct.
Your scope has 140 moa of elevation. From zero that is 70 up and 70 down. You now have 64 MOA of cant in the system you should still be able to dial to 100 yard zero. According to what you have told us something is stopping you at 120 MOA.

 

[CEO10KaDAY]

So, you can dial up 140 moa with your current setup? Since you should be bottomed out.

I have 141.5 total moa - I just did it from top to bottom.

No you guys are definitely smoking something - the zero was NOT in the mid point. I said this a hundred times. From the previous zero in my old mount, I only had 30 down to go before bottoming the turret out. For some reason you guys took this as I meant my zero stop - which is NOT engaged.

I only had 30 minutes to go down before bottoming the turret out and I just bought a new scope mount that has 44.4 minutes built in. WHICH IS MORE THAN 30…. The remainder is what I should be high at now at a hundred yards.

You’re simple math implication is hysterical.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

I have 141.5 total moa - I just did it from top to bottom.

And you've attempted to zero at 100yds and you can't?

Does your action rail have an incline?

 

[Tokay444]

I have 141.5 total moa - I just did it from top to bottom.

No you guys are definitely smoking something - the zero was NOT in the mid point. I said this a hundred times. From the previous zero in my old mount, I only had 30 down to go before bottoming the turret out. For some reason you guys took this as I meant my zero stop - which is NOT engaged.

I only had 30 minutes to go down before bottoming the turret out and I just bought a new scope mount that has 44.4 minutes built in. WHICH IS MORE THAN 30…. The remainder is what I should be high at now at a hundred yards.

You’re simple math implication is hysterical.

Of course it wasn’t in the mid point. You had a minimum of 20moa to account for.

 

[Tokay444]

Considering your bullet should still be rising at 100, mathematically you should have 7.5+MOA to spare.

 

[Tokay444]

Optic has 140moa of travel. 70 would be the zero in a "perfect" world. You added a 44moa mount, so that's 26 moa left.

Which means your rifle needs more than 26moa of adjustment to zero.



You either have a 20moa rail on the action or a barrel that is indexed down.


FWIW, no one usually adds more incline than their optic will zero at 100yds. You usually add enough incline to zero and then hold once you move our further than you have allowable elevation. Or get a prism to attach to the optic like a Charlie Tarac.

He has a 20MOA base as well. 64.4MOA including the mount.

 

[Tokay444]

Are you sure when you dialed the additional 30moa on the turret, you didn’t go up?

 

[Taylorbok]

I have 141.5 total moa - I just did it from top to bottom.

No you guys are definitely smoking something - the zero was NOT in the mid point. I said this a hundred times. From the previous zero in my old mount, I only had 30 down to go before bottoming the turret out. For some reason you guys took this as I meant my zero stop - which is NOT engaged.

I only had 30 minutes to go down before bottoming the turret out and I just bought a new scope mount that has 44.4 minutes built in. WHICH IS MORE THAN 30…. The remainder is what I should be high at now at a hundred yards.

You’re simple math implication is hysterical.

No we aren't smoking anything. It is simple math. You should have been able to dial down 50. (not 30)

Either way your scope has 140 moa +. You've got 64 MOA on the gun so your 100 yard zero should be roughly 6 MOA off the bottom. That extra 1.5 there isn't any way for us to know where the extra is so you could add .75 to that 6 and should be close.

What ever go shoot and if you cant zero at 100 come back and well try and help you figure it out.

edit: for the record I run a 120 moa scope with a 60 base and can zero almost perfectly at the bottom of travel to allow all useable elevation. (it's actually in mils)

 

[CEO10KaDAY]

Of course it wasn’t in the mid point. You had a minimum of 20moa to account for.

Which way do you think it’s tilting the scope?

 

[Tokay444]

To cancel out the inclination of your rail and mount, you need to dial down. Not up. Otherwise what would be the point of adding inclination. It’s to give you more UPWARD elevation.

 

[CEO10KaDAY]

No we aren't smoking anything. It is simple math. You should have been able to dial down 50. (not 30)

Either way your scope has 140 moa +. You've got 64 MOA on the gun so your 100 yard zero should be roughly 6 MOA off the bottom. That extra 1.5 there isn't any way for us to know where the extra is so you could add .75 to that 6 and should be close.

What ever go shoot and if you cant zero at 100 come back and well try and help you figure it out.

edit: for the record I run a 120 moa scope with a 60 base and can zero almost perfectly at the bottom of travel to allow all useable elevation. (it's actually in mils)

If I bottom the turret out and I’m still high at 100 how do you explain that? And how do you solve for? lol…..

 

[Tokay444]

If I bottom the turret out and I’m still high at 100 how do you explain that? And how do you solve for? lol…..

Shoot the gun and report back.

 

[Tokay444]

Which way do you think it’s tilting the scope?

You’re dialling down, right?

 

[CEO10KaDAY]

Shoot the gun

You’re dialling down, right?

Yes obviously….

I think it’s pretty straightforward to me. But you really think after dialing the turret all the way down I’ll be low? Can you propose a measurement of how low?

It’s straightforward to me, with my old base I had 30 moa left to dial down before bottoming the turret out, the new scope mount is tilted 44.4 moa, which means i should be 14.4 moa high at 100yds after dialing all the way down.

 

[Tokay444]

They straightforward math is up there. You’ll be 6moa(ish) low, if your barrel isn’t pointing down.

 

[Rob01]

You should have no issue zeroing at 100 with that scope and 64 MOA of cant. I have the S3 4-25 which has 46.5 mils of elevation and with 60 moa of cant that I use I am at about 41 mils so I have about 5.5 mils down left. You should have similar.

 

[Tokay444]

What was the inclination on your old mount?

 

[CEO10KaDAY]

What was the inclination on your old mount?

Zero

 

[tsavo303]

If I bottom the turret out and I’m still high at 100 how do you explain that? And how do you solve for? lol…..

Then you shouldn’t have used such a canted base. If you are zeroing at close range .
don’t forget that if you have a target with a significant poi/ poa offset, target will also have to be perfectly level.
also How many times with a non canted base was .0.0 adjustment perfectly zeroed. Never. So no chance that zero with be the value of the canted base dialed into your scope.

 

[hlee]

Take the rifle to the range.

Get you windage adjustment set at something like 25 y. Get the elevation on the paper, but don’t fret too much.

Go to 100y and refine your zero.

Until you have taken the rifle to the range and actually shot it, this is all just mental masturbation.

Come back if you have problems…

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Yes obviously….

I think it’s pretty straightforward to me. But you really think after dialing the turret all the way down I’ll be low? Can you propose a measurement of how low?

It’s straightforward to me, with my old base I had 30 moa left to dial down before bottoming the turret out, the new scope mount is tilted 44.4 moa, which means i should be 14.4 moa high at 100yds after dialing all the way down.

You're going to have a barrel that is fairly curved and indexed down if you're 14moa high once you get to the range.

You have 6moa left in your optic after adding the 44 moa base along with the 20moa rail. That means your impacts at 100yds have to be 20moa off.

 

[CEO10KaDAY]

Y’all have to be trolling

 

[Huskydriver]

What rifle is this on?

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Y’all have to be trolling

Nope. It's really that simple.

In a perfect world, you should have 6 moa to play with (obviously it will never be perfect, but 6moa is plenty). And you're saying not only do you not have that 6 moa, you are losing another 14moa somehow.

That's not good.

 

[CEO10KaDAY]

What rifle is this on?

AI AX338

I could shoot the dick off a bee at 100 yards with my old scope mount. That mount was a 0 moa mount. And from that point of a perfect zero all I had left to dial down was 30 moa. However, I’m now getting a 44.4 moa scope mount, which means I should be 14.4 high at a 100 with the turret all the way dialed in.

44.4 - 30 = 14.4.

The slant of the rail itself is redundant because it’s not changing - just going to a 44.4 moa mount from a 0 moa mount.

 

[Tokay444]

The slant of the rail is redundant guys.














But we’re trolling.

 

[6.5SH]

AI AX338

I could shoot the dick off a bee at 100 yards with my old scope mount. That mount was a 0 moa mount. And from that point of a perfect zero all I had left to dial down was 30 moa. However, I’m now getting a 44.4 moa scope mount, which means I should be 14.4 high at a 100 with the turret all the way dialed in.

44.4 - 30 = 14.4.

The slant of the rail itself is redundant because it’s not changing - just going to a 44.4 moa mount from a 0 moa mount.

You said you had a 20 MOA rail above:

Well, from my previous zero point I could only dial down 30 MOA before the the turret bottomed out. The zero stop has no effect it wasn’t in use.

Yes the rail also has 20 MOA.

bore height is 1.5 on the new Spuhr mount which is what my last mount was.

I’m anticipating to be 14 inches high at a hundred.

No one is trying to troll you.

 

[CEO10KaDAY]

Rail and scope mount are not the same thing.

 

[CEO10KaDAY]

The slant of the rail is redundant guys.

The rail isn’t changing. It was already a 20 MOA rail before with my 0 MOA mount.

 

[Tokay444]

The rail isn’t changing. It was already a 20 MOA rail before with my 0 MOA mount.

You still have to add it to the 44.4 MOA mount, which means it’s the furthest thing from redundant.

 

[CEO10KaDAY]

Considering your bullet should still be rising at 100, mathematically you should have 7.5+MOA to spare.

This is also a myth you should go experiment with - bullets don’t rise when they come out of the barrel.

 

[CEO10KaDAY]

You still have to add it to the 44.4 MOA mount, which means it’s the furthest thing from redundant.

You’re missing the entire point. The entire point is the rifle was perfectly ZEROED. This means the point of aim equals point of impact. I’m now* slanting it an additional 44.4 MOA when all I have left in my scope is 30 MOA.

I will be high at 100 yds - and won’t be able to dial down anymore.

If this doesn’t make sense to you, I suggest learning how this shit actually works.

Point of this thread was to get info from ELR shooters who actually know wtf they’re talking about and what distances they like to zero to.

Also: for what it’s worth, a canted MOA base is NOT taller in the front, it’s taller in the back. I feel like you might want to know that since you said it was “inclined” above.

;-)

 

[Tokay444]

This is also a myth you should go experiment with - bullets don’t rise when they come out of the barrel.

When your barrel is pointing up, they fly on upward trajectory. How else do you think you shoot farther distances? At 100 yards, that bullet he’s yet to reach max ordinate.