Rifle Scopes Schmidt and Bender 5-25x56 vs Vortex Razor Gen II 4.5-27x56

[teddyw19]

Looking to get one of the two scopes. I have never seen a S&B for lower than what i'm guessing is their minimum advertised price but . was wondering what I could find one for. I definitely want FFP. Other than that looking to hear from someone who as experience with either or both of these optics and looking for the pros and cons. Am new to the forum so thanks for your help!

 

[Rob01]

I have owned 3 S&B 5-25 scopes and used them in matches since 2006 and kept them on hand even when I shot for other companies because I could count on them but now I own 3 Razor II scopes and like everything better about them than the S&Bs and sold off the S&Bs. The glass is a push but the Razor II has better knobs that are locking, audible and tactile clicks and nice spacing on the 10 mil per turn and also offers the clickless zeroing for a perfect zero. No more having to be a little off. Better reticles in the Razor with the 2C working great for long range with it's useful but not cluttered Christmas tree in the lower quadrants, small open center and line thickness of .03 mils so doesn't cover a lot of the target and the illumination illuminates the whole reticle. Also the illumination location is better as it's right off the parallax and not up on the tube where left hand shooters sometimes have issues with bolt contact. Both have plenty of elevation but the Razor II has about an extra 18 MOA of elevation.

The only thing that I like better about the S&B is the 10 meter parallax but not enough to put it over the Razor II which adjusts down to 32 yards.

The Razor does weigh about 10 ounces more than the S&B but once mounted the weight isn't felt on the rifle.

The Razor obviously has a better warranty with the Vortex VIP warranty, which not only covers and mechanical scope issues, which the Razors have had very few, but also accidental damage like dropping the scope, accidentally running it over with a truck or having it caught in a house fire. That is nice peace of mind.

 

[teddyw19]

I have owned 3 S&B 5-25 scopes and used them in matches since 2006 and kept them on hand even when I shot for other companies because I could count on them but now I own 3 Razor II scopes and like everything better about them than the S&Bs and sold off the S&Bs. The glass is a push but the Razor II has better knobs that are locking, audible and tactile clicks and nice spacing on the 10 mil per turn and also offers the clickless zeroing for a perfect zero. No more having to be a little off. Better reticles in the Razor with the 2C working great for long range with it's useful but not cluttered Christmas tree in the lower quadrants, small open center and line thickness of .03 mils so doesn't cover a lot of the target and the illumination illuminates the whole reticle. Also the illumination location is better as it's right off the parallax and not up on the tube where left hand shooters sometimes have issues with bolt contact. Both have plenty of elevation but the Razor II has about an extra 18 MOA of elevation.

The only thing that I like better about the S&B is the 10 meter parallax but not enough to put it over the Razor II which adjusts down to 32 yards.

The Razor does weigh about 10 ounces more than the S&B but once mounted the weight isn't felt on the rifle.

The Razor obviously has a better warranty with the Vortex VIP warranty, which not only covers and mechanical scope issues, which the Razors have had very few, but also accidental damage like dropping the scope, accidentally running it over with a truck or having it caught in a house fire. That is nice peace of mind.

well you have sold me on a razor gen II. I get a nice discount from them anyways so I appreciate your advice!

 

[scudzuki]

I have owned 3 S&B 5-25 scopes and used them in matches since 2006 and kept them on hand even when I shot for other companies because I could count on them but now I own 3 Razor II scopes and like everything better about them than the S&Bs and sold off the S&Bs. The glass is a push but the Razor II has better knobs that are locking, audible and tactile clicks and nice spacing on the 10 mil per turn and also offers the clickless zeroing for a perfect zero. No more having to be a little off. Better reticles in the Razor with the 2C working great for long range with it's useful but not cluttered Christmas tree in the lower quadrants, small open center and line thickness of .03 mils so doesn't cover a lot of the target and the illumination illuminates the whole reticle. Also the illumination location is better as it's right off the parallax and not up on the tube where left hand shooters sometimes have issues with bolt contact. Both have plenty of elevation but the Razor II has about an extra 18 MOA of elevation.

The only thing that I like better about the S&B is the 10 meter parallax but not enough to put it over the Razor II which adjusts down to 32 yards.

The Razor does weigh about 10 ounces more than the S&B but once mounted the weight isn't felt on the rifle.

The Razor obviously has a better warranty with the Vortex VIP warranty, which not only covers and mechanical scope issues, which the Razors have had very few, but also accidental damage like dropping the scope, accidentally running it over with a truck or having it caught in a house fire. That is nice peace of mind.

Rob covered all the bases, nothing to add except some don't like the color of the Razor G2. It's a great scope that can be had for a very reasonable price if you shop around.

 

[jsimonh]

With the price drop by SB on new models and the fact you can catch used ones for 2500-2900, I personally think it's a closer call. I've had 2 Gen2's and now 2 SB, and I prefer the SB. If it was still a grand difference in price I'd probably lean towards the Razor, but it's not that big a difference anymore especially if you go used. The only thing that I prefer on the G2 is the 10 mil turret spacing. I don't know why everyone is trying to put 12-14 mils per turn. I like the glass better in both SB's but that's subjective so take it with a grain of salt. No matter what I prefer on the SB, someone will just say the Vortex is better. I'd say at the price if these scopes you really need to get behind them to decide for yourself.

 

[Covertnoob5]

I've had s&b scopes before, and while the glass was good, I much preferred the reticle and feature set of my gen 2. Only scope I like better than my gen 2 is my TT.


Covert is as Covert does.

Plenty of good feedback on the scout site.

 

[schmi015]

Just got an email yesterday from MHSA or Eurooptic with S&B 5-25's with p4f for $2250-$2400.

 

[IanHusaberg]

I'm going to add my $.02 here. I'm like and own the Vortex Razor Gen 2 4.5-27x56. It came down to price first($2,500), reticle design(ERB-2C)2nd, Illumination knob built into parallax 3rd. I also like the color of the razor. Little did I know when I bought it, it would match my new Barrett MRAD, in multi-role brown! Dead sexy!!!

S&B scopes were in the 4K range when I was shopping two winters ago. S&B got left in the dust with Warranty/Price/PRS shooters using them in comps. There's a reason why everyone is using a Razor gen 2!! It's called Value......

 

[Vargmat]

After just over a year with the Razor Gen 2, I made the switch and went for a Schmidt & Bender PM2 5-25x56 with the MSR reticle.
These are my thoughts and experiences: The Razor G2 is a very nice scope, I would say that it has the best turrets going with the possibility to set true zero and an overall good feel to them. It tracks 100% as far as I can tell you. The glass is good, close to great, it bleeds a little colour in various light conditions but nothing terrible, the reticle is good but not perfect for what I do, and it is somewhat heavy, not a dealbreaker but still.

The Schmidt & Bender PM2 has good turrets, which as far as I can tell tracks 100%. The glass is stellar, with higher contrast than the Razor G2 and I dont experience the colour bleed. The biggest selling point for me however was the MSR reticle. In the type of competition I do, all targets are set at unknown distance, you need to range them and then shoot. The MSR is THE go to reticle for this, as far as I am concerned. Sure, Minox has similar reticles but around here a PM2 is cheaper than a Minox which makes it a very easy choice.
The Razor G2 has reticles with a fine .1 MRAD scale inte them, the problem for me is that it starts too high in your field of view, and its not really practical to use it above 20x of magnification. This and its tendancy to show a greenish edge on top of some targets and a purple fringe on the bottom sometimes made it hard to tell where the acctual target started and ended. This did not show all the time but in some light conditions it was very apparent. Using the sunshade helped a bit but it never fully went away. The PM2 does not do this, and I can use the .1 MRAD scale at full magnification if I want to,

If it was going on a range gun where you shoot at known distances, the Razor G2 is an awesome scope. But for me, the colour bleed is a let down and the EBR-1C reticle needs a little tweaking. But then agian, the MSR reticle is around and I am a big fan of it. So I made the move over to the Schmidt.

 

[IanHusaberg]

After just over a year with the Razor Gen 2, I made the switch and went for a Schmidt & Bender PM2 5-25x56 with the MSR reticle.
These are my thoughts and experiences: The Razor G2 is a very nice scope, I would say that it has the best turrets going with the possibility to set true zero and an overall good feel to them. It tracks 100% as far as I can tell you. The glass is good, close to great, it bleeds a little colour in various light conditions but nothing terrible, the reticle is good but not perfect for what I do, and it is somewhat heavy, not a dealbreaker but still.

The Schmidt & Bender PM2 has good turrets, which as far as I can tell tracks 100%. The glass is stellar, with higher contrast than the Razor G2 and I dont experience the colour bleed. The biggest selling point for me however was the MSR reticle. In the type of competition I do, all targets are set at unknown distance, you need to range them and then shoot. The MSR is THE go to reticle for this, as far as I am concerned. Sure, Minox has similar reticles but around here a PM2 is cheaper than a Minox which makes it a very easy choice.
The Razor G2 has reticles with a fine .01 MRAD scale inte them, the problem for me is that it starts too high in your field of view, and its not really practical to use it above 20x of magnification. This and its tendancy to show a greenish edge on top of some targets and a purple fringe on the bottom sometimes made it hard to tell where the acctual target started and ended. This did not show all the time but in some light conditions it was very apparent. Using the sunshade helped a bit but it never fully went away. The PM2 does not do this, and I can use the .01 MRAD scale at full magnification if I want to,

If it was going on a range gun where you shoot at known distances, the Razor G2 is an awesome scope. But for me, the colour bleed is a let down and the EBR-1C reticle needs a little tweaking. But then agian, the MSR reticle is around and I am a big fan of it. So I made the move over to the Schmidt.

Are you saying you made the move back to a S&B? At what price point? What about the tunneling at low power 5-7x? No one really likes to talk about that?!? No tunneling on the vortex or the dated Illumination knob hanging out on the side?

 

[Lowlight]

Tunneling are you kidding right ...

Who shoots these at 5x ? Especially when you can focus down so close at a higher power. Are you really buying a S&B 5-25x for the 5x ? If that is the case, get the 3x or ultra short and solve all the problems. I can honestly say I have never seen a reason to shoot on 5x, maybe 8x, maybe, but 5x not happening.

The tunneling argument is old and dated, not worth mentioning, it's so minor it's comical when people bring it up.

The illumination is dated, but again, who uses it that often to care. The Lefties can worry about it, but for everyone else, take the battery out and ignore it LOL

I have gone back to shooting a bunch of S&B scopes and they really are the gold standard in so many ways.

 

[steve123]

Tunneling are you kidding right ...

Who shoots these at 5x ? Especially when you can focus down so close at a higher power. Are you really buying a S&B 5-25x for the 5x ? If that is the case, get the 3x or ultra short and solve all the problems. I can honestly say I have never seen a reason to shoot on 5x, maybe 8x, maybe, but 5x not happening.

The tunneling argument is old and dated, not worth mentioning, it's so minor it's comical when people bring it up.

The illumination is dated, but again, who uses it that often to care. The Lefties can worry about it, but for everyone else, take the battery out and ignore it LOL

I have gone back to shooting a bunch of S&B scopes and they really are the gold standard in so many ways.

Well put!

No scope is perfect but S&B did a good job all those years ago on their 5-25. I cringe at the thought of selling mine, I know I'd regret it.

 

[teddyw19]

Well put!

No scope is perfect but S&B did a good job all those years ago on their 5-25. I cringe at the thought of selling mine, I know I'd regret it.

What is the street price for the sb? I know their map is just over 3 grand but is there any place to get a good deal on them?

 

[Mute]

What is the street price for the sb? I know their map is just over 3 grand but is there any place to get a good deal on them?

There's been a huge price drop recently in many of the S&B offerings. Mile High has a bunch of PMII 5-25 under $2400:

http://www.milehighshooting.com/schmidt-and-bender-677-911-972-94-67-5-25x56-pmii-lp-p4f-cm/

 

[FourT6and2]

Tunneling are you kidding right ...

Who shoots these at 5x ? Especially when you can focus down so close at a higher power. Are you really buying a S&B 5-25x for the 5x ? If that is the case, get the 3x or ultra short and solve all the problems. I can honestly say I have never seen a reason to shoot on 5x, maybe 8x, maybe, but 5x not happening.

The tunneling argument is old and dated, not worth mentioning, it's so minor it's comical when people bring it up.

The illumination is dated, but again, who uses it that often to care. The Lefties can worry about it, but for everyone else, take the battery out and ignore it LOL

I have gone back to shooting a bunch of S&B scopes and they really are the gold standard in so many ways.

While I see your point, Frank... it's funny how trends change. This time two years ago everyone was all, "Who shoots at max power? Too much mirage. Resolution suffers. I never go above 12-15x!!!" Not really related to the tunneling. I just think it's funny now everyone chases higher and higher magnification when before it was "stupid."

 

[Vargmat]

IanHusaberg: Yes, I went from a Razor G2 to a Schmidt PM2. And yes, the 5-25x56 tunnels like crazy when you go below 7,3x or somewhere around there. But really, who cares? I typically use my scopes at between 16-20x power, it seems to be a good compromise for me. YMMV

And as far as price goes. I payed 250$ more for the PM2 than I did pay for the Razor Gen2 about a year ago.

 

[IanHusaberg]

Tunneling are you kidding right ...

Who shoots these at 5x ? Especially when you can focus down so close at a higher power. Are you really buying a S&B 5-25x for the 5x ? If that is the case, get the 3x or ultra short and solve all the problems. I can honestly say I have never seen a reason to shoot on 5x, maybe 8x, maybe, but 5x not happening.

The tunneling argument is old and dated, not worth mentioning, it's so minor it's comical when people bring it up.

The illumination is dated, but again, who uses it that often to care. The Lefties can worry about it, but for everyone else, take the battery out and ignore it LOL

I have gone back to shooting a bunch of S&B scopes and they really are the gold standard in so many ways.

Who am I to argue with the HMFIC here!!!! I think, if you can buy the S&B for the same price as a Vortex, you'd be a fool for buying the Vortex. We all know S&B is the Gold standard(Glass), thats why there are so many comparison threads on here. Lowlight you are right on all accounts. I'm just splitting hairs here. I posted yesterday why I purchased the Vortex. 1st-The price, 2nd-the reticle(ERB-2C), 3rd-clean design of the parallax/Illumination/MOA reticle.

Personally, when I pay for a scope, I want every bit of what I'm paying for through out the Magnification range. This has held me back from buying more value options like Nightforce w/ the tunneling and poor choice of clean designed MOA Christmas tree reticles.

Is tunneling a design flaw? How has Vortex solved it so effectively? Why can't Nightforce/ S&B?

 

[Rob01]

I never mentioned the tunneling because it is a non issue. I never had any problems with the 5-7x range when I was running my S&Bs. Was very rarely there.

The S&B price drop this year makes me wonder why? What has changed from the scope people were paying $3500 for the past few years and now it is $2400? I am sure it is not the quality but you have to wonder if they were feeling the effects of the newer other optics doing what only they did for for years and offering other features but for less money and people going away from buying S&Bs. S&B obviously still makes a great scope but I listed my reasons for not using them anymore above. Wondering if others feeling the same are also moving away.

 

[wapiti16b]

I'd guess the price drop has to do with the market and equal if not better products available to the shooting public and the growing popularity of the sport !
JMHO !

 

[Lowlight]

The market ...

The scope has really not changed in all the time it has been out. There are some turret differences due to military contracts like the locking turrets and because of those early runs of multiple contracts, you had a lot of submissions taking place. That allowed them to raise the price, submissions are expensive which is why all that stuff is expensive.

Remember it's not just S&B in North America but you deal with Germany too and things go back and forth all the time because of changes in the Euro vs USD

They were smart to level the prices off and reduce the clutter like they did.

You can certainly get other scopes from S&B that do not tunnel, but honestly the 1.5x where it does tunnel is as noted, silly. It's the original design in the space, everyone had time to evaluate the scope and adjust accordingly which is why you don't see it in the 3-20x versions

Everyone else used the 5-25x PM2 as the Goal, so it becomes easier to surpass. But at less than $3000 it's still an S&B with the best possible features and options one could ask for. They tend to keep their value too.

 

[Darkside-Six]

I own both and I like both pretty equally. I have a G2 4.5-27 with the EBR2C and an S&B with the MSR. I've always said, and it's my personal preference that if out side by side without price being a concern that I would take the S&B all day. For those who are looking for purely just glass clarity then it is better than the Vortex. That being said, for the last few years the Vortex has been close to $1000-1200 cheaper which os one of the biggest reasons it was the "go to" scope. The turrets are great, the company is great, and the customer service is great so it makes sense to go with the razor. However now that S&B has started dropping their price point then that obviously changes things again. Honestly, with them being so close in price it's more or less pick your poison because you can't go wrong with either. As far as the warranties on the S&B go, they still honor them. I know several people who have had to send one on and there was no questions asked. Nobody ever cared about tunneling because it didn't fucking matter, and just because people don't always shoot at max power it's still nice to have.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Lowlight]

The US Warranty was changed recently and made clear

20 Year Transferable !

There is no issue with warranty in the US

 

[Rob01]

Definitely the market that drove them to it. It was smart that they dropped their price as they were pricing themselves out of the civilian market. Features and options are a personal preference though.

 

[ballisticdaddy]

In reading this thread why do you think the SB has come down so much in price and what did they sacrifice to hit that price point? With most manufactured items it's difficult to drop your price by 25% without something else being affected.....like quality!

 

[Duffman1975]

Could the price drop also have to do with the strength of the dollar?

 

[Lowlight]

In reading this thread why do you think the SB has come down so much in price and what did they sacrifice to hit that price point? With most manufactured items it's difficult to drop your price by 25% without something else being affected.....like quality!

As has been noted,

I have an original 5-25x, in fact I have one of the first 5 that hit US shores a long time ago, I paid $2350 for the scope. The price changed from the retail it was, to the retail we saw because of the military demand for the optic. There were very few changes that took place, beyond adding the Horus Reticle options and locking turrets. But since most of the military contracts required trials you see a lot of products increase in price. The trials to determine which product the military chooses in a long one, it requires a lot of assurances, a lot of hand holding, a lot of back and forth traveling to various bases to test and evaluate. nobody ever figures this in to the cost. (Why does a PSR rifle cost $18k vs something like the AXMC which is $7k ) In fact you need to hire people just to handle the military.

They did not sacrifice any quality dropping the price, they just leveled it back off too reality. Where the commercial market current sits.

I have just about the entire line of S&B scopes here, and there is no change in quality.

Yes, they reduced the SKUs, streamlined the product offerings so you did not have a laundry list of options, and reduced the stock on items that are not ordered vs items that are in demand.

The military contracts really skew the pricing and with S&B those contracts were worldwide, so you have to balance the cost across the board. That means adjusting for multiple world markets and then anticipating fluctuations in the Euro, USD, etc... so they tend to go high because the military will be fine with it. S&B was fully invested in the military side of things which tends to hurt the commercial markets. In this case they corrected the ship accordingly

 

[lash]

The S&B 5-25 that I have is no different than the one my friend has and he paid $1000 more than I did three years ago.

Three things that I can think of that could make a price drop possible are:

- sunk costs of initial tooling and development are paid for and current manufacturing costs of an unchanged design are lower

- higher volume associated with a lower price uses the advantage of purchasing power and manufacturing efficiency

​​​​​​ - the stronger dollar

Also, don't miss that the newer models are not cheap. Again, having to recoup development and initial tooling costs.

edit: crap! Can hardly beat or argue with Frank's answer. I take too long to post on my phone.

 

[Lowlight]

And just to back up a point,

S&B just won a contract along with H&K for the CSASS Rifle (M110A1)


Along with the H&K and S&B, you have GDI winning the Mount for the scope, this was a long, draw out solicitation.

 

[athanasios23]

How about the new turrets and reticle? Looks like some nice improvements. I would assume that a company the size of S&B that deals in world wide markets knows a thing or two about tracking sales data. It seems that in the precision shooting world, that when new products come out we go ape shit. Everyone dumps there old gear and go after the newest gear. Would be smart on S&B's part to have there vendors dump older product to prepare for new inventory. I think the pricing of there new offerings will reveal why there was a sudden price drop.

http://www.elr-resources.com/S&B 2017 new.pdf

I'm on the band wagon and bought two S&B scopes recently do to price drops. Couldn't pass them up.

To the OP: If you are in the market call the sniperhide vendors. They will quote you best prices over the phone.

 

[Creedmoor Girl]

I have owned 3 S&B 5-25 scopes and used them in matches since 2006 and kept them on hand even when I shot for other companies because I could count on them but now I own 3 Razor II scopes and like everything better about them than the S&Bs and sold off the S&Bs. The glass is a push but the Razor II has better knobs that are locking, audible and tactile clicks and nice spacing on the 10 mil per turn and also offers the clickless zeroing for a perfect zero. No more having to be a little off. Better reticles in the Razor with the 2C working great for long range with it's useful but not cluttered Christmas tree in the lower quadrants, small open center and line thickness of .03 mils so doesn't cover a lot of the target and the illumination illuminates the whole reticle. Also the illumination location is better as it's right off the parallax and not up on the tube where left hand shooters sometimes have issues with bolt contact. Both have plenty of elevation but the Razor II has about an extra 18 MOA of elevation.

The only thing that I like better about the S&B is the 10 meter parallax but not enough to put it over the Razor II which adjusts down to 32 yards.

The Razor does weigh about 10 ounces more than the S&B but once mounted the weight isn't felt on the rifle.

The Razor obviously has a better warranty with the Vortex VIP warranty, which not only covers and mechanical scope issues, which the Razors have had very few, but also accidental damage like dropping the scope, accidentally running it over with a truck or having it caught in a house fire. That is nice peace of mind.

Great info!

I own a Swarovski X5 5-25x56 PL 1/8 MOAX and a Steiner M5Xi 5-25x56. I like them a lot, but have been thinking about trying either a Schmidt&Bender or Razor II.

 

[Mormegil87]

I picked up a cert off the table at the SDSC for a discount on a S&B. I ended up getting one with an H59 reticle and have been happy with my purchase ever since.

 

[FlashAndPoof]

I'd 100% go with the scope that has the reticle I preferred. I own both of these scopes actually and I personally prefer the S&B. The Vortex is noticeably heavier and it did break on me but Vortex immediately took care of it with VIP level service and speed to the point that I don't really take any points off for it. From what I recall, while I was adjusting the zero, I either backed out and or tightened the screws too much and my Barrett did the rest.

 

[diverdon]

Those who love the S&B but for the below 7X tunneling should consider the 3-27 which does not tunnel, the field of view is awsome at 3x, if you ever need to find a running whitetail with your precision rifle this migh be the scope for you.

PS. The MTC feel is nicer too....

 

[scudzuki]

I bought an S&B PMII from MHSA, couldn't resist at the current prices.
The P4F wasn't a bad reticle.
If you can stand CW turrets (I can't), they're only $2300. Score.

 

[ironsight1000yard]

What about gen 2 xr rectile? No one like it?

 

[scudzuki]

Got my new PMII DT P4F CM scope today.
The elevation turret detents are much improved from the one I had years back. Firm and zero mush.
I forgot how right some of the controls are, too... the side focus (parallax) uses almost an entire turn instead of being all bunched together. The windage turret is superb. Still hate the look of the illumination control wart, though
There's a reason it's the standard by which others are judged.

Until I finish my next build (24" 6 Dasher, Bighorn TL3, K&P barrel, MPA lite chassis) I'm going to mount it on my .22. 10 meter close focus, right?

 

[steve123]

Got my new PMII DT P4F CM scope today.
The elevation turret detents are much improved from the one I had years back. Firm and zero mush.
I forgot how right some of the controls are, too... the side focus (parallax) uses almost an entire turn instead of being all bunched together. The windage turret is superb. Still hate the look of the illumination control wart, though
There's a reason it's the standard by which others are judged.

Until I finish my next build (24" 6 Dasher, Bighorn TL3, K&P barrel, MPA lite chassis) I'm going to mount it on my .22. 10 meter close focus, right?

Gotta try the old cold bore 10M shot on a pencil dot, right? Might as well do 15 and 20 too. I like your build specs! S&B will be a good fit.

That was a super deal for such a great scope.

 

[Desert_Racer]

I too am deliberating over the same two scopes. With the military discount from Vortex direct, the Razor HD G2 is all the more enticing. I also like the ERB2C reticle better than the S&B offerings in the same price range. I have been looking through the S&B offerings from MHSA and get lost in the acronyms. I dug around the manufacturer's site but couldn't figure out what "LP" or "CM" meant.

More or less, I'm having a hard time understanding if these scopes all come standard with some sort of zero stop. The locking turrets seems to be an option. If anyone can help to educate me, that would be much appreciated. The one I'm eyeballing is advertised as follows: [h=1]SCHMIDT AND BENDER 677-911-972-B8-B4: 5-25X56 PMII LP MTC P4F CM CW[/h]

 

[Covertnoob5]

I too am deliberating over the same two scopes. The one I'm eyeballing is advertised as follows: [h=1]SCHMIDT AND BENDER 677-911-972-B8-B4: 5-25X56 PMII LP MTC P4F CM CW[/h]

That's gonna equate to:
S&B 5-25
LP = Illuminated reticle
MTC = more tactile click
P4F = reticle
CM = mil turrets
CW = clockwise rotating turrets

As far as I know all S&B tactical scopes come with a zero stop.


Covert is as Covert does.

Plenty of good feedback on the scout site.

 

[athanasios23]

I too am deliberating over the same two scopes. With the military discount from Vortex direct, the Razor HD G2 is all the more enticing. I also like the ERB2C reticle better than the S&B offerings in the same price range. I have been looking through the S&B offerings from MHSA and get lost in the acronyms. I dug around the manufacturer's site but couldn't figure out what "LP" or "CM" meant.

More or less, I'm having a hard time understanding if these scopes all come standard with some sort of zero stop. The locking turrets seems to be an option. If anyone can help to educate me, that would be much appreciated. The one I'm eyeballing is advertised as follows: [h=1]SCHMIDT AND BENDER 677-911-972-B8-B4: 5-25X56 PMII LP MTC P4F CM CW[/h]

I just recently had to learn what all the abbreviations meant. I couldn't believe the prices hat the scopes were at. I paid little extra for CCW turrets. I have a Zeiss hunting scope and am not a huge fan of clockwise turrets. Like to just have all my turrets spinning in the same (right) direction.

 

[Desert_Racer]

I just recently had to learn what all the abbreviations meant. I couldn't believe the prices hat the scopes were at. I paid little extra for CCW turrets. I have a Zeiss hunting scope and am not a huge fan of clockwise turrets. Like to just have all my turrets spinning in the same (right) direction.

Which reticle did you go with?

 

[athanasios23]

Which reticle did you go with?

P4LF...I called mile high and they had a deal on that reticle. As reticle's changed so did the prices. I bought one with the Double turn turrets. Was super impressed I ordered another one with the same reticle but with MTC turrets. On first impression I don't really like the MTC turrets but locking feature is pretty cool. I keep spinning past a few clicks every time I hit the solid number. I hope I'll get used to it. I doubt I will ever hunt with my precision rifles so its not a huge deal. All my shooting is recreational so I don't think it will ever hinder me. I think the new turrets coming out solve the issue though. I believe you can have DT turrets that lock.

The S&B is the nicest scope I have owned. Have had Steiner (which I really like), NF, USO to compare too.

 

[lash]

I too am deliberating over the same two scopes. With the military discount from Vortex direct, the Razor HD G2 is all the more enticing. I also like the ERB2C reticle better than the S&B offerings in the same price range. I have been looking through the S&B offerings from MHSA and get lost in the acronyms. I dug around the manufacturer's site but couldn't figure out what "LP" or "CM" meant.

More or less, I'm having a hard time understanding if these scopes all come standard with some sort of zero stop. The locking turrets seems to be an option. If anyone can help to educate me, that would be much appreciated. The one I'm eyeballing is advertised as follows: [h=1]SCHMIDT AND BENDER 677-911-972-B8-B4: 5-25X56 PMII LP MTC P4F CM CW[/h]

What is your expected use? The Vortex is a great scope and will do more than most people need without issue. In my case, the S&B is for ELR and provides an edge, however slight, that I like.

 

[Desert_Racer]

What is your expected use? The Vortex is a great scope and will do more than most people need without issue. In my case, the S&B is for ELR and provides an edge, however slight, that I like.

It will be resting on a 28 Nosler I am building for ELR purposes. I am leaning more towards the Vortex as I am happy with the lower power version I own and it has all the features I want at a better price, but I do want to see what all the fuss is about with an S&B.

 

[lash]

I am no aficionado or expert, so maybe someone more knowledgeable can assist better. I just know that here in Florida, when shooting in afternoon heat, the S&B I picked up has an advantage seeing through mirage over the Vortex G2 my friend runs. It's an opinion that he and I share but with no scientific facts to back it up.

 

[Rob01]

What is your expected use? The Vortex is a great scope and will do more than most people need without issue. In my case, the S&B is for ELR and provides an edge, however slight, that I like.

What edge for ELR?

 

[lash]

What edge for ELR?

Rob, see my post right above yours. I explain there why I have that perception. I make no claim other than my personal perception. It may well be due to other factors. I just know what I see.

 

[Rob01]

Rob, see my post right above yours. I explain there why I have that perception. I make no claim other than my personal perception. It may well be due to other factors. I just know what I see.

Got it. Didn't know if it was something else. Thanks.

 

[CoyoteKilo]

My biggest issue with the SB is that in order for me to get locking turrets and a good christmas tree reticle im looking at about $800 more than what I can pick up a new Vortex Razor G2 for...If I had a lot of money to burn, I'd probably try out a SB. Unfortunately, the Razor is basically the top end of what I should be paying for rifle optics so I make due with my $2500 scope haha. Honestly though, I wouldnt really change anything other than make the Vortex Black...not a fan of the color of the Razor line.

 

[steve123]

As far as versatility the S&B PM2 5-25x56/H59 MTC-LT is one of the most versatile scopes on the market. 10M close focus parallax for airguns and 22's, 28 mils of travel with another 25 mils in the reticle for ELR, locking turrets, and still some of the prettiest glass around.

I try to talk myself into selling one of my S&B's to buy two more Athlon Cronus BTR's but it hasn't happened yet.