Maggie’s Self Guided Grand Canyon tour?

#2
Well, the elevator just malfunctioned with a bunch of people in it, soooo hike down in. There is lodging up top and it's pretty fancy, but peak season I am sure it's booked. Dunno what's at the bottom other than a river, but some day I'll find out.
 
#5
n2ishun said:
Be like me.
Go to the north side, find people milling in crowd.
Note large 14 point muley buck in center of crowd.
Note people trying to pet buck and stand very close to it for picture opportunity.
Wait for the bleeding to start.
Smile knowingly once it does.
Profit.
Click to expand...
Plenty of big elk there too!
 
#6
Jgunner said:
Plenty of big elk there too!
Click to expand...
Not kidding a bit.
I saw a crowd at one end of the northern parking lot all gathered around a very large and old muley buck.
The buck was so old it was kinda decrepit.
The people were honestly trying to pet it......it didn't go so well.
If that buck was younger and a bit more spry it could have gotten way more ugly.
Several people got carted off in ambulances, didn't count them, didn't care for stupid people all that much.
The only sorrow I felt was not having a camera.
 
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#7
RE: OP.

Ive been looking into that myself. I did the north rim to the river and back about 50 years ago and have been wanting to do rim to rim. The north trail is 7 miles and over a mile in elevation change. The south rim a bit shorter.

From what Ive been learning its a 4 month wait to get a pass to go below the rim. Lodging needs to be reserved months in advance. There are Facebook sites about the Canyon and whats going on.
 
#9
OP what kind of physical condition are you in? GCNP is no joke to hike in/out to the river, Its 9,000 vertical ∆s from S rim.

Do not do it without proper planning including understanding the time of year, and your ability to overnight along your chosen route, and have proper understanding of food/water and your party health/conditions.

Bright angel is a better descent route, but is longer. South Kaibab is quite steep for a modern trail with lots of exposure. But its fast if you are fit and running it the right time of day/year.

Noth rim is more challenging logistics, and can get real wild if you take anything other than the main trail.

That being said, what makes GCNP so cool is its all pre-modern and the trails are accessing (amazing) things that are worth the hassle.

Do research and keep in mind this is the desert, and also the high-desert, and the colorado plateau is a brutal and harsh environment. Its beautiful, but not benign in any way.
 
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#12
We lived in AZ and whiled the canyon dozens of times.
Ma Smith above is spot on. In addition to that:
*You can’t take enough water with you*. It’s work and dry and you’ll want to consume twice what you think you need. Hiking to Cottonwood and the point from the south rim is easy on the way down but is all uphill coming back. The views are spectacular, particular at sunrise.
The hike from multiple trails (from south rim) to Phantom Ranch is unique and different views going up vs down. Plan ahead you need reservations/ a permit for camping or excursions deeper into the canyon.
Do not over estimate your hiking ability: If you‘re a day hiker you have to be out by sundown (safety and regulations) so plan accordingly. Finally, also consider hiking the far south end, Havasupai. The water is ultra blue-green clear and a different experience than the south rim.
 
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#13
IMO a river trip is THE way to see the canyon. From the top its just a big hole in the ground. Its a whole other world seeing it from the bottom, doing the side hikes, etc. The side hikes are the most incredible thing about the canyon. A good way to do it if you're shorter on time and dont want to do the whole thing is to do the second "half" which is closer to 2/3. You can hike in the bright angel and get on the rafts there. That gets you the best whitewater and the best side hikes. Typically then people fly out in helicopters at whitmore. Not self guided and not cheap, but the best way to see the canyon if you arent a rafter or know rafters. I would recommend OARS or AZRA for a row trip but if you're really pressed for time you could do a motor trip.

Just the opinion of a river guy who has done the canyon 8 times DIY and seen it from the top a couple times, so I guess Im a bit bias. The way to DIY is to win a private permit in the lottery and then I'll plan your trip and take you down, LOL.
 
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#14
TXAZ said:
We lived in AZ and whiled the canyon dozens of times.
Ma Smith above is spot on. In addition to that:
*You can’t take enough water with you*. It’s work and dry and you’ll want to consume twice what you think you need. Hiking to Cottonwood and the point from the south rim is easy on the way down but is all uphill coming back. The views are spectacular, particular at sunrise.
The hike from multiple trails (from south rim) to Phantom Ranch is unique and different views going up vs down. Plan ahead you need reservations/ a permit for camping or excursions deeper into the canyon.
Do not over estimate your hiking ability: If you‘re a day hiker you have to be out by sundown (safety and regulations) so plan accordingly. Finally, also consider hiking the far south end, Havasupai. The water is ultra blue-green clear and a different experience than the south rim.
Click to expand...
It used to be that beautiful, clear, blue green at Phantom Ranch when I did it in 72. Pictures I see now look muddy but maybe thats the seasonal change. I did it in early summer.
 
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#15
zeroz said:
The way to DIY is to win a private permit in the lottery and then I'll plan your trip and take you down, LOL.
Click to expand...
^^^^^ This. They are not often easy to get. Google strategies on getting permits.
One (in 2011) is to show up at the ranger station when they hand them out and hope for someone to not show up, which is common.
good luck and enjoy!
 
#16
Water color at phantom ranch is dependent on upstream rain. Could be greenish clear or mud water. Havasu is berry blue koolaid water due to the calcium carbonate, the main river never looks like that. Im not sure if the Havasupai have started issuing permits to hike their land again or not. They hadn't as of April 22.

Couple of us were sitting at the mouth of Havasu getting shit faced while the rest of our party hiked Havasu. A group of 20 somethings hiked down from the top. They came over to chat and we started feeding them booze and other party favors. Couple of them were so fucked up when it was time for them to start their hike out they were stumbling just to get out of the cove. I cant imagine they had a good time making that climb out of there, but they sure had a good time at the river. We were laughing our asses off. Beware the rafters at the bottom, especially if you have to hike back out the same day or next morning.
 
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#17
Maggot said:
It used to be that beautiful, clear, blue green at Phantom Ranch when I did it in 72. Pictures I see now look muddy but maybe thats the seasonal change. I did it in early summer.
Click to expand...
The water is very clear at Havasupi as it’s a different source than Glen Canyon dam. Considering the serious drop in lake Powell, it might be lower and “thicker water” (higher silt content).
 
#18
TXAZ said:
^^^^^ This. They are not often easy to get. Google strategies on getting permits.
One (in 2011) is to show up at the ranger station when they hand them out and hope for someone to not show up, which is common.
good luck and enjoy!
Click to expand...
River permits are by lottery. Only way to get a call in is less than a week out which is a short time to rally a private crew and do all the logistical planning for a 14-25 day trip.
 
#20
North rim FTW: fewer people and if you're a hiker or mtn biker, there's a trail along the rim of the canyon

As pointed out above, Havasupai is beautiful. The ex- and I hiked in and out to the 'town' of Havasupai but there's donkeys making trips down if you'd rather.

I didn't hike down to the bottom, but I did live in Flag for a bit. Flag and the canyon are WAY up there in altitude. 7000' IIRC Its also very dry, Drink less alcohol and more water than you'd normally drink

M
 
#21
Great thread - watching also with interest. Any comments on Grand Canyon visit for a married couple 60+ who are not into hiking, rafting, etc.? Like the train referenced earlier.
 
#23
You could book a mule trip. They are booked a couple years out or you may be able to get on a short notice cancellation list if they still have one. You ride a mule down, stay at phantom ranch and then ride the mules out the next day.

If you just want more of the view from afar experience you could do a helo tour or go to the skywalk. The heli trip to Whitmore would be cool. You get to fly over Lava Falls which is the biggest rapid down there. Pretty sweet to see the lava flow from above. Most of the heli trips (out of Vegas,etc), Whitmore excepting, are in the lower canyon where there is lake influence (silt banks) and the sky walk isn't actually over the Grand Canyon, which is funny as hell. Its actually over a side canyon that feeds into the grand.
 
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#25
Lightning8 said:
Great thread - watching also with interest. Any comments on Grand Canyon visit for a married couple 60+ who are not into hiking, rafting, etc.? Like the train referenced earlier.
Click to expand...
I prefer visiting the south rim off-season to avoid the crowds, and I absolutely love the views of red rock desert in the winter. Roads and view areas that are bus access only in-season are able to be driven in personal vehicles, hotel prices are way down and folks are generally more pleasant. Wildlife are more active, spotted a good few sheep along with plenty of deer and elk, very easy to break out the spotter and tripod at view areas and just glass around without a bunch of people getting in the way, right along with setting up the camera on the tripod and getting good shots of the wife and I rather than quick selfies from a phone camera or asking strangers to handle your $2k camera to take a poorly composed and out of focus picture of you. Yes, it will be cold and windy with snow chances too, coming from Wyoming the weather is pretty nice for us though. The train runs year round, a great way to take in the Village and drive the rest of the park another day.

Tusayan off the South Rim entrance is a great little place for nearby off park lodging, food and supplies. Williams is a decent drive away with freeway access for everything else. North Rim, you are in the middle of nowhere and it's awesome for that, but you are smack dab in the MIDDLE OF NOWHERE so plan accordingly.

Hiking in the winter is treacherous on the south rim, as many spots of the trails see zero sun for months and will have serious snow and ice in areas. Never tried it, but sounds like a fun adventure in my younger years. You can hike south rim to north, sure would be an experience. I'd have full on crampons though, that's for certain.

North rim, only open in fair weather seasons. Spring and fall are always best for avoiding the major crowds of summer vacationing families, and also avoiding the blistering heat.

Heed well the advice above about water, especially if you don't live and do a lot of outdoor activities in the desert or are not seriously acclimated to the brutal dryness and heat or cold. Plan for a minimum of two gallons per person/per day along with supplements to replace lost salts and other vital nutrients, regardless of season and temperatures, and know all water points available.
 
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#26
I went in July, 2006. It was part of my "Get your Kicks on Rt.66" driving tour of Az. I literally landed at PHX, rented a Dodge Durango SUV, and went all round Az driving for almost 2 weeks. I literally got all the way to Kingman, Az and then drove back to the Grand Canyon on the old Rt. 66. Four days of those two weeks were spent inside the park. I had made reservations at the El Tovar, inside the park.

It was the greatest mistake of my traveling career.

Lesson #1: Do NOT travel alone. Go with (at minimum) 1 additional person if not a family/group. You will find that the "hospitality" industry inside the park is much different if you go alone (like I did) vs. with a S/O or a family/group. If you travel alone, you are relegated to the crappiest of the accommodations, both in re: room selection and restaurant table selections. The hospitality managers inside the park are very tourist savvy and will reserve their best accommodations for their highest paying customers (i.e. couples or groups). Go alone, and you are relegated to the small table for 2 behind the serving island, even when the place is totally empty.

Lesson #2: Consider staying outside the park and just traveling in each day you are there. Yes, it may result in long lines to get in and entry fees, each day, but you will be a whole lot happier with the accommodations outside the park. But, your choice.

Lesson #3: Consider going during the summer months of June/July instead of any other time. The weather is clearer, there's no snow to cause a hazard and you can see much more. The downside to that is that those two months are the most crowded as all get out in re: tourists. And I mean everyone from all over the world. Different languages, etc. If you're OK with that, then great. It wasn't a huge deal for me, but it was quite crowded. If you are walking through (for example), the upper trail along the South rim (where the park accommodations are), I wouldn't walk/stand too close to the rim, as (at least when I went) there is very little if any guardrail protection. Someone could litterally push you off into the canyon itself. Be very careful. In the Autum and Winter, the crowds are much smaller, but the danger of slipping/falling due to the snow/ice is much greater.

Lesson #4: The elevation is about 7000+ feet. If that's an issue for you, healthwise, take that also into consideration.

All in all, it's one of those "Been There/Done that" sort of things. When you first see it, it will not disappoint, But, after a day or so, it will be like, "ehhhh."
 
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#27
If you have the vehicle to do it, I would go to the North Rim and camp out at Point Sublime. It's about a 14 mile drive. You would have to check in with the ranger station first though. But once you get there, you will be the only people there.

1670786449889.jpeg
 
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#28
BridgerMT said:
That's nothing you should see the shit these Fucktards do in Yellowstone park..
Bison attacks are much more fun to watch 😂😂😂
or maybe bathing in thermal hot springs I cant make this shit up
Click to expand...
Have seen Bison attacks (my favorite ;)). Who in their right mind decides he's going to go up and spank a Buffalo ? :unsure::ROFLMAO:

Have seen people pushing their three and four year old kids up to "pet a mountain goat" (first runner up......:eek:).

Have only heard of people stewing in thermal baths. Hope I never see it in person.
 
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#29
Lightning8 said:
Great thread - watching also with interest. Any comments on Grand Canyon visit for a married couple 60+ who are not into hiking, rafting, etc.? Like the train referenced earlier.
Click to expand...
One of the main things to realize about the train is you don't see the Grand Canyon while riding on it. A good portion of the time the tracks are adjacent/relatively near the highway (64) that goes from Williams to the train station at GCNP. The scenery is predominantly pretty flat with a bunch of juniper trees (and windmills). If you're doing it to ride the train that's great, but don't expect canyon views.
 
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#30
I think the Grand Canyon is a must do if your wife has never seen it. Regardless of when, how long, or where in particular you go; the most important thing is to go, IMHO.

South Rim hotels are all decent with price increasing for being near the rim, view of the rim and furnishings. We’ve stayed in all of them over the years and they’re all at least adequate. In recent years we tend to stay at Yavapai because the rooms are nice enough, it’s in the park (sometimes long lines form at the entrances that can take 30-60 minutes), and it’s near a restaurant & grocery store. North Rim lodge & campgrounds are closed from the end of October until May (don’t remember exact dates). As stated earlier the North Rim is less crowded, but that’s because it’s out in the middle of nowhere (even for northern Arizona). There aren’t many other commercial businesses anywhere near the North Rim. It’s about a 4-hour drive from the South rim to the North rim.

I think the best weather is spring or fall. I’ve also been there in the summer and winter. In addition to possible high temps in the summer, I found the crowds to be unbearably large. The couple of times I’ve been in the winter have been cold (highs in the 20’s) with high winds (>30mph). That being said, you could also get hot or cold temps in the spring & fall too.

Our latest trip was last month and we had great weather for the first 9 days of our backpacking trip (temps 70’s & 80’s mostly sunny) and we hiked out in cold rain/sleet/graupel turning into heavy wet snow. Five hours later we had sun and clear skies although temps got down to 9 degrees that night. Bottom line: regardless of the time of the year be prepared for hot/cold & precip (especially if you’re going down into the canyon).

Feel free to send me a PM if you want me to bore you to death with more info. :)
 
#31
Tempest 455 said:
Take the Grand Canyon train ride into the park from Williams AZ. Been to Canyon many times and best trip I've had there!
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I second above.
Arrive and stay in Williams AZ at the Railway Hotel, right beside Rt 66 and the railway. Nice rt 66 town and the hotel is festive during this time of the year. Next morning, breakfast at hotel then board the scenic train ride to Grand Canyon. I suggest staying at the Maswik lodge at the park, then you get to see sunset and sunrise, and spend leisure time at the canyon at your on pace. Take the train back to Williams when you are ready.

Awesome luxury experience.
 
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#32
X10 on the rafting, but if you don't have that kind of time the Havasupai reservation is the way to go for a day hike or better yet a hike down, a couple of days at the Nat Forest camp ground, and then a day to hike back. It's gorgeous! All the lime in the water creates the terraces.

I wish I had a picture of it, but below where the last trail Havasu Creek ends there is some incredible fishing. You have to do some pretty nasty wading in a lot of current right where the trail ends, but it opens up beyond that narrow canyon. I'll bet it doesn't get fished but every few years. There is a huge rainbow in every eddy and behind every rock, and there are monster Browns under every sweeper and strainer. I haven't been in a generation, but it is an incredibly fond memory.
1670856027915.png

1670856045747.png
 
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#34
The trout fishing isn't that good anymore. The park decided that trout are bad because they eat the native chub fingerlings. They shocked the living shit out of the trout. Its been several years since they shocked so the numbers are increasing again but nothing like they were in the early 2000's. Also, with the water temp on the rise because of the low lake it may not be great trout habitat in the future, especially down that far. Thats govt for you. Make a cold clear river and introduce trout. Then decide you want to get rid of the trout, but only below Lees ferry and save the fish that thrive in a warm muddy river, though its still clear and cold.
 
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#35
We did the train ride from Williams, it was awesome. Pay extra get the best seating, it is worth it. If you do the south rim, the buses are perfect for getting around and you never wait more than 15 minutes.

The dining is extremely questionable, you will die from the shits at most of the contract places operated within the park. We ate at one and lost 14 pounds between us. There is a grocery store, buy whatever you need and prepare it yourself. Enjoy your hike. We went in June and the place was mobbed, idiots chasing deer and elk down the streets like they are trying to get an autograph from Brad Pitt of some shit.

Apparently, no matter what language you write "Do Not Feed the Fucking Animals" in, assholes still try and feed animals. I bet an idiot a week falls off and dies. One did while we were there. The idiot Whil E. Coyote'd his ass right off the side jumping for his hat as it blew away. He almost got the hat before he died.
 
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