Have seen Berger 109s popping up over the past few days (of course they immediately sell out). Anyone have an inside scoop of when they do runs of these and how long? Anyone able to source them reliably?
Berger 109?
- Thread starter L0ngRnge
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lol, they aint magic. I'd have no problem using 105 VLD's against someone with 109's. This is a funny game, and anyone whose been around it for a couple decades or more will tell you there is always a "hot" bullet. Right now it is the 109, a few years ago it was the 105 Hybrid, before hybrids we shot VLD's.
Funny how they all shot about the same on target.
No info on when they do runs.
Funny how they all shot about the same on target.
No info on when they do runs.
Berger .243 / 6mm 105 Grain Very Low Drag Target Bullets (100 or 500 Bullets box)
Win the next competition with Berger .243 / 6mm 105 grain target very low drag bullets from Powder Valley. Berger VLD match bullets are designed for accuracy.
www.powdervalley.com
Berger posted on their facebook they were going to run 105s and 109s through the new year and that was middle of October. You should be able to score some soon.
The basic idea is once you are seeing them in a couple shops,that is your sign that they did a run. Keep your eyes peeled for more shops getting them over the course of several days or a week (edit: or a month LOL). Most online places won't let you backorder them anymore, but maybe local shops will IDK.
PSA: the Berger 108 bthp is very very good and is right there with the 109 in all aspects. It's a lot easier to find too, or it used to be. I haven't had to buy any for a while because when I stock up, I do get enough for a few barrels but the 108's have always been much easier to find and group every bit as good as the 109. The true BC difference isn't much at all either
Thanks. If nobody can get them reliably, this plan is clearly not sustainable and ill likely steer clear.
If there's a shortage I have no problem switching bullets as long as I can get enough of those to burn out the rest of the barrel and maybe one more.
Pretty entertaining seeing the 109 being the new 105 as far as popularity.......compared to when the 109 was first released and half the hide claimed they were terrible and defective. With several sending some back to Berger to check.
I’ve only used the Berger 108’s in my Dasher out to 1K. IMO the Dasher struggles at 1K against the 7mm’s, but it is one the most accurate, easy to tune bullets for the Dasher. In spite of that, it’s obviously my favorite.
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Will yall shut the hell up about the 108’s. They suck, dont shoot for damned, super inconsistent, come apart in flight.
Send these raggedy assed bullets my way and i will dispose of them properly
Send these raggedy assed bullets my way and i will dispose of them properly
There is some truth to it.
The 105s are slighty better from a BC consistency standpoint (proven over radar) which is why most of the AB guys run them. 109 indefinably has more variance between points than the 105s. I talked to Litz about it and he said the only thing that matters are the critical dimensions. I got different CBTO changing lots but the paper didnt care. As long as they were jumped .030-.150 they shot stupid small groups and held waterline out to about 1350.
I run nothing but 109s and love them.
I think being able to source either is great. If not, go for the 108 elite hunters. They are the bullet to buy when the 105/109s are sold out.
There is a big difference between the 108 BT and 108 Elite Hunters. Different Ogive and one is much more jump tolerant than the other. So when people say 108 bergers, be specific.
As I stated the 108 BT was and is my go to in my Dasher. Hearing that the 105 Hybrid gave a better BC and was easy to tune vs. the VLD design, I pondered a change for a while, but the 108 BT’s worked so I stayed with them.
Enter the 109 Hybrid, huh, if the 105’s were good, a heavier bullet of the same design would be better. I spoke to my gunsmith (high level F Class competitor), “nobody likes them, they don’t shoot”. End of story, never tried them, I was scared off. Since the 108 BT’s worked, I wasn’t shopping for something else and never gave them a chance. Having so many on the shelf, I passed, probably should have…
Enter the 109 Hybrid, huh, if the 105’s were good, a heavier bullet of the same design would be better. I spoke to my gunsmith (high level F Class competitor), “nobody likes them, they don’t shoot”. End of story, never tried them, I was scared off. Since the 108 BT’s worked, I wasn’t shopping for something else and never gave them a chance. Having so many on the shelf, I passed, probably should have…
You got some things backwards. 109's have less than 1% difference lot to lot on doppler. 105's don't beat that.
Everyone for the last 10 years, when talking about 108's for PRS is almost always talking about the BT. This was a "secret" for the longest time. While everyone was fighting over 105's, many were using the 108 and just not saying anything. I personally have about 16k of them specifically for when 109/105's aren't available.
Keep in mind as well, just because people keep using something they are comfortable with doesn't make it better.
They may have changed, but up until about two years ago, the Berger/Lapua/Brux F Class team was still using Berger 180's (the 7mm equivalent generation to the 105) and hadn't even tried the 7mm LRHT bullet because they knew how to make the 180's shoot and they were still winning.
And that's obviously a Berger sponsored team who could have all the LRHT they want to test. Not because better, but because the know the bullet.
They may have changed, but up until about two years ago, the Berger/Lapua/Brux F Class team was still using Berger 180's (the 7mm equivalent generation to the 105) and hadn't even tried the 7mm LRHT bullet because they knew how to make the 180's shoot and they were still winning.
And that's obviously a Berger sponsored team who could have all the LRHT they want to test. Not because better, but because the know the bullet.
Are you sure? I was talking to Chad and another AB guy and they told me the opposite.
I don't know about lot to lot, but overall BC consistency. Thats why alot of guys stick with the 105 despite the better BC with the 109s, and these are guys sponsored by capstone.
My understanding is a machine has been set up in the new facility that will be alternating between 105 & 109 hybrids for the foreseeable future or at least until all back orders have been filled. They should start being more and more common at your favorite vendors.
AB's numbers and this would by across many different lots tested for Berger as well as PDM's for shooters.
109 hybrid SD of BC = 1.4
105 hybrid SD or BC = 1.0
Interesting to note, the 108 ELD comes in with a SD of 0.7
AB's numbers and this would by across many different lots tested for Berger as well as PDM's for shooters.
109 hybrid SD of BC = 1.4
105 hybrid SD or BC = 1.0
Interesting to note, the 108 ELD comes in with a SD of 0.7
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Which is hilarious when you get to see them blow up. A guy at a class a few weeks ago was shooting a 6 creed factory hornady 108 elds out of a 7 twist barrel. Every other or third shot they would blow up. Switched to some other brand cant remember, but it stopped. The BC consistency is important but its not the only thing that matters. Its the whole package which is why the 105s and 109s are so damn popular. They are just so easy to get shooting really well and lot to lot variation doesn't really matter for what we do.
Between the 105s and 109s I have picked the 109s. Initial runs of the 109s had problems, but not as of recently from what I’m tracking. At this point I’ve used a little over 4K of 109s. They have seemed to be more consistent at longer range targets for me. If you were to point 105s yourself it would probably have a similar result.
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