Logistics of Organizing a Hunter Match

[Dot3]

I’m in the concept stage of planning a match and need some starting points on things that need to be addressed.

It will be a fund raiser as well as a primer for hunting season. So it’ll be simple stages tailored for the local population who isn’t into competing.

What are some logistics I need to take care of as far as legal, liability, etc? Is it even worth doing as a fund raiser once all the things are accounted for?

It would be on private land, not a dedicated range. I know things vary by state, but looking for a general idea.

 

[Rodney65]

Just a one off anecdote but I heard from a charity match organizer that raffling off donated items made a lot more money than the match itself. Whether that was because he had great sponsors or because he was terrible at managing match funds I'm not sure but that may be a more lucrative way to go.

Also regarding insurance some matches require attendees to have an active NRA/CCFR/etc. membership as they provide insurance and it also encourages people to join an organization like that while not adding to the cost of the match.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Curious, what are the going rates to insure a match

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Some things off the top of my head.

You want a LLC setup to insulate your assets should something happen. Also need to have waivers.

Lockton affinity offers insurance for these types of events. You need it

Porta potties, parking area, water / food , trash. Probally need a way to pull people who get stuck out.

Then you are going to need steel, posts , hangers. Placards for each stage to ID targets. A atv, utv or vehicle that can go fix broken targets fast in middle of match.

Then you need tablets, timers, chargers/batteries , props to shoot off.

It's a lot more work than you think and it's going to take a bunch of matches to break even on start up costs. That is before land owner fees.

And fuck the NRA.. you don't need those worthless twats.

 

[Rodney65]

And fuck the NRA.. you don't need those worthless twats.

I should maybe clarify that I was not trying to advocate for them just that I had seen that used as an alternative way of insuring shooters at a match.

 

[Dot3]

Some things off the top of my head.

You want a LLC setup to insulate your assets should something happen. Also need to have waivers.

Lockton affinity offers insurance for these types of events. You need it

Porta potties, parking area, water / food , trash. Probally need a way to pull people who get stuck out.

Then you are going to need steel, posts , hangers. Placards for each stage to ID targets. A atv, utv or vehicle that can go fix broken targets fast in middle of match.

Then you need tablets, timers, chargers/batteries , props to shoot off.

It's a lot more work than you think and it's going to take a bunch of matches to break even on start up costs. That is before land owner fees.

And fuck the NRA.. you don't need those worthless twats.

Thanks. Especially for the call out on starting an LLC and name of insurance company.

It is looking more and more like this will be a fund loser not raiser. But I’ll still follow up on all those suggestions and run the numbers.

Another issue I’ll run into, once all the logistics are worked out, is getting enough interested folks. This is a very rural area with a lot of hunters, but nobody competes. My idea to try to cater to them would be to have only a handful of stages (go to Walmart for a box of ammo and shoot the whole match with it), blind stages but known distances for those without rangefinders 400 yds max, 2-3 targets/stage for all the ADL 270s, maybe a bonus target or two, shooting from realistic hunting positions.

I’ve got to get through the financial/legal challenges first though.

 

[Rodney65]

Thanks. Especially for the call out on starting an LLC and name of insurance company.

It is looking more and more like this will be a fund loser not raiser. But I’ll still follow up on all those suggestions and run the numbers.

Another issue I’ll run into, once all the logistics are worked out, is getting enough interested folks. This is a very rural area with a lot of hunters, but nobody competes. My idea to try to cater to them would be to have only a handful of stages (go to Walmart for a box of ammo and shoot the whole match with it), blind stages but known distances for those without rangefinders 400 yds max, 2-3 targets/stage for all the ADL 270s, maybe a bonus target or two, shooting from realistic hunting positions.

I’ve got to get through the financial/legal challenges first though.

I am not the most experienced person but I do know if people aren't that interested in competing people will probably also not be that experienced at ROing. The ROs not see impacts or have trouble consistently enforcing the stage rules and course of fire.

This combined with inexperienced competitors probably means you need to make the stages quite simple and consistent stage to stage not some KIMs game. You may want to just have a draw for any high value prizes to tone down the competitiveness.

If some top level pro PRS/NRL types do show up you want them to have fun but you don't want to turn off people who have never tried competing because they never got the chance to win anything or didn't realize there were loopholes in the rules.

Just some things I have noticed at matches, especially one off type events.

 

[Dot3]

I am not the most experienced person but I do know if people aren't that interested in competing people will probably also not be that experienced at ROing. The ROs not see impacts or have trouble consistently enforcing the stage rules and course of fire.

This combined with inexperienced competitors probably means you need to make the stages quite simple and consistent stage to stage not some KIMs game. You may want to just have a draw for any high value prizes to tone down the competitiveness.

If some top level pro PRS/NRL types do show up you want them to have fun but you don't want to turn off people who have never tried competing because they never got the chance to win anything or didn't realize there were loopholes in the rules.

Just some things I have noticed at matches, especially one off type events.

I agree wholeheartedly and am working to account for all of that.

I’ve talked to a few folks about the concept and they’ve been very interested in trying it out. So I think some of the lack of competitiveness also stems from not knowing how/where to compete. That doesnt fix inexperienced ROs or other issues though.

I’m hoping to limit the gear race as well. I’m open to suggestions on how to do that without flat out saying gamers ain’t welcome.

 

[Emerson0311]

I agree wholeheartedly and am working to account for all of that.

I’ve talked to a few folks about the concept and they’ve been very interested in trying it out. So I think some of the lack of competitiveness also stems from not knowing how/where to compete. That doesnt fix inexperienced ROs or other issues though.

I’m hoping to limit the gear race as well. I’m open to suggestions on how to do that without flat out saying gamers ain’t welcome.

Locally I find most hunters are not interested in competition because they have built a secure persona around their experience. A new game makes them feel insecure. Also, many of them will spend big $$ on another new rifle , but refuse to spend more than $500 on an optic.

 

[R_A_W]

I’m hoping to limit the gear race as well. I’m open to suggestions on how to do that without flat out saying gamers ain’t welcome.

Difficult to cater to both, honestly. Make targets easy to find & range. Place targets where there’s a backstop to see misses, don’t skyline targets. Don’t set up shooting positions where a triple pull or $1000 tripod is a huge advantage. Avoid shooting positions off something a Fudd would consider ridiculous. Blind stages will keep the new guys from seeing gamers do stuff like tripod rear. Have someone coach new shooters off to the side before the match on rules, workflow, time management, glassing, corrections, etc.

A new game makes them feel insecure.

I’ve had experienced hunters tell me how discouraged they were halfway through a NRL Hunter match, but most first-timers acknowledge they “didn’t know what they didn’t know”, recognize the utility, & are interested in getting better.

 

[Emerson0311]

Difficult to cater to both, honestly. Make targets easy to find & range. Place targets where there’s a backstop to see misses, don’t skyline targets. Don’t set up shooting positions where a triple pull or $1000 tripod is a huge advantage. Avoid shooting positions off something a Fudd would consider ridiculous. Blind stages will keep the new guys from seeing gamers do stuff like tripod rear. Have someone coach new shooters off to the side before the match on rules, workflow, time management, glassing, corrections, etc.


I’ve had experienced hunters tell me how discouraged they were halfway through a NRL Hunter match, but most first-timers acknowledge they “didn’t know what they didn’t know”, recognize the utility, & are interested in getting better.

Just this weekend I was with hunter who was hitting at 200 with a 22LR for the first time. He was shocked that it was possible.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

I really would like to host a 22PRS or 22NRL+ match. However, knowing the equipment needed and the experienced range officers needed, is an idea killer.

I hosted IHMSA matches in the 2000’s. Much less equipment involved, self scoring, it the animal silhouette falls off the stand its a hit, if it does not its a mess whether the shooter hit the target or not. Very little cheating, because everyone along the line can see if your silhouettes fell off the rail. In all the years I only saw two legitimate cheats. Both were fellows so old, they were hardly competitive and probably deserved the help just to keep them shooting.

In days where inflation wasn’t nearly as high, Me, my Brenda and two friends, Charlie and Philip Braud worked the entire spring rebuilding a totally neglected range. Junk was everywhere. A fire destroyed much of the structures. Then, I spent $1500 to hold the match including much of what has been listed above. and had 22 shooters, at $10.00 per shooter. Then paid out a $100.00 to each of my two target setters, it’s a hard, hard job and they deserved it. Spent $1700 + $2.00 per shooter, and took in $220.00.

The best part, people who were too lazy all the years the range was neglected to even empty the garbage cans, demanded their share of the profits of the match.

The next matches were not quite as expensive, but still, Brenda and I never even came close to breaking even. and Rural areas are rural areas, I find it a wonder that Altus and Prince can fill up their matches, but these are the times of Precision Rifle, Enjoy these times because times can be fleeting.

 

[Dot3]

I’ve had experienced hunters tell me how discouraged they were halfway through a NRL Hunter match, but most first-timers acknowledge they “didn’t know what they didn’t know”, recognize the utility, & are interested in getting better.

I’m hoping to highlight the utility of something like this as a way of generating some interest. Sell it as being a low stress, low stakes opportunity to test yourself. It will be fuddtastic for sure. I will have to cater to the Tasco 3-9 and Core-lokt crowd.

20-25 years ago a nearby volunteer fire dept. hosted a match to 400 yards. 2 shots on paper at each yard line, 8 rounds total. The first year, they had benches up on a flatbed and it drew a pretty good crowd. The next year, they had box stands, eliminating folks’ heavy bull bags. Interest tanked and they didn’t do the match anymore. So that’s discouraging.

Idk. It’s a shame, as I think it could really help the local crowd become better hunters by pushing their limits when the consequences of a bad shot are nil. It could push them to actually shoot their rifle instead of tossing it in the safe for the rest of the year. But that requires effort and some folks don’t like much effort

 

[Mr. F]

I think trying to build a match around having the leading-edge gear like triple/double pulls or high-end tripods outlawed is not the right approach.

Not to mention designing the match around making the employment of this type of gear unlikely, is next to impossible. Thats the point in itself of getting such gear that allows the shooter to turn a seeming extremely hard shooting position into a good chance of getting stable and high percentage of hitting a target.

Now, yes, it's real hard to make a match worth it to someone with some experience looking for a challenge but also entertaining to the newcomer. You need both to succeed.

Heres an idea, different target sets per stage for the different experience levels. It's a lot more work granted, but you re newer shooters will get 3-3.5 MOA targets and then you make a 2 to 3 set for the guys that have experience already. If im not mistaken the GAP Grind incorporates something similar? But i might be wrong.

You want the new guys coming back, getting better gear and improving and the more experienced guys coming back for the challenge. Also, within a year your new guys will be experienced, give them something to work for and stay.

"Gamer gear" is just good gear if its reliable. The whole gamer thing is made up.