So I am looking for an Accuracy international rifle. Is there an accuracy difference between the round action ae mk versions and the ax,at etc versions? Been looking hard at the Ae mk series but curious if I should stay away from them.
Vintage AI rifle or modern AI rifle?
- Thread starter Mj30wilson900
- Start date
- Nov 3, 2010
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- 22,970
Vintage in OD is the only way to go. Just my poors opinion cause I’ll never own one
Like AW vintage
Like AW vintage
I do like the old school look but nervous about the old actions.
Zero reason to be nervous about any AI, regardless of model, the newer ones just have more features. The AE’s are fine. The Mk1 has a proprietary single stack 5 rd magazine. The Mk2 uses aics magazines. The mk 3 has aics mags and a AW bolt (3 position safety). The best deal by far is the AT though. Think of it as a AW with the addition of a quick-loc barrel change system, for equal or less money. 2014 and later AT’s have a small firing pin, which is better for small primer high pressure loads (6 or 6.5 CM using SRP brass for example).
AW’s have shot up in price lately.
if only AI would reintroduce the vintage/retro chassis looks. And Make Left handed versions!!!
I was hoping a Ae owner would chime in wanting to rid themselves of the burden of such a rifle. Seems the amount of owners holding tight their AI rifles lately has risen. Not much for the used market.
I personally would go for the AT. Unless you came across a steal of a deal on the AE. If only for these reasons
1) quickloc- basically an AW with a quick barrel change. A single screw and hex wrench to change barrels. So you can run 308/260/6.5 etc much easier
2) Small firing pin bolts. If you stick with a 2015 or later AT (or buy a bolt on its own later in SFP) you can run the higher pressure rounds and not have issues associated with the large firing pins
3) This is where I think it makes a huge difference….the magazines. The AW double stack mag is the best on the market. It’s so good even modern aftermarket actions are cutting for them but struggle to make them feed properly due to bolt head designs and chassis issues
To me the only vintage I’d want is the AW.
The AT actions are flat bottom and bonded to the chassis as well
The AT’s were discontinued and the only AI’s available new now are ATXC at $6500 and AXSR at $11,000. The amount of AT’s floating in the wild has dropped a bit lately and the price has crept up.
I paid $3000 for my green AT and $3300 for my fde one. Of course I wouldn’t sell them for that low now. (They’re not for sale fyi) but AE were typically upper $2k area around the same time frame. The upgrade for the AT was well worth it
A little AI porn for you while you search
1) quickloc- basically an AW with a quick barrel change. A single screw and hex wrench to change barrels. So you can run 308/260/6.5 etc much easier
2) Small firing pin bolts. If you stick with a 2015 or later AT (or buy a bolt on its own later in SFP) you can run the higher pressure rounds and not have issues associated with the large firing pins
3) This is where I think it makes a huge difference….the magazines. The AW double stack mag is the best on the market. It’s so good even modern aftermarket actions are cutting for them but struggle to make them feed properly due to bolt head designs and chassis issues
To me the only vintage I’d want is the AW.
The AT actions are flat bottom and bonded to the chassis as well
The AT’s were discontinued and the only AI’s available new now are ATXC at $6500 and AXSR at $11,000. The amount of AT’s floating in the wild has dropped a bit lately and the price has crept up.
I paid $3000 for my green AT and $3300 for my fde one. Of course I wouldn’t sell them for that low now. (They’re not for sale fyi) but AE were typically upper $2k area around the same time frame. The upgrade for the AT was well worth it
A little AI porn for you while you search
If you do buy an AE don't pay AT price for it. The AE model was introduced in hopes of selling to law enforcement agencies with small budgets.
For just a bit more you can have the AT, which is a no brainer.
AT is by far the best buy with the most bang for your buck in terms of features like a few have already mentioned above in detail. Keep an eye out for a SFP AT and I bet you can still snag one for around $4K if not a touch more.
Having owned AWs & ATs (multiple of each) I truly love the AW 2.0 so very much, but honestly the AT is a better rifle (because of the Quicklock barrel system) at a MUCH better price these days. Damn I wish I had kept the AWs I had. I could buy an AT, PMII, & a small truck load of ammo and extra barrels if I sold them today…
I bought an AT with the plan being to have it replace my AE. After shooting both of them I don’t think I’ll be selling my AE though, I like the trigger better.
There may be a bit of personal bias/nostalgia playing into the decision since it was my first rifle but it does have some things going for it. The price of the older AI models in comparison to the AT blows my mind a bit though.
There may be a bit of personal bias/nostalgia playing into the decision since it was my first rifle but it does have some things going for it. The price of the older AI models in comparison to the AT blows my mind a bit though.
What is a sfp at?
I would t mind paying up just finding one seems to be the biggest issue right now.
Small firing pin. Many older AI have the firing pin hole bushed to a smaller size. Primer issues arose with higher pressure rounds than the original .308.
Small Firing Pin. And like @Downtown suggested, you can have an older LFP bushed to reduce it to a SFP, I had that done on my 2012 AX.
These rifles tend to pop up for sale in waves, just keep a look out in the PX and you’ll find one for sale soon enough.
The last AE MK1 I saw listed for sale was about $2700 came with the action wrench and 2 or 3 barrels. This was about 2 months ago on another forum. For about $1,200-$1,500 more you can have the AT which as everyone has said is the "improved" version for several reasons.
I have a ae mk3(bought new in 2013 for 3700, folder fde and tooley 6.5creed), ae mk2 that I bought for 1700, had an ax mk1, had another ae mk3, and had a 2016 at. The ae's all had better triggers and smoother bolt throws and cocking than the ax or at, at was the worst on bolt feel and trigger. The aics mag is most reliable with br based cases, seems like the at/aw mag works great with 308 and creedmoor based cases but need to some fiddling with shorter cases(not always) to run smooth. I still have my 2 he's don't plan on selling them, even if market was 5k on them. Og ai poors porn....
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That is pretty cool. How much you estimate is it worth?
How did you train your dog to lay by your gun for color comparisons?I have a ae mk3(bought new in 2013 for 3700, folder fde and tooley 6.5creed), ae mk2 that I bought for 1700, had an ax mk1, had another ae mk3, and had a 2016 at. The ae's all had better triggers and smoother bolt throws and cocking than the ax or at, at was the worst on bolt feel and trigger. The aics mag is most reliable with br based cases, seems like the at/aw mag works great with 308 and creedmoor based cases but need to some fiddling with shorter cases(not always) to run smooth. I still have my 2 he's don't plan on selling them, even if market was 5k on them. Og ai poors porn....View attachment 8666273View attachment 8666274groups from ae mk3 with tooley barrel, shot off bipod and rear bag on gravel. 1st rd in bottom left group was gun settling into gravel, I should have dug in better for first shot. Ai's shoot good regardless of current or past. I can change barrels on my ae's in 15 minutes, but it does take 2 torque wrenches, barrel vise, and action wrench. View attachment 8666277
Priceless. I have a prototype and some other similar examples too. They will never be for sale.
Whidden Gunworks has a 10 year newer AI target rifle, from the later Coopermatch Series which uses AWM boltheads and AWM lockrings (6 lugs), for $6490, so that could be a guideline.
Great infoI have a ae mk3(bought new in 2013 for 3700, folder fde and tooley 6.5creed), ae mk2 that I bought for 1700, had an ax mk1, had another ae mk3, and had a 2016 at. The ae's all had better triggers and smoother bolt throws and cocking than the ax or at, at was the worst on bolt feel and trigger. The aics mag is most reliable with br based cases, seems like the at/aw mag works great with 308 and creedmoor based cases but need to some fiddling with shorter cases(not always) to run smooth. I still have my 2 he's don't plan on selling them, even if market was 5k on them. Og ai poors porn....View attachment 8666273View attachment 8666274groups from ae mk3 with tooley barrel, shot off bipod and rear bag on gravel. 1st rd in bottom left group was gun settling into gravel, I should have dug in better for first shot. Ai's shoot good regardless of current or past. I can change barrels on my ae's in 15 minutes, but it does take 2 torque wrenches, barrel vise, and action wrench. View attachment 8666277
I’ve heard the same about the triggers
If you think the AE bolt throw is something to brag about vs the AT you should check out the new actions especially the ATX. My ATX was a stupid amount of lift compared to my AT’s
The AE isn’t a bad rifle by any means. If the price is right it’s a good option. If you’re wanting to run a 308 barrel to 10,000 rounds and only shoot a little bit then most of the things like quickloc and SFP won’t matter that much anyways
I stand by my AW vs AICS mag comment though when it comes to standard 308/260/6.5 type cartridges. Compact, smoother in my experience vs AICS setups and can load with the mag in the rifle which I do as well.
My buddies 300 WM AICS 10 rounder looks like an AK mag next to my 10 round AW
AIs have a few parts that need timing well from factory to get a nice bolt throw. Bolt lugs to lock ring fit and cocking piece to trigger sear fit (also safety cam to cocking piece fit). If you look at the cocking piece of an AI, they should have a number engraved on them. They indicate different sizes to account for tolerance stacking on bolt lugs and lockring.
I feel that they've not taken as much attention to this in modern production rifles because I recently got two new AW SFP bolts and they both feel terrible when closing and opening. When closing the new bolts, there are 3-4 notchy sections that I need to overcome from the various contact surfaces engaging. I'll probably ask to get this changed over after Easter as these things aren't cheap.
I feel that they've not taken as much attention to this in modern production rifles because I recently got two new AW SFP bolts and they both feel terrible when closing and opening. When closing the new bolts, there are 3-4 notchy sections that I need to overcome from the various contact surfaces engaging. I'll probably ask to get this changed over after Easter as these things aren't cheap.
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The AE MK3 is a good rifle and will work very well and give you a long service life.
That being said, it's not "collectable" and probably won't ever really be, so there is no point paying a large premium for one if you can get a good deal on one of the newer AT rifles.
At the same pricing or similar, it would be better to go with the newer AT or similar over the AE series.
The AW, especially the AW 2.0 is what is truly collectable and while some of the hoi poi downplay them, they are exceptionally well made rifles that perform superbly long term. They will also hold their collector value for a long time due to the scarcity of them. (The AWSM 2.0 has started taking off in value as well).
Some folks try to talk them down because "well no quick barrel change or this modern gamer thing or that other cool thing" but for what they are designed for, they are very good. Take a look at the rifles from TacOps, they are about as "old school" type as you get, but when lives are on the line, it's one of the rifles that are well trusted.
Sure the quick barrel change stuff is all tacticool and such and maybe some people actually use that.
But if this is a rifle you will bet your life on or the lives of those you care about on or your career on, what is more important to you? A quick change barrel system that you may or may not use hardly ever, or a rifle that you can count on to come out of the safe after who knows how long, and put the bullet at the exact point of aim, the first shot and all the rest of the follow up shots?
It doesn't sound like you have the money for a collectable AW rifle, so my advice would be to get one of the newer AT or similar rifles and a great price and enjoy them a lot.
If a smoking good deal shows up on an AE MK3, there would be nothing wrong with picking it up & you'd be pretty happy with it.
I do have a at-x gen 3 and the safety is hard to move. Not a single finger affair. Anyway to get inside to line the internals?
Nothing to do with aligning the internals. You need a replacement part if you want it to be easier to actuate. The cam inside the shroud that pulls the firing pin back is available in 5 different sizes to account for tolerances in the other parts. Usually it's to ensure the firing pin drawback is sufficient, but looks like it can also adjust for the heaviness. The ones I got on my two brand new bolts don't even work
Yea that is why I was going to try to lube it up and work it in. Is the part orderable or do I have to send it off?Nothing to do with aligning the internals. You need a replacement part if you want it to be easier to actuate. The cam inside the shroud that pulls the firing pin back is available in 5 different sizes to account for tolerances in the other parts. Usually it's to ensure the firing pin drawback is sufficient, but looks like it can also adjust for the heaviness. The ones I got on my two brand new bolts don't even work
To be honest I have no idea. All I know is that there are different sizes available because the cocking pieces on my Coopermatches all have different numbers, and when I got my new AW bolts and realised they were a bit janky, I later found out in a maintenance manual that I have, that there are different sizes. I'll probably just go back to the dealer that ordered these for me and ask to swap the parts out free of charge as my bolts don't actually work as intended.
You'd probably have to send it off so they can match the right one for your bolt.
I can try and get the part number, but I don't have an optical drive to read the DVD with the parts list on it.
It's the thing below FYI.
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You got two brand new bolts and the safeties don’t work on either…???The ones I got on my two brand new bolts don't even work
I'm probably weird, but I prefer the safety on my ae mk2 better than my mk3. Also had both bolts bushed by lri.
Dood, my son has rifles that shoot fine that are from the late 1800’s to very early 1900’s.
Like this 30-40 Krag from ~1892. And he isn’t some gunsmith either.
(Pic from Wikipedia)
Old janky shotguns make me more nervous, perhaps undeservedly so. I don’t know much about shotguns.
But an older AI action is gonna be fine.
I personally would go for the AT. Unless you came across a steal of a deal on the AE. If only for these reasons
1) quickloc- basically an AW with a quick barrel change. A single screw and hex wrench to change barrels. So you can run 308/260/6.5 etc much easier
2) Small firing pin bolts. If you stick with a 2015 or later AT (or buy a bolt on its own later in SFP) you can run the higher pressure rounds and not have issues associated with the large firing pins
3) This is where I think it makes a huge difference….the magazines. The AW double stack mag is the best on the market. It’s so good even modern aftermarket actions are cutting for them but struggle to make them feed properly due to bolt head designs and chassis issues
To me the only vintage I’d want is the AW.
The AT actions are flat bottom and bonded to the chassis as well
The AT’s were discontinued and the only AI’s available new now are ATXC at $6500 and AXSR at $11,000. The amount of AT’s floating in the wild has dropped a bit lately and the price has crept up.
I paid $3000 for my green AT and $3300 for my fde one. Of course I wouldn’t sell them for that low now. (They’re not for sale fyi) but AE were typically upper $2k area around the same time frame. The upgrade for the AT was well worth it
A little AI porn for you while you search
View attachment 8665185View attachment 8665186
Some “classic” images my memory often references.
1. Left Handed Models
2. Arctic Warfare Super Magnum Thumbhole Stock Form Factor
3. Magnum Action Length
4. Quickloc Barrel Changes
5. Three - Position Safety
6. Small Firing Pin (not sure how this figures for magnums)
7. Short Action Conversion Options
- Bolt and Throw Limiter
- Drop - in Magazine Wells OR Plastic Magazine Inserts
Though it’s never truly bothered me, I prefer the older Thumbhole Stock design - the newer layout just looks a little anorexic.
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